Hoyas forum: A hoya conundrum...

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Name: cheapskate gardener
South Florida (Zone 10a)
Container Gardener Foliage Fan Frugal Gardener Cactus and Succulents Tropicals
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hlutzow
Aug 11, 2020 2:33 PM CST
So, a friend of mine recently found herself a new hoya the Home Depot near her home. She sent me cuttings and they arrived today. It is an Exotic Angel plant and the label calls it Hoya bilobata (Hoya DS-70).

I vaguely remembered there being some sort of confusion between Hoya bilobata, Hoya tsangii, Hoya burtoniae, and Hoya DS-70. Judging by just the Google picture results, I wouldn't be able to tell them apart and we all know that Costa Farms isn't even remotely a trustworthy source for plant identification.

My friend had this plant a grand total of 2 days before she packed up the cuttings, so neither of us have any clue what the stress coloring would look like, or if this plant even has stress coloration. Mature leaves are more oval than elongated in shape, firm, and smooth in texture. The new leaves are paler green than the mature growth, pliable, and velvety in texture.

Thumb of 2020-08-11/hlutzow/fd5ceb
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I did see a page on Vermont Hoyas that mentioned the Hoya DS-70 was now called Hoya burtoniae, but the Catalogue of Life does not mention any synonyms for that name. It also does not mention any synonyms for H. bilobata and H. tsangii is also known as H. angustifolia. The Catalogue of Life does not even have an entry for Hoya DS-70 that I know.

So, anyone have any information to help untangle this mess?
What's the difference? Are they all the same plant?
Keep calm... and plant something.
Name: Lin Vosbury
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)

Region: United States of America Deer Region: Florida Charter ATP Member Million Pollinator Garden Challenge I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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plantladylin
Aug 11, 2020 6:04 PM CST
The Catalogue of Life lists plant species only. Hoya 'DS-70' is a cultivar, which is why you didn't find it listed. I wonder if anyone knows the parentage of 'DS-70'?

Years ago I had all three and the leaves and flowers of all of them were so similar that I could never tell them apart! I always wondered if 'DS-70' was actually a legitimate name.
Wax Plant (Hoya 'DS-70'),
Wax Plant (Hoya bilobata)
Wax Plant (Hoya tsangii)
~ I'm an old gal who still loves playing in the dirt!
~ Playing in the dirt is my therapy ... and I'm in therapy a lot!


Name: cheapskate gardener
South Florida (Zone 10a)
Container Gardener Foliage Fan Frugal Gardener Cactus and Succulents Tropicals
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hlutzow
Aug 11, 2020 7:13 PM CST
plantladylin said:The Catalogue of Life lists plant species only. Hoya 'DS-70' is a cultivar, which is why you didn't find it listed. I wonder if anyone knows the parentage of 'DS-70'?

Years ago I had all three and the leaves and flowers of all of them were so similar that I could never tell them apart! I always wondered if 'DS-70' was actually a legitimate name.
Wax Plant (Hoya 'DS-70'),
Wax Plant (Hoya bilobata)
Wax Plant (Hoya tsangii)


That was one thing I wondering, cultivar or species. At least I'm not alone in the confusion. Thanks!
Keep calm... and plant something.
Name: Peggy
SW Oklahoma (Zone 7b)
Magpie26
Aug 12, 2020 6:32 AM CST

Thumb of 2020-08-12/Magpie26/b92ba2

This is my DS 70/Bilobata from Costa Farms. It has been on my east porch since April. Morning sun gets intense but then it's gone. I have a Tsangii from Violet Barn but it's not doing well . The leaves look the same. No flowers yet to help identify.
Name: Peggy
SW Oklahoma (Zone 7b)
Magpie26
Aug 12, 2020 6:33 AM CST

