Roses forum: I can't get rid of blackspot on my roses. I have used the BioAdvanced 3-in-1...

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Name: Susan Johnson
Defuniak Springs, FL (Zone 8b)
RagdollTherapy
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RagdollThera
Sep 19, 2020 10:23 AM CST
I've been using the BioAdvanced 3-in-1 Insect Disease & Mite Control. I can't get rid of the blackspot. I have picked off the bad leaves and put them in a bag/garbage so they won't contaminate the area but I think it's too late as almost all of my roses have it now. I have picked off the bad leaves twice but they keep coming back. All of my roses are in 5 gallon buckets and did very well the first year but now are doing poorly about the balckspot. (Most of them are growing fine, though). My soil is sand basically. I propagated some of my roses from the purchased ones and planted several of them in the ground with lots of compost/good purchased soil. Those all have slow growth so I'm afraid to plant the originals and just keep them in the buckets. Any advice is welcome...
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Coastal Southern California (Zone 13a)
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jerijen
Sep 19, 2020 1:35 PM CST
Thera -- Roses kept in containers as small as 5-G find it difficult to establish a mature, healthy rootstock.

Roses that do not have a healthy rootstock are hampered in their ability to resist fungal disease.

If your roses continue to deal with constricted roots, you will very likely be hard-pressed to ameliorate this problem.

It is also true that some cultivars are naturally more resistant to blackspot than others -- so it might be helpful to find out if the roses you have selected have a good natural immunity to blackspot. A primary characteristic for you to consider in selecting roses is blackspot resistance.
Name: Susan Johnson
Defuniak Springs, FL (Zone 8b)
RagdollTherapy
Roses
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RagdollThera
Sep 19, 2020 1:49 PM CST
jerijen said:Thera -- Roses kept in containers as small as 5-G find it difficult to establish a mature, healthy rootstock.

Roses that do not have a healthy rootstock are hampered in their ability to resist fungal disease.

If your roses continue to deal with constricted roots, you will very likely be hard-pressed to ameliorate this problem.

It is also true that some cultivars are naturally more resistant to blackspot than others -- so it might be helpful to find out if the roses you have selected have a good natural immunity to blackspot. A primary characteristic for you to consider in selecting roses is blackspot resistance.


Thanks for your response. Unfortuately, I have already acquired all the roses--there are 50 different varieties. Can you give me advice about planting them in the yard, in the poor sandy soil? I do want to plant them but I'm worried they won't thrive.
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Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member Dog Lover Cat Lover Keeper of Poultry Keeps Horses I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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porkpal
Sep 19, 2020 2:21 PM CST
I have sandy soil. Adding compost when planting and periodically thereafter and mulching with any sort of organic material will help. They will also need frequent, generous watering. (At least digging planting holes is easy in sand!)
Porkpal
Name: David Tillyer
New York City (Zone 7b)
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BigAppleRoseGuy
Sep 19, 2020 2:52 PM CST
Bio-Advanced seems to be an insecticide. Guess I would suggest a fungicide for black spot in containers.
There are others on this list that can address this better than I can.
Good luck. David
Name: Ken Wilkinson
N.E. GA. (Cornelia) (Zone 7b)
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KenNEGA
Sep 19, 2020 6:05 PM CST
The Bio 3 in 1 is almost useless in FL. Get the BioAdvanced Disease Control and use it. It won't cure any foliage that has been infected but it will keep everything else clean. Just fowwow directions.
Now about your roses. Where did you buy them ?
It's a rose!!! It has nothing to do with life and death.
Name: seil
St Clair Shores, MI (Zone 6a)
Roses Garden Photography Region: Michigan
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seilMI
Sep 19, 2020 8:29 PM CST
I agree with Ken. Those 3 in 1 products sound so good but in reality you just get a watered down amount of each thing. If you don't have bugs your using product you don't need and if you do have bugs you need to ID them and then get the correct product for that bug. The fungicide is the same thing. Not all of them work as well on all diseases. ID the problem and then get the specific product for that disease. Otherwise you're wasting your time, energy and money.

The cuttings you rooted have slow growth because they are babies. It takes 3 to 5 years for a rose bush to mature. And own root cuttings may even take a little longer depending on what variety it is. Depending on where you purchased the other plants they are probably grafted roses. Those will be at least 2 years old already and with the added push of the strong growing root stock they will mature much quicker. They should do just fine in the ground.

