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Jul 31, 2020 10:27 AM CST
Romania, Mures (Zone 6b)
Region: Europe Roses Sedums Sempervivums
Which are the most popular old roses? What do you have if you have any old rose?

At first I started with 'Ispahan', 'Fantin Latour', 'Blanchefleur'. I even got some like 'Belle Isis' But never got the change to plant it.
Now I think of getting 'Henri Martin'. Or 'York and Lancaster', flowers seems so nice, I am not sure about the overall growth rabbit of the canes.




'
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Jul 31, 2020 2:20 PM CST
Coastal Southern California (Zone 13a)
Paleo -- The "best" for you may be the "worst" for someone else.

A lot depends upon your climate (I think you get some winter, which I don'), soil conditions and the like.

I began by planting three of the most highly-recommended Old Roses, and as it happened, they were the WORST choice for my conditions. I am glad I grew 'Rosa Mundi,' 'Mme. Isaac Pereire', and 'Reine des Violettes' -- but I sure wouldn't want my neighbor to try them. Turned out that Tea Roses are better for me.

Are there any public gardens in your area that include Old Roses?
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Jul 31, 2020 5:48 PM CST
Name: seil
St Clair Shores, MI (Zone 6a)
Garden Photography Region: Michigan Roses
Jeri is right. What I grow here she wouldn't or couldn't and vice versa. She has no winter to speak of so Gallicas won't bloom for her. I get very cold winters so Teas will die here. You really need to find a more local source for information on what would do well for you.

That said, I think the two I have are pretty common simply because they are so widely available. Rose de Rescht is a bright pink Hybrid Perpetual/Portland with a strong fragrance. It does black spot readily. Reine des Violettes is a mauve, also hybrid perpetual, with even more fragrance. It's fairly healthy for me and is completely thornless. Both have good winter hardiness.
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Aug 2, 2020 1:12 PM CST
Romania, Mures (Zone 6b)
Region: Europe Roses Sedums Sempervivums
jerijen said:Paleo -- The "best" for you may be the "worst" for someone else.

A lot depends upon your climate (I think you get some winter, which I don'), soil conditions and the like.

I began by planting three of the most highly-recommended Old Roses, and as it happened, they were the WORST choice for my conditions. I am glad I grew 'Rosa Mundi,' 'Mme. Isaac Pereire', and 'Reine des Violettes' -- but I sure wouldn't want my neighbor to try them. Turned out that Tea Roses are better for me.

Are there any public gardens in your area that include Old Roses?


Definitely no gardens or places where I could see labeled old roses or unlabeled for that matter. So I have to rely on only descriptions, projected growth, photos and what others say.
I can only get experience with my roses in time, I mean obviously years.

I may have had an idea that old roses are popular, buy maybe they are not as popular as new purchases, rather maintaining some old roses.
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Aug 2, 2020 1:21 PM CST
Romania, Mures (Zone 6b)
Region: Europe Roses Sedums Sempervivums
seilMI said:Jeri is right. What I grow here she wouldn't or couldn't and vice versa. She has no winter to speak of so Gallicas won't bloom for her. I get very cold winters so Teas will die here. You really need to find a more local source for information on what would do well for you.

That said, I think the two I have are pretty common simply because they are so widely available. Rose de Rescht is a bright pink Hybrid Perpetual/Portland with a strong fragrance. It does black spot readily. Reine des Violettes is a mauve, also hybrid perpetual, with even more fragrance. It's fairly healthy for me and is completely thornless. Both have good winter hardiness.


I was not really looking for the best, rather the most popular ones as to make an idea what people like.
But yes I understand not everything can grow anywhere so then automatically shifts the popularity based on the enviroment.
I have read online that certain people around here plant Rose de Rescht as a production plant, to make jam for sale, I guess that goes hand it hand with the fragrance you were mentioning.

To be honest what I kind am looking for is mostly some roses than can form bigger shrubs if left unpruned, preferably around the 6 feet height.
Avatar for porkpal
Aug 2, 2020 2:21 PM CST
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX (Zone 9a)
Cat Lover Charter ATP Member Keeper of Poultry I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Dog Lover Keeps Horses
Roses Plant Identifier Farmer Raises cows Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Garden Ideas: Level 2
Can you tell us what your climate is like? Some roses need cold winters, others thrive in the heat.
Porkpal
Avatar for fisherwoman
Aug 2, 2020 5:15 PM CST

Something that is fun to do is look at what the antique rose nurseries offer and read the descriptions ;
Antique Rose Emporium
Rose Petals Nursery
Angel Gardens
they sometimes tell you their favorites and most popular. You can tell after a while which ones everyone loves- they are always out of stock .
Charles de Mills always sells out early every year at Northland Rosarium.
Souvenir de la Malmaison and Baronne Prevost are very popular.