Thumb of 2020-08-12/Magpie26/ea842c

Here's another.
Name: cheapskate gardener
South Florida (Zone 10a)
Container Gardener Foliage Fan Frugal Gardener Cactus and Succulents Tropicals
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hlutzow
Aug 12, 2020 7:25 AM CST
It's nice and full. Beautiful hoya. It's got the same fuzz to the leaves that mine do.
Keep calm... and plant something.
Name: Peggy
SW Oklahoma (Zone 7b)
Magpie26
Aug 12, 2020 4:45 PM CST
Fingers crossed for blooms next year. The leaves do look velvety.
Name: Bonnie Harris
Coeur d' Alene, Idaho (Zone 6a)
Knowledge is love, light is vision.
Dog Lover Irises Plant and/or Seed Trader
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TiaLee
Nov 14, 2020 11:56 AM CST



Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.
[Last edited by TiaLee - Nov 14, 2020 12:05 PM (+)]
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Name: Bonnie Harris
Coeur d' Alene, Idaho (Zone 6a)
Knowledge is love, light is vision.
Dog Lover Irises Plant and/or Seed Trader
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TiaLee
Nov 14, 2020 12:03 PM CST
This is hoya Tsangi.



DS 70 is simply an ascension number in the collection of David Silver. The correct name for that hoya is: sp. aff. burtoniae
Thumb of 2020-11-14/TiaLee/8dd6da

The OP plant looks like hoya bilobata to me, but trust me when I say, I am no expert, just an avid student.
Thumb of 2020-11-14/TiaLee/9b7547

Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.
Name: Bonnie Harris
Coeur d' Alene, Idaho (Zone 6a)
Knowledge is love, light is vision.
Dog Lover Irises Plant and/or Seed Trader
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TiaLee
Nov 14, 2020 12:08 PM CST
Magpie26 said:
Thumb of 2020-08-12/Magpie26/ea842c

Here's another.





Not Tsangi. This is hoya sp aff burtoniae.

This is Tsangi.


Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.
Name: Bonnie Harris
Coeur d' Alene, Idaho (Zone 6a)
Knowledge is love, light is vision.
Dog Lover Irises Plant and/or Seed Trader
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TiaLee
Nov 14, 2020 12:22 PM CST
plantladylin said:The Catalogue of Life lists plant species only. Hoya 'DS-70' is a cultivar, which is why you didn't find it listed. I wonder if anyone knows the parentage of 'DS-70'?

Years ago I had all three and the leaves and flowers of all of them were so similar that I could never tell them apart! I always wondered if 'DS-70' was actually a legitimate name.
Wax Plant (Hoya 'DS-70'),
Wax Plant (Hoya bilobata)
Wax Plant (Hoya tsangii)



I am not an expert, but an avid student. I am only wishing here to help try to keep some hoya names straight, because they are a confusing mess. I am not trying to be a know-it-all because I am FAR from that.

The photos of bilobata and Tsangii linked above do not appear to be those two species.


Actually what people call DS 70 IS a species: hoya sp aff burtoniae.
The photo of bilobata seems to have pubescent leaves and bilobata has glabrous leaves.
The photo of "tsangii" is actually sp aff burtoniae, as well.

This is tsangii:



Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.
Name: Bonnie Harris
Coeur d' Alene, Idaho (Zone 6a)
Knowledge is love, light is vision.
Dog Lover Irises Plant and/or Seed Trader
Image
TiaLee
Nov 14, 2020 12:26 PM CST
Magpie26 said:
Thumb of 2020-08-12/Magpie26/b92ba2

This is my DS 70/Bilobata from Costa Farms. It has been on my east porch since April. Morning sun gets intense but then it's gone. I have a Tsangii from Violet Barn but it's not doing well . The leaves look the same. No flowers yet to help identify.



