Daylilies forum: My turn for a humble ID help request

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Name: Dennis
SW Michigan (Zone 5a)
Daylilies
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Dennis616
Aug 25, 2020 6:26 PM CST
Ok I would like to ask for help identifying a NOID. Whistling

Thumb of 2020-08-26/Dennis616/27d143

I call this one "Rescue Red" because I stumbled upon it completely hidden and buried beneath a huge mass of trees and shrubs in a wild corner of my property. I was shocked that quite a few plants were surviving in nearly complete shade and with what must have been incredible root competition. I rescued several and planted them in a better place.

Some previous owner of the property must have planted it, probably in the 1980's but possibly earlier.

~ 24-26" height, ~ 3.5-4" bloom. I think it may be a tet because I've set pods to what appears to be viable completion on it several times using tet pollen.

I haven't done a thorough search myself yet. Hoping somebody recognizes it...

Thanks! Thumbs up



Name: Tim
West Chicago, IL (Zone 5a)
Daylilies Native Plants and Wildflowers Vegetable Grower
Image
Lyshack
Aug 25, 2020 6:46 PM CST
I'll spare you the slim odds/7 million registered discussion, and just take a hack at it. On my PC, it looks orange, but I'm going to guess from the rescue red name, it has more red in it. Might it be Pink Damask?


Name: Dennis
SW Michigan (Zone 5a)
Daylilies
Image
Dennis616
Aug 25, 2020 6:51 PM CST
Tim, you're right, the photo does make it look quite orange. In real-life viewing I'd say it's red, almost pink. But the photo is making me question my eyes Hilarious!

Pink Damask does look quite similar, though the registered height of 36" is quite a bit taller than the 25" height mine is consistently showing...

Name: Tim
West Chicago, IL (Zone 5a)
Daylilies Native Plants and Wildflowers Vegetable Grower
Image
Lyshack
Aug 25, 2020 7:34 PM CST
Does it ever look like this?


Smiling I may be out of guesses. Good luck.
Name: Dennis
SW Michigan (Zone 5a)
Daylilies
Image
Dennis616
Aug 26, 2020 11:20 AM CST
Ha! Hilarious! Imagine finding that growing wild on your property!

I'm impressed you so quickly pretty much nailed the look with Pink Damask.
Name: Tim
West Chicago, IL (Zone 5a)
Daylilies Native Plants and Wildflowers Vegetable Grower
Image
Lyshack
Aug 26, 2020 2:57 PM CST
Well, there's only 80 or 90,000 registered daylilies, so... Whistling

Actually, I have a NoID of my own that I thought might have been Pink Damask, and I immediately associated it with yours. Mine even looks more orange in photos like yours. But mine seems to have too much extra color in the eye zone. But that's how I was familiar with Pink Damask.

My NoID. Too pink to be kwanso, I think:

Thumb of 2020-08-26/Lyshack/b29e1b Thumb of 2020-08-26/Lyshack/af7ca5

Name: Robin
Southern Michigan (Zone 6a)
Region: Michigan Seller of Garden Stuff Seed Starter Cat Lover Daylilies Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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RobinSeeds
Aug 26, 2020 11:15 PM CST
It looks like my H. fulva rosea



God blessed me with dirt.
('Mipii' on The LA)
Name: Dennis
SW Michigan (Zone 5a)
Daylilies
Image
Dennis616
Aug 27, 2020 8:39 AM CST
It does look like rosea. The only thing is my plant is only 25" tall and blooms only 3.5-4", which doesn't seem to match Pink Damask or fulva rosea. It's been growing for I think 3 years now in its new location and has been consistent.

Interestingly both of those are dips, and I've readily set pods using tet pollen and they certainly don't abort like you'd expect with a ploidy mismatch. Maybe I should plant the seeds and see if they truly are viable. I forget right now what the likely ploidy outcome is from crossing dip and tet.

As a clump puts out new fans, there can be tiny genetic differences that appear in the new fans. I wonder if over decades my plant has slowly shrunk in fan height and flower size. Seems unlikely such significant changes could have occurred that way, and in every fan, but I suppose it can't be completely ruled out...

Hmmmm.....
Name: Maurice
Grey County, Ontario (Zone 4b)
Image
admmad
Aug 27, 2020 9:27 AM CST
@Dennis616
Interestingly both of those are dips, and I've readily set pods using tet pollen and they certainly don't abort like you'd expect with a ploidy mismatch. Maybe I should plant the seeds and see if they truly are viable. I forget right now what the likely ploidy outcome is from crossing dip and tet.