I loved my Gruss an Aachen but gave it to my mailman that admired it. Sorry I don't have a photo. I also gave away my prized Francis Dubreuil to a good friend .
I hope to buy both again next year.
I was thinking of buying more Old Garden roses because some are so darn healthy and easy to grow in comparison to my newer varieties. All my favorites stay pretty small.
Mons Tillier and Maman Cochet can get really big.
Last edited by fisherwoman Aug 2, 2020 5:27 PM Icon for preview
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Aug 3, 2020 8:26 AM CST
SW Ohio River Valley (Zone 6b)
Judging from your climate, the choice should be wide as you get winter chill, but not super freezing weather and have a warm, but not too hot summer with a moderate amount of rain nicely spaced throughout the year, but much more in the summer. It appears you have high humidity, but it's highest in the winter so I suspect you have high black spot pressure. Do you know what disease pressure is highest for your area? It also looks as if you have good sun hours in the summer. Is this area in the plateau or sub-mountains?
Mures, Romania climate: https://weather-and-climate.co...
I'm wondering if the Appalachia/North Carolina mountains might be analogous.
Last edited by vaporvac Aug 3, 2020 8:27 AM Icon for preview
Avatar for MetteBee_DenmarkZ8
Aug 3, 2020 12:20 PM CST

By chance I came across this user from Romania on Helpmefind.com.
https://www.helpmefind.com/gar...
Maybe his/her rose choices can help you pick some for your garden?
Personally, I love Henri Martin. It can take some shade and in fact glows beautifully under my huge apple tree.
I like the Damasks and I am trying to find space for a fantin Latour and Blush Damask.

Thumb of 2020-08-03/MetteBee_DenmarkZ8/a7971a

Blush Damask at a rose nursery.
Last edited by MetteBee_DenmarkZ8 Aug 3, 2020 12:29 PM Icon for preview
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Aug 3, 2020 12:36 PM CST
Name: Shawn S.
Hampton, Virginia (Zone 8b)
Annuals Butterflies Dahlias Irises Morning Glories Orchids
Peonies Region: United States of America Zinnias
I would second that, with Rose, 'Souvenir de la Malmaison'. Once you get it growing well, it tends to"quarter" up, quite well & appears superbly wonderful. While having nice fragrance.
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Aug 3, 2020 12:44 PM CST
Name: Shawn S.
Hampton, Virginia (Zone 8b)
Annuals Butterflies Dahlias Irises Morning Glories Orchids
Peonies Region: United States of America Zinnias
Have you attempted to do a search of a vendor website, & sort by "most popular" ?
What is also important, is to consider which ones you actually like, the most.
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Aug 4, 2020 4:39 AM CST
Romania, Mures (Zone 6b)
Region: Europe Roses Sedums Sempervivums
I kind of wanted to know what everyone likes really, I never said which is the best or which is the best roses to have if you look at the tile or the first post Smiling
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Aug 4, 2020 4:48 AM CST
Romania, Mures (Zone 6b)
Region: Europe Roses Sedums Sempervivums
MetteBee_DenmarkZ8 said:By chance I came across this user from Romania on Helpmefind.com.
https://www.helpmefind.com/gar...
Maybe his/her rose choices can help you pick some for your garden?
Personally, I love Henri Martin. It can take some shade and in fact glows beautifully under my huge apple tree.
I like the Damasks and I am trying to find space for a fantin Latour and Blush Damask.

Thumb of 2020-08-03/MetteBee_DenmarkZ8/a7971a

Blush Damask at a rose nursery.


Henry Martin looks so nice, I had it on my list.


Interesting user from Romania, seems to have lots of roses and old roses also, impressive rose collector, I wonder if is a commercial entity.
Love this image and the caption "gallica hell"

Thumb of 2020-08-04/PaleoTemp/a90fe3
Last edited by PaleoTemp Aug 4, 2020 5:05 AM Icon for preview
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Aug 4, 2020 5:04 AM CST
Romania, Mures (Zone 6b)
Region: Europe Roses Sedums Sempervivums
vaporvac said:Judging from your climate, the choice should be wide as you get winter chill, but not super freezing weather and have a warm, but not too hot summer with a moderate amount of rain nicely spaced throughout the year, but much more in the summer. It appears you have high humidity, but it's highest in the winter so I suspect you have high black spot pressure. Do you know what disease pressure is highest for your area? It also looks as if you have good sun hours in the summer. Is this area in the plateau or sub-mountains?
Mures, Romania climate: https://weather-and-climate.co...
I'm wondering if the Appalachia/North Carolina mountains might be analogous.