Unfortunately, Costa Farms, from what I have read from hoya experts, has been misidentifying this plant for decades. This is not bilobata OR DS 70.(because DS 70 is not a name; it's an ascension number)

The plant they sell is sp aff burtoniae, a very wonderful hoya. This error, evidently, has been pointed out to them many times, but they have not changed their labels.
Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.
Name: Lin Vosbury
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)

Region: United States of America Deer Region: Florida Charter ATP Member Million Pollinator Garden Challenge I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Procrastinator Birds Butterflies Bee Lover Hummingbirder Container Gardener
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plantladylin
Nov 14, 2020 2:49 PM CST
I agree that Wax Plant (Hoya 'DS-70') is not a species, it has been listed with the cultivar name 'DS-70' for many years and there has been much confusion between it and Wax Plant (Hoya tsangii) and Wax Plant (Hoya burtoniae) likely because of many similarities in leaf form and bloom size and color. I can't find much information for Hoya species burtoniae but there are many references online to Hoya species aff. burtoniae. I think the abbreviation aff. means having an affinity to, or looking like, or being related to. The Catalogue of Life only lists species and subspecies but not the aff. (being related.)

Years ago, I had three different plants, one labeled H. bilobata, one labeled H. tsangii and one labeled H. 'DS-70' and they all had leaves of the same size and looked so much alike that it was difficult for me to tell the difference. I thought there were slight but distinct differences in the three leaf shapes but I don't remember for sure what the differences may have been. A Hoya nursery owner posted photos on a forum once showing me the differences between two of the plants that looked identical to mine. Leaves were the same size and color but one plant had leaves with more pointed tips while the other had leaves that were rounded and cup shaped. I wish I could recall which was which but alas, my old brain doesn't cooperate much anymore. I sure miss the professional Hoya Growers who used to be able to help so much with these interesting plants called Hoya. David Liddle of Australia passed away a few years ago and Ted Green is likely in his 90's now. There used to be three or four really knowledgeable and helpful Hoya Nursery Growers/Sellers on the forums but I haven't seen them around in a very long time. Sad

Bonnie, I'm curious as to what the blooms on your Hoya Tsangi look like? The leaves of your plant don't look like the one I grew years ago as the species, spelled Wax Plant (Hoya tsangii) The leaves of your Tsangi remind me more of Wax Plant (Hoya parviflora)


~ I'm an old gal who still loves playing in the dirt!
~ Playing in the dirt is my therapy ... and I'm in therapy a lot!


Name: Peggy
SW Oklahoma (Zone 7b)
Magpie26
Nov 19, 2020 8:51 PM CST
I learned from one of the Facebook forums that my Costa Farms ds 70 is Burtoniae so it looks like we're all on the same page. Smiling The Tsangii that I got from Violet Barn is not Tsangii. ( I didn't post a picture of it because it is very small and struggling.) At least it looks very much like the Burtoniae I already have. Was kind of hoping it really was a Tsangii.
Name: Gina
Florida (Zone 9a)
Tropical plant collector 35 years
Region: Florida Tropicals Aroids
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Gina1960
Nov 22, 2020 8:31 AM CST
Perhaps it might be helpful to review some of the botanical terminology we find in use when we are buying plants and trying to decide what we have or do not have. This is not only a problem for Hoya, but with the explosion of interest in aroids, it is also a problem with Anthuriums, Monsteras, and Philodendrons, and man other genuses. Hoya as a genus is a lot less populated than most these other genuses...some of which have hundreds of undescribed species and potential natural hybrids still running about in the wild. The ONLY way to prove that something is a true species is through genetic testing, and since in the plant world, across many genuses there is normally exhibited considerable degrees of natural variability WITHIN species, sometime you just can't tell by looking.

These are some of the more common terms we run into when looking at attempting to identify and buy plants

Sport--part of a plant that shows morphological differences from the rest of the plant. Ex.--Xanthosoma 'Mickey Mouse' as it is called is a sport of Xanthosoma saggitifolia variegata. A variegated plant is usually a sport of an identical plant in a species...there is a green Hoya Macrophylla and a variegated/albomargintaed one

cv.--'Cultivar'. A cultivar is simply a variety of a plant that does not exist naturally in the wild.

cf.--'compares with'. This tag is placed on a plant that would seem to be a certain species, but there is sufficient difference to compel some amount of uncertainty in the identification

aff.--'species affines'--a potentially new or undescribed species that has affinity to, but is not IDENTICAL TO, the already described/named species

var.--variety. A plant that is not differentiated as a different species or subspecies but has enough morphological difference to constitute a separate identifier

sp.--species. A SINGLE species

spp.--TWO or MORE species--a group of plants within ONE genus whose specific ID has not been determined
(often confused with:)

subsp.-subspecies

form--Latin forma--one rank below variety. Denotes minor morphological differences in things like leaf color, flower color, fruit color (ex. AMydrium medium 'Blue Form' is identical to normal A. medium except for its color.

primary hybrid---the plant that results from the crossing of two primary species. ex--Anthurium radicans x Anthurium luxurians.

Complex hybrid--a plant that results from any cross where one or more parents are themselves hybrids ex. Anthurium 'Mehani' (Anthurium magnificum x [Anthurium radicans x Anthurium luxurians).

X--denotes a hybrid cross
(the use of x before a plant species without another plant in front of the x usually denotes that the hybrid is un unknown cross, these are also called 'bench crosses', 'bench hybrids', 'accidental hybrids'. Ex. 'xCrystallinum' denotes an unknown hybrid cross of Anthurium crystallinum where the ovule parent (the plant that produced the SEEDS) was Crystallinum but the pollen parent is unknown

nm--(latin notho morph) a hybrid made between different VARIETIES or SSP's

TC-tissue culture. (aka Micropropagation)

Species epithet--the second part of a species name, appearing after the Genus (ex. Hoya imbricata...Hoya=genus; imbricata=species epithet)

Accession--a group of plant material of a single species collected at one time in a single location. Primary accession is the first collection of a plant, secondary accession is a second collection of the same plant from the same place. Primary accession designation is used by field botanists who collect specimens of new plants in order to classify them and possibly describe them if they are undescribed. Secondary accession (and Tertiary and so on) are subsequent collection made from the same place over time in order to see if the morphology of the initial collection remains stable

Provenance--the place of origin of a plant. The Provenance of a certain jewel alocasia might be Sarawak (and ONLY Sarawak). The provenance of another species of plant could be a single place, or multiple places. Some plants of the same species may exhibit morphological differences depending on their provenance, some don't. Some seemingly identical plant species may not hybridize with each other, even though they are the same species, because of some genetic difference caused by their provenance (ex some of the species of Anthurium found in Southern Mexico AND also found farther down in different places in South America will NOT hybridize with each other even though they are the same species)

Seedling---any plant grown from a seed. Some dishonest people selling plants will try to convince the buyer that as a seed grown plant, their specimens are somehow superior to or more genetically pure than something like a tissue culture plant (a clone). But actually, a seedling grown from a clone is...well, just another generation of that clone. And, unless extreme care is then, any seeds produced by any plant always have the possibility of having some alien pollen sneaking in, and making a hybrid. So vegetative propagation (even of a tissue culture plant) is usually more 'pure' than seedlings.

Vegetative propagation--propagating by division, stem cutting, air layering, root cuttings, plantlet harvesting etc of a single plant, leaf propagation (like with begonias)

Hopefully this might be helpful to someone


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Name: Mugsie
Eastern PA (Zone 6b)
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Mugsie
Dec 2, 2020 11:19 AM CST
WOW! I wish I could find anything in either my Home Depot or Lowes - all either one stocks are the dried up desiccated crispy or water logged plants every other HD or Lowes in the country sends to my stores to die. I check them fairly regularly but always come up with nothing! I live in eastern PA btw.

Congratulations on your find. Best of luck with it whatever it is.

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