Roses forum: Rose bushes keep dying when planted in the same location.

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Toronto Ohio
Lyndaglenn7
Jul 22, 2020 5:03 AM CST
I am in Southeast Ohio and have a virgin Mary mound in front of a small pond. For over 12 years, I had Yellow rosebush on each side of the Virgin Mary. A few years ago the rose bush on the right suddenly died. Since then I have Planted a very small rose ($10-15) in the same spot TWICE. Both times, the rose bush died within a week. The second time I even put A lot of new soil in the area and Buried some rusty metal (iron) But the second plant even died Within a week. The rose on the left side of the virgin Mary Seems fine since I planted it
There over a year ago (even though it's only bloomed one time this summer).I recently purchased a new rosebush, much bigger this time ($25), and it's been doing well in the planter I bought it in three weeks ago; however, I really need to get it Planet and the location I desire.. I am fearful of putting it in the location desired because it will probably die again. Really need suggestions! Please please help!
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[Last edited by Lyndaglenn7 - Jul 24, 2020 5:58 AM (+)]
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Minnesota (Zone 3b)
RpR
Jul 22, 2020 10:55 AM CST
Replace a lot of the old soil with bagged soil containing manure and compost with complete with fertilizer.

Dig out a 16x16 hole and put the new dirt in the hole.

Do not know what killed the rose bush but it is still there unless you remove a lot of soil.

I would also take two inches of soil off of the whole bed and put mulch on top; I use Cocoa Bean Hulls as they also have a small fertilizing effect.
[Last edited by RpR - Jul 22, 2020 10:58 AM (+)]
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Falls Church, VA
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tantefrancine
Jul 24, 2020 10:50 AM CST
I am not an expert, but several people AND articles had warned me to NEVER plant roses in the same hole that another rose had used for a long time, unless you take all the soil out and replace it completely with new soil. So if you had dug out 24 x 24 inches of hole when you had first planted the original rose, you would have to take all the soil out and put new soil in, so the new rose will be happy. Your story proofs that it is true what I have read and heard. The rose wants to live in a completely new home, or a complete renovated home in the same location!
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member Dog Lover Cat Lover Keeper of Poultry Keeps Horses I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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porkpal
Jul 24, 2020 11:20 AM CST
What is under this raised bed? Does it have good drainage? If not the rose may have drowned.
Porkpal
Name: Mike Stewart
Lower Hudson Valley, New York (Zone 6b)
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Mike
Jul 24, 2020 12:43 PM CST
Does the water in the pond cause the soil in the block enclosure to be perpetually wet or overly moist? Although roses need regular watering, the soil needs to have very good drainage so that it can dry out some between waterings. A large rose with a lot of leaves may be able to survive "wet feet" (although it probably wouldn't thrive), but smaller roses could easily die off in continuously wet soil.

[Last edited by Mike - Jul 24, 2020 12:46 PM (+)]
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Name: Lola
Tasmania
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LolaTasmania
Jul 24, 2020 4:05 PM CST
Instead of planting another rose in there, which will compete with the established one for root space, just untie a cane or two from the healthy one and bend it over to the other side and tie it to the other trellis. It will still look great and you don't have to worry about losing more roses.
SW Ohio River Valley (Zone 6b)
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vaporvac
Jul 24, 2020 4:51 PM CST
Yes! That's a great idea. The real question is why the original rose died. Without knowing that we're just guessing. I'd always read we don't have Rose Replant Disease here in the States so there must be something else in the soil or drainage that's changed, causing the die-off as suggested above. If the rose died of gall, that could have infected the soil and remains active unless it's entirely removed. In that case, it's probably best to plant something else there and train the current rose to grow on that side.
Name: seil
St Clair Shores, MI (Zone 6a)
Roses Garden Photography Region: Michigan
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seilMI
Jul 24, 2020 5:03 PM CST
What Mike said. I'm thinking it's not draining properly. And it's entirely possible that the one side is wetter than the other so one rose is OK and the other dies off. Dig your hole and then do a drainage test. fill the hole to the top with water and walk away for an hour. If there is still a lot of water in the hole when you come back there is not good drainage. Either dig deeper or create a small french drain for the excess water.

Tantefrancine, that is called rose replant syndrome and it is really not a problem in the USA. They do have some problems with this in Europe but not here. If it were I'd have no roses, lol! I have a small yard and have had over 300 roses at one point. I ALWAYS reuse my holes! And I NEVER replace all the soil.

Lola, I was think a pretty clematis on the other side. A deep purple would be beautiful with that yellow rose!
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member Dog Lover Cat Lover Keeper of Poultry Keeps Horses I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Plant Identifier Raises cows Roses Farmer Celebrating Gardening: 2015
porkpal
Jul 24, 2020 6:24 PM CST
If this bed is actually in a pond, I don't see how there can be proper drainage.
Porkpal
Tuscany, Italy
bart2018
Jul 25, 2020 4:42 AM CST
First of all, I love your little shrine. Second, there's a lot of good comments made by other members; all I can add are a few random comments. Rose replant disease is a very mysterious sindrome,as far as I know,they still don't know what actually causes it. I very often read that over in the USA this doesn't exist...BUT??? Here in Europe, I gather it is supposedly very bad in England, or maybe the UK, and less bad here in Italy. I base this statment on the comments made by nurseries in the two countries ; an English nursery said: if you must replant a rose where another has grown, replace all the soil,and add lots of organic matter,mychrorizza, and best of all, plant the new rose in a cardboard box placed inside the hole, with new soil inside the box, so the new roses' roots will be protected from the surrounding soil for the first year or so...I forget what else. The Italian attitude is more laid back: if you must replace, dig your new hole next to the old one,the new hole with new soil doesn't have to be quite so big (18 x 18 inches),etc. A Dutch nursery basically said just add about a wheelbarrow -full of new soil. The fact is whenever I dig out an established rose, I always tend to have a big hole remaining anyway,so I would be replacing the soil in any case. However, I do have an instance in my garden where even taking the extreme precautions does not seem to have worked ; the "new" rose has been ther for years now, but refuses to flourish, so I plan to dig it out in the fall and put something else-not a rose-in that spot.
Minnesota (Zone 3b)
RpR
Jul 25, 2020 6:55 PM CST
I have had roses , newly planted, a lot not just here and there, die in the same year..

Was it that rose disease, do not know, but in the same area, this year I planted a lot of new roses but I did replace all the soil and in this case I used mostly bagged manure and compost already containing fertilizer, plus I treated the plants and soil with bio fungicide.

This year they are all doing real well.
Name: Margie
NY (Zone 7a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
MargieNY
Aug 29, 2020 7:12 PM CST
This article is about replant disease and how German Nurseries are coping with this problem.
https://www.rose.org/single-po...

This article deals with how biofumigation can limit bacteria and fungi.
https://dicoagroecologie.fr/en...

The last article is a study comparing the usage of Raphanus sativus - radish and tagetes patula - French marigold etc.
https://www.frontiersin.org/ar...

A big shout-out to the nurseries for attempting to improve their existing soil replant disease problem organically.
My roses have given me so much enjoyment. I feel a responsibility to give back by maintaining fertile soil through good replenishment management.
Observe, observe, observe
Name: aka Annie
Tacoma-ish rural (Zone 7b)
Sandsock
Sep 16, 2020 10:30 AM CST
There is a guy in Canada owner of Select Roses that talks about rose replant disease, so if he has it in Canada, we might have it too (at least the north US). He has a video on you tube, can't remember what it is called...he has several really informative ones.

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