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Nov 22, 2012 9:57 PM CST
The berries are immature and quarter their ripe size.
Nov 23, 2012 7:43 AM CST
|Perhaps Ziziphus jujuba?|
I would be wary of many of the photos you find on google, there's several different species.
Is it your own tree Masud?
Nov 23, 2012 10:07 AM CST
|Yes Janet its my own tree. I love birds and their songs, so I planted trees edible both to birds and children. Children love them(neighbours) and birds. These trees fruit heavy, we get more then enough. I have for the last two years a breeding pair of Himalayan Crested Bulbuls and I don't know how many juvenile bulbuls whose crests have not developed as yet.|
Ziziphus zizyphus and Ziziphus nummularia grow wild here. Its not these two. There is another Ziziphus grows down South known as Sindhi berri whose fruit is round and about one and half inch in dia. This one is elongated length is a little under two inches while dia is about one and half inch and in the nursery trade its known as Show berri. As it is a grafted tree and not natural I have a feeling about Zizyphus mauritiana. I put the scale there on purpose, our local ones have smaller sized leaves not as huge as this one.
When I am confused then I come to this forum so that other eyes also go over and counter check. Net is some what of a library reference, you get what you enter and it is not necessary that every one enters the same search parameters.
Bit off colour today due to a trip down memory lane, very far down.
Nov 23, 2012 11:11 AM CST
|Zizyphus mauritiana is accepted on the Plant List ..|
I'm finding Ziziphus jujuba is a synonym of Zizyphus mauritiana in some places, but not on the Plant List ..
The quality of Z. jujuba fruit is said to be better ..
Bark dark grey or dull black, irregularly fissured (Zizyphus mauritiana), I had noticed the bark is smooth on your tree where most I see are fissured. Could that be due to age, is yours a young tree?
The ber is one of the most common fruit trees of India and is cultivated practically all over the country .. Varieties Numerous horticultural varieties of ber are grown all over India. Some of the most popular varieties are Umran, Karaka, Gola, Seb, Chhuhara, Sanaur - 2, Ilaichi and Mehrun. In Maharashtra, cv.Umran Is being grown on commercial scale. It has excellent keeping quality and transportability but flat taste.
Fruits looked pointed on the end, if the photo is correct..
As there's many varieties, and yours is grafted it could be one of the varieties.
Best stay away from memory lane unless it's a good place, today will some day be memory lane, will it be any better? I hope so.
Nov 23, 2012 2:49 PM CST
Janet this Ziziphus is a cultivar. I think I can put this problem to the database'wallas to solve. Breeding and selection is different from wild plants is it not so?
Nov 24, 2012 12:17 AM CST
Janet, passed it along. Now their choice.
Nov 26, 2012 4:21 AM CST
|Masud, these links give information on some cultivars of Ziziphus as well as some information on certain good cultivars (scroll down), and the regions they are grown in which is in India but it may give some clues. |
Nov 26, 2012 5:58 AM CST
Janet we are not in India. United India from Peshawar to Rangoon was a distance of more then two thousand miles. We all including Burma went our own way and one thing is common amongst all the former parts of United India. Jealousy, privacy, has separated (cordon sanitaire) us. Not even a bird can fly over how can a poor Ziziphus? We can only agree to disagree.
It seems all the work on Ziziphus in Pakistan is being done at Arid Research Institute, Tandojam. Now let me see who I can contact down there. Enter into search "Agriculture University Tandojam" you should get a hit.
Nov 26, 2012 6:46 AM CST
|Yes Masud, I know it's in India and you are not but I thought it might give some clues as to the cultivars which are suited for different climates. Those cultivars were selected a long time ago as being worthy to grow so is there any reason some could not also be sold in Pakistan?|
Nov 26, 2012 7:00 AM CST
|I searched on the University site and found three links, another search using a reference title I got from the second link gave me an interesting pdf with Ziziphus mentioned. It might not get you anywhere but is interesting.|
Nov 26, 2012 7:28 AM CST
|Janet it is a tall order. Names of cultivars in this case will not work, I need the data to compare or I need a physical specimen to compare or I need a botanist to eat his head but in any case, he will also need some thing. |
A little while back I was thinking with one Acacia and one Pinus outstanding, plants which we can physically differentiate from photographs or you can ask me if it is armed or not to a Ziziphus cultivar, quite a record of sorts.
Now where to find the record which will solve all three? You and I both know where the record is but it is not in my reach. The kindest thing you could do is to catch hold of all the aunties in Kew and make them members of ATP. Where are the botanists Janet?
Nov 26, 2012 9:25 AM CST
|Masud, I use what I find as stepping stones to do more searching, that's how I find what I want.|
I came across Babul often in the above pdf, a search for "Babul tree" then brings different results. Once more I'm finding Acacia nilotica with mention of mature trees not being armed. Young trees are armed, at what stage is a tree considered mature? When it attains a certain height?
Nov 26, 2012 2:05 PM CST
|Mature trees of nilotica, the last one's I saw were in Sindh along the Indus river about forty years back. Huge trees.fifty feet or so with a spread about the same in Khannoot forest, district Dadu. It was deep shade under them. I don't think any have survived the greed of man in this area.|
What happens is, the trunk and major branches over time lose their thorns but I wont call them thorn less. The minor branches and new growth are still armed.
Babbul and Kikkar are the same tree, Acacia. Babbul is in Urdu/Hindi, same language different names. Depends on which side of the border you are. Kikkar is in Punjabi/Sindhi/Pashto vernacular. Which boils down to this side of the border, with half of Punjab on that side. Urdu/Hindi is the main spoken language but it is evolving into two taking into its folds the local dialects so divergence over time is taking place.
Now when you enter babbul, then the trees from central India predominate. When you enter Kikkar, trees from the Western part predominate. This nilotica started from the Nile area, why don't you check Egypt from where the journey started? See what they have to say, then we have Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan where all it rested on its long journey. By the time it reached us it became subs. indica.
Jan 10, 2013 4:08 AM CST
Janet, any comments about a rambler?
Jan 10, 2013 5:40 AM CST
|No comment other than it looks completely wrong! Leaf venation is wrong for a start, I don't think I want to spend my time trying to find what it is though. If they posted it here I might!|
Jan 10, 2013 8:03 AM CST
Jan 10, 2013 8:05 AM CST
|Saw a butterfly today, thought of you but alas the camera was resting inside. Season coming up.|