Florida is a high pressure area for black spot because of the high humidity. The black spot spores are just out there every where all the time but they only show up when the weather conditions are right for them to bloom and grow. Disease pressure will be different every year because of differences in the weather from year to year. I live in Michigan surrounded by the Great Lakes and with high humidity too. I have a no spray garden and some years I see very little black spot and other years I am besieged with it. The best advice I can give you is to look for rose varieties that are more black spot resistant. You might want to check with a local rose society to see what roses they would suggest for your area that have a high resistance.

In the mean time, relax! The roses will not die from black spot. The roses will still bloom with black spot. So spend a little more time enjoying the blooms and less time fretting over the leaves.
Name: Susan Johnson
Defuniak Springs, FL (Zone 8b)
RagdollTherapy
Roses
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RagdollThera
Sep 20, 2020 5:11 AM CST
KenNEGA said:The Bio 3 in 1 is almost useless in FL. Get the BioAdvanced Disease Control and use it. It won't cure any foliage that has been infected but it will keep everything else clean. Just fowwow directions.
Now about your roses. Where did you buy them ?

Most of them are from Heirloom Roses. Some are from Ebay, some from Etsy, some from other commercial growers. All of them are own-root roses. Hubby took a count and came up with 47 before I got the last 3 in and said NO MORE!! 50 is my limit--whether I like it or not... I will get the Disease Formula in a few days from Amazon. Thanks to everyone for your advice!
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Name: Mike Stewart
Lower Hudson Valley, New York (Zone 6b)
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Mike
Sep 20, 2020 9:32 AM CST
It's also important to realize that there are multiple varieties of Blackspot, not just one. And, like any microbe, the spores can develop resistance to any given fungicide. This is why it's important to alternate between two different fungicides... not just different brand names, but the mode of action they employ to treat blackspot. It's also important to understand the difference between contact fungicides that kill the fungus on contact, and preventative fungicides that prevent blackspot from spreading to healthy leaves. I use three different fungicides: one type as a contact only when needed, and I alternate between two different preventatives. It's also essential to follow the schedule, or frequency of spraying. It's a lot to keep up with, and the best fungicides are expensive, but it's worth it to me personally. And I never use two-in-one or three-in-one products, because I don't use insecticides. They can kill beneficial insects that I value in my garden, especially pollinators.
[Last edited by Mike - Sep 20, 2020 11:46 AM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #2351747 (9)
Name: Susan Johnson
Defuniak Springs, FL (Zone 8b)
RagdollTherapy
Roses
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RagdollThera
Sep 20, 2020 2:09 PM CST
Mike said:It's also important to realize that there are multiple varieties of Blackspot, not just one. And, like any microbe, the spores can develop resistance to any given fungicide. This is why it's important to alternate between two different fungicides... not just different brand names, but the mode of action they employ to treat blackspot. It's also important to understand the difference between contact fungicides that kill the fungus on contact, and preventative fungicides that prevent blackspot from spreading to healthy leaves. I use three different fungicides: one type as a contact only when needed, and I alternate between two different preventatives. It's also essential to follow the schedule, or frequency of spraying. It's a lot to keep up with, and the best fungicides are expensive, but it's worth it to me personally. And I never use two-in-one or three-in-one products, because I don't use insecticides. They can kill beneficial insects that I value in my garden, especially pollinators.

Would you mind telling me what you use for preventative and what your schedule is for using it? Once I get rid of the active symptoms I'd like to do my best to keep my roses healthy. Thank You!
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Name: Mike Stewart
Lower Hudson Valley, New York (Zone 6b)
Garden Photography I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Roses Seed Starter Container Gardener Bulbs
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Mike
Sep 20, 2020 2:26 PM CST
For preventatives, I alternate between Propiconazole 14.3% and Compass. Most people have a heart attack when they see how much Compass costs (understandably so). However, it's a granule in a container that lasts years, unlike liquid concentrates which can have a shelf life, and the dose is only about 1/4 teaspoon per gallon of water. I have large gardens and I bought it years ago for about half of what it costs now, but even then I considered it a long-term investment (more like a pre-paid expense).

Read the labels for frequency of applications.

For contact fungicide I use what used to be called Pentathlon DF (now Manzate Pro Stick). I use it with Indicate surfactant (sticker/spreader). It's sulfur based and leaves yellowish water spots on leaves which I dislike, but it kills the blackspot.

All of these are available at Rosemania at http://rosemania.com/page5.htm.... However, not all products are available for sale in all states, and some can only be sold to licensed professionals. For instance, Pentathlon can no longer be sold in New York, but I purchased a significant volume of the powder years ago, and am allowed to use it up. But once it's gone, I'll switch to an alternative.

I also use the Hudson brand four gallon battery backpack sprayer, which is probably available on Amazon. I also use a respