Roses forum: Roses (David Austin and others)

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Southeast Michigan; zone 5 or
Aug 14, 2020 6:11 PM CST
Hi everyone!

I'm thinking of creating a small rose bed in the front of my house. I have planned to include 1 Desdemona rose Thumb of 2020-08-14/KraftyNutkin/e03313
, 1 white eden, 1 Munstead Wood rose (for fragrance). I'm planning on having the white eden and Desdemona at the back of the bed, and have munstead wood and 2 other roses in the front. If I can afford it, I'd like to plant 3 of each rose (i.e. 3 munstead, 3 of X rose, 3 of Y rose) along a tiny boxwood hedge in the front. I'm having tremendous difficulty narrowing down what 2 roses to include on either side of my Munstead Wood Thumb of 2020-08-14/KraftyNutkin/1d5b59. Primary factors I'm considering: disease resistance, reblooming capacity in a season, a cohesive-ish look (i.e. the rose colors work together), the bloom/flower colors as they grow from bud to full bloom. Secondary factors: bloom size and form, scent (I like musk), number of petals. I really like a very subtle uniform peach-ish pink (maybe apricot?) colored flower. I would really like some thoughts/feelings/opinions on your experience with any of these roses, and info regarding color scheme (I am terrible with matching colors), problems/health, and info about accuracy/inaccuracy of color re the pics I've included. With that said, here are my current options:

-Abraham Darby (David Austin) - google search shows me that lots of people love this. Seems to be a climber unless pruned to a shrub? Disease resistance/plant health and size are my biggest concerns, because the flower looks FANTASTIC! I really like what I perceive to be a muted peach-ish pink. To me, the color reminds me of the Queen of Sweden rose. Compared to Eustacia Vye, the contrast between the outer petals and inner petals aren't as stark. Also, this appears to have nodding blooms?
Thumb of 2020-08-14/KraftyNutkin/9f201e

-Carding Mill (David Austin) - Love the flower form. Wondering about whether this rose is more orange-y in real life and would look off near Munstead Wood..especially if the rose on the other side of Munstead Wood is pink..
Thumb of 2020-08-14/KraftyNutkin/cff633

-Princess Charlene de Monaco - I think this looks like a piece of heaven. I'm curious about the accuracy of the lots of pics online look/are photoshopped. Also, is this a rebloomer? Does it actually have a yellowish or white-ish tinge at the middle?
Thumb of 2020-08-14/KraftyNutkin/8e96e0

-Eustacia Vye (David Austin) - hard to find info and pics of this as it is new. Seems more coral pink or pink than the Abraham Darby. I really love the uniformity of color across different stages of the Abraham Darby, whereas this doesn't seem to have that, but it's supposedly a stronger, healthier rose.
Thumb of 2020-08-15/KraftyNutkin/5debeb

-Olivia Rose Austin (David Austin) - there appears to be nothing but good things said about this rose (health, repeat bloomer, exceptionally long flowering season). I like it, but the rose form is not my favorite. and it appears not to have hues of warmth..which I'm leaning towards. Yet, I think it would look smashing near Munstead. If this were one of my picks, how could a tiny bit of warmth to the garden (without a bright yellow or orange)? Could this work on the other side of Munstead if I were to pick a peach-ish pink rose for one side?
Thumb of 2020-08-14/KraftyNutkin/438ca8

*I thought about Jubilee Celebration, but I'm not a fan of nodding blooms.
Also, does anyone know anything about the accuracy of What about purchasing David Austin roses from them vs. from Heirloom Roses? Which two roses would you pick to place on either side of Munstead Wood? If you have any other (David Austin) rose suggestions, I'd love to hear about them.
Name: Lola
Keeps Sheep Roses Cottage Gardener Garden Photography Birds Farmer
Aug 15, 2020 2:20 AM CST
White Eden and Desdemona are a safe bet because they are white, so they don't fade or change colour with the season or because of other factors. Coloured roses are different when grown in different places. My Munstead Wood is nearly black whereas other people say it is red, purple or blueberry coloured in their gardens. Help Me Find Roses has lots of photos of blooms from different places around the world to give you an idea of the colours the same rose can appear in different locations and conditions.

Desdemona and Munstead Wood are also roses that have saturated, solid colour. Many roses have several different colours in the one bloom so if you want to keep the theme of solid colour you will have to choose carefully.

Princess Charlene de Monaco has peach and pink tones for me and has upright blooms. She looks just like the one in your photo but that is her at her best. She does need to be snipped off once the blooms age as they don't age well. I find Austin roses never need snipping like that because they always look lovely at every stage.

Are you looking for contrasing colours of ones that harmonize?
Name: Mike Stewart
Lower Hudson Valley, New York (Zone 6b)
Garden Photography I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Roses Seed Starter Container Gardener Bulbs
Peonies Clematis Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Dog Lover Cat Lover Birds
Aug 15, 2020 8:40 AM CST
One concern I have is that White Eden doesn't come to mind when I think of a "small rose bed". It can reach 12 feet in height and spread just as wide. It's good that you would put it in the back of the bed, but don't underestimate its potential spread, and that you'll probably need access to its branching canes to prune them in order to keep them in bounds, and to tie them to supports such as one or more trellises.
Coastal Southern California (Zone 13a)
Aug 15, 2020 11:12 AM CST
I'd echo Mike's concern. Of course, I am in SoCal ... and that matters ... but 'Abraham Darby' was a very large rose here.

The blooms were also immense (and wonderfully fragrant) and they definitely nod. I would pick them for a vase, and I'd have to fill the bottom of the vase with marbles, to weight it down, lest the sheer weight of the nodding blooms tip it over.

In fact, now I think on it, more Austins than not tend to nod. If you dislike that look, you may be disappointed.
[Last edited by jerijen - Aug 15, 2020 2:11 PM (+)]
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Name: seil
St Clair Shores, MI (Zone 6a)
Roses Garden Photography Region: Michigan
Aug 15, 2020 2:18 PM CST
Michigan winters can be tough on climbers. There's usually a lot of cane die back. However, the only times I've had severe cane loss on my two DA roses, Golden Celebration and Graham Thomas, were the two really bad polar vortex winters. And they both quickly grew back. I've found that DAs, for the most part, get larger than the catalogs say here in the USA. They are both water gauges for me and will wilt first when it gets dry here. You have to remember they were bred in the UK where it is cooler, damper and less sunny than it is here. I just got Queen of Sweden and Jubilee Celebration last year so they are still quite small. We'll see if they do the same as the others.

Unfortunately our state is surrounded by those big lakes so we kind of live in a fish bowl. The humidity is always high! Because of that we are a very high black spot area and all of my DAs are black spot prone. Of the four QoS seems to be the most resistant so far.

As far as nodding goes, the only one that does not nod much at all is QoS. The other three nod quite a bit. That doesn't bother me as much on the taller two because it lets me see, and smell, them more easily. But I've yet to be able to bend down far enough to get a good whiff of Jubilee, lol!
Name: David Tillyer
New York City (Zone 7b)
Aug 15, 2020 2:20 PM CST
Maybe the new bed in your front yard can be a raised bed...really raised!
SW Ohio River Valley (Zone 6b)
Aug 15, 2020 5:24 PM CST
I have multiple MW and they are planted next to Bolero, Summer Romance, Gruss an Aachen and Marie Pavie. My neighbor has a gorgeous shorter apricot Austin. I'll ask him today what it is as it's very healthy. AD is meant to be a Black Spotter. If you want a warmer pink that Olivia, perhaps try to find Pretty Jessica. Freedom Gardens carries her from time to time, but probably not for this year. She is hardy in Z6. He also sometimes has another charmer called Peggy M by P. Jerabek.
Southeast Michigan; zone 5 or
Aug 16, 2020 8:33 PM CST
Thank you all very much!

Lola - thank you for sharing the "helpmefind" resource, and for reminding me that roses in different climates/regions can have different colors. I've been enthralled with all the information and pictures on the helpmefind website. I do like the solid color look! I'm particularly concerned about MW with all the varying colors! Also, does MW live up to the terms of fragrance and color? And thank you for informing me that DA roses age better than others. I think I want my roses to contrast (rather than harmonize).

Mike and jerijen - wow thanks for the info about white Eden!! I wasn't anticipating a 12ft climber..that could spread just as wide.. Do you think I can prune it to stay a certain size? (e.g. 6ft H X 5 ft W)

Seil - "DAs, for the most part, get larger than the catalogs say here in the USA" - thank you for this info! Goodness! Could you say more? Like 1-2 feet larger? Or just marginally? By width or height? You live in Michigan/zone 6 I value your input! Also, regarding black spot...I'm TERRIFIED and have so many conflicting feelings about Abraham Darby (and I guess other DA roses too) because of black spot!!! I have a sawfly problem with the two roses in my garden. Trying to treat it with a homemade insecticidal soap.

David - I've seriously thought about that, but I live in a condo with many silly restrictions Thumbs down I can't do a (really) raised bed.

Vaporvac - oooh thanks for the suggestions!

Just curious, if I planted two MW about 18" from each other, would they grow to 5 feet across? Or 6? The DA website says they get to 3 feet wide. Also, can anyone suggest best DA roses (or non-DA) pink/red/crimson roses with a strong musk fragrance? Is Munstead Wood worth the hype? How does it do in terms of frequency of repeat blooms and abundance/productivity?

Thank You!
Name: Lola
Keeps Sheep Roses Cottage Gardener Garden Photography Birds Farmer
Aug 16, 2020 9:12 PM CST
My Munstead Wood is too short for me to stoop down to sniff at yet. I have only had it for a year and most of my other roses for less than four years. The majority of my roses are DAs.

Wise Portia is a DA that is shorter and has saturated darker pink blooms that would look great with MW. Some of the lighter pinks can look insipid next to a solid dark colour. Perhaps a yellow would be nice? I have Charlotte and I adore the way she doesn't fade or bleach. She may be too big for you though as I heard she can get quite wide.

I spray for BS when the leaves first emerge and then let nature take it's course. The leaves don't turn yellow for me but they do have spots before falling off but they don't look unsightly in my eyes.

You may have to wait for your Munstead Wood to bloom to see what colour it is before deciding on the third rose.

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