For how long have you watched the pods? At least half of dip x tet and tet x dip pods last more than a week and about 20% last more than five weeks.

If the pods from tet pollen have had mature looking seeds and more than one or two seeds in each pod then I might be willing to bet that it is a tet. Have you tried tet pollen from more than one cultivar?
Plants from tet x dip or dip x tet are most likely triploids.

As a clump puts out new fans, there can be tiny genetic differences that appear in the new fans. I wonder if over decades my plant has slowly shrunk in fan height and flower size. Seems unlikely such significant changes could have occurred that way, and in every fan, but I suppose it can't be completely ruled out...


Yes but the probability is 95% that any changes are recessive and they will be different in each fan's lineage. Unless you only rescued one fan initially any genetic changes that occurred that resulted in visible changes to the plant characteristics would be different.

Maurice
Name: Dennis
SW Michigan (Zone 5a)
Daylilies
Image
Dennis616
Aug 27, 2020 9:44 AM CST
admmad said:
For how long have you watched the pods? At least half of dip x tet and tet x dip pods last more than a week and about 20% last more than five weeks.

If the pods from tet pollen have had mature looking seeds and more than one or two seeds in each pod then I might be willing to bet that it is a tet. Have you tried tet pollen from more than one cultivar?


The pods all took as long as normal and appeared totally normal at all times. Each produced multiple (4+) good-looking seeds (several non-viable ones also though). So I agree it most likely is a tet.


admmad said:
Plants from tet x dip or dip x tet are most likely triploids.

Thank-you.

admmad said:
Yes but the probability is 95% that any changes are recessive and they will be different in each fan's lineage. Unless you only rescued one fan initially any genetic changes that occurred that resulted in visible changes to the plant characteristics would be different.


Yes, agreed, that was pretty much my thought as well. I supposed that the simplest solution is the correct one-- this plant is just another NOID... Smiling
Name: Marcia
Rochester, ny, zone 6 (Zone 6b)
Dragonflies Dog Lover
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DaylilyDazzled
Aug 28, 2020 7:59 PM CST
Just wondering
Since you found under bushes/trees could it be a sdlg from something that was planted there or close to that area many yrs ago?
Missouri (Zone 6a)
Frillylily
Aug 30, 2020 4:35 PM CST
Daylily (Hemerocallis 'Cara Mia') This is only registered as 14 inches, but I have several that are not accurate to the registered heights, so you may consider this one. If you could find a source, you could buy it grow them close to see what it does for you.
[Last edited by Frillylily - Aug 30, 2020 4:37 PM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #2339143 (12)
Name: Dennis
SW Michigan (Zone 5a)
Daylilies
Image
Dennis616
Aug 30, 2020 4:47 PM CST
DaylilyDazzled said:Just wondering
Since you found under bushes/trees could it be a sdlg from something that was planted there or close to that area many yrs ago?


I appreciate that thought! I do not THINK that is the case because I gathered several plants from there, from an area larger than what one clump would be, and they all have looked absolutely identical. You'd think if they were seedlings at least some would look differently.

I might take a closer look in that area and see if I can any more survivors that might be a different plant...
Name: Dennis
SW Michigan (Zone 5a)
Daylilies
Image
Dennis616
Aug 30, 2020 4:49 PM CST
Frillylily said:https://garden.org/plants/view/31494/Daylily-Hemerocallis-Cara-Mia/ This is only registered as 14 inches, but I have several that are not accurate to the registered heights, so you may consider this one. If you could find a source, you could buy it grow them close to see what it does for you.


The photos of Cara Mia really do look almost exactly like it, especially in my mind's eye. You could be on to something there. Thumbs up Again there is a problem with Cara Mia being a diploid, since it's looking like mine is a tet, but certainly gives pause...

I like the idea of acquiring C ara Mia and doing a direct comparison!
[Last edited by Dennis616 - Aug 30, 2020 4:54 PM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #2339152 (14)
Name: Valerie
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Irises Roses Peonies Butterflies Birds
Bee Lover Region: Canadian Ponds Garden Art Dog Lover Enjoys or suffers cold winters
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touchofsky
Aug 30, 2020 5:24 PM CST
I have Cara Mia and it is much taller than 14 inches in my garden. I will measure a scape tomorrow. The photos I have posted in the data base are accurate for the colour here.
Touch_of_sky on the LA
Missouri (Zone 6a)
Frillylily
Aug 30, 2020 5:36 PM CST
Just read again and seen that the one you want to ID was under a tree/ meaning it probably got shade there and may have grown taller than 'normal' reaching for sun Thinking So that does make the height a difficult thing to nail down. I have some like that too.

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