There's more than one type of area around here, there are flat fields in some areas, hills in other, and even sub-mountains in other areas.
Currently I have some roses in a flat area.
Lots of fungal issues, each year black spot for sure, some brown rust also occasionally, powdery mildew occasionally.
Unfortunately without the use of anti-fungal substances things are ultra bad, especially since for example big wallnut trees get infected and just spread infected leaves are everywhere.
For a long time my folk kept taking these leaves and spreading them intentionally around the garden to fertilize the soil, which has made the place a hot bed for fungal infections year after year.

Humidity is high in the winter for sure, even if this year for example barely was any snow or rain in the winter, as in precipitations.
Avatar for JohnM99
Aug 4, 2020 11:24 AM CST

Some of favourites are -
- The once flowering climbing / scrambling /rambling roses
- The recurrent flowering OGRs - Bourbon and Portland especially, and some Hybrid Perptuals

Climbers include Francois Juranville, Paul's Himalayan Musk, Albertine, Meg, Cl Souvenir de la Malmaison, Felicite Pertue, etc. and many other climber/ramblers
Rose de Rescht, Comte de Chambord, Mme Isaac Pereire are some of my favourites, too, although you do need really look after Mme Isaac Pereire well....

And, some that are old but not technically OGR, such as some of the early climbing HT - Mme. Gregoire Stachelin - is absolutely stunning when in the middle of its one bloom cycle....

They all have different things I like about them. I still really like some of the best modern roses, and really admire Kordes health - they really are robust. But, I will take a few small blooms of Rose de Rescht over a giant bloom of Parole any day..
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Aug 7, 2020 9:38 AM CST
Name: Vicky Thompson
Michigan (Zone 5b)
Sempervivums Roses Charter ATP Member Peonies Region: Michigan Lilies
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Farmer Cottage Gardener Enjoys or suffers cold winters Annuals Daylilies
Any Alba, Charles de Mills has stunningly beautiful blossoms, Belle de Crecy for the color, Russell's Cottage Rose for massive display. These are a few of my favorites...but it's like asking someone which is your favorite child. Lovey dubby
"I'd rather have roses on my table than diamonds on my neck"
Cottage Rose Birds n' Blossoms

Last edited by Cottage_Rose Aug 7, 2020 11:09 AM Icon for preview
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Aug 7, 2020 9:41 AM CST
Name: Vicky Thompson
Michigan (Zone 5b)
Sempervivums Roses Charter ATP Member Peonies Region: Michigan Lilies
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Farmer Cottage Gardener Enjoys or suffers cold winters Annuals Daylilies
Oh and 20 years later the mentioned roses are still going strong for me. We trimmed Russell's Cottage Rose with a chain saw last year. nodding
"I'd rather have roses on my table than diamonds on my neck"
Cottage Rose Birds n' Blossoms

Avatar for schrammd
Aug 8, 2020 6:02 PM CST

Cottage Rose--

The use of a chain saw on your Russelliana (your rose's other name) was brave, especially given that chain saws don't always cut cleanly and can leave ripped or jagged ends on cut canes which invite pests and disease.

On the other hand, an experiment in England several years ago used three different pruning methods on three rows of the same kind of rose: simple clippers, a chain saw, and nothing (a row left unpruned). When the flowers bloomed the following spring, all were equally profuse and beautiful and healthy. Who knew?
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Aug 9, 2020 11:44 AM CST
Name: Vicky Thompson
Michigan (Zone 5b)
Sempervivums Roses Charter ATP Member Peonies Region: Michigan Lilies
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Farmer Cottage Gardener Enjoys or suffers cold winters Annuals Daylilies
schrammd said:Cottage Rose--

The use of a chain saw on your Russelliana (your rose's other name) was brave, especially given that chain saws don't always cut cleanly and can leave ripped or jagged ends on cut canes which invite pests and disease.

On the other hand, an experiment in England several years ago used three different pruning methods on three rows of the same kind of rose: simple clippers, a chain saw, and nothing (a row left unpruned). When the flowers bloomed the following spring, all were equally profuse and beautiful and healthy. Who knew?


I simply don't have the time to snip each cane on these monster shrub roses buy we mostly cut dead wood. These ramblers are hard to kill and besides its survival of the fittest around here and if it needs babysitting I don't want it. Hilarious!
"I'd rather have roses on my table than diamonds on my neck"
Cottage Rose Birds n' Blossoms

Avatar for schrammd
Aug 10, 2020 10:30 AM CST

I'm with you there. I inherited a few roses and was given a couple, all of which demand babysitting, but I think it's time I shovel-pruned them.

On the other hand, for the first time in 10 to 20 years, I've had a few roses that did not bloom at all this spring and summer--'Belle de Crecy' for one. I'm thinking the ground has warmed somewhat with climate change. (I'm in California, 30 miles NE of San Francisco.) Belle de Crecy is a gallica hybrid, and gallicas need cold winters; maybe it just didn't get cold enough, though I don't think this past winter was much different than others. Has anyone else had this problem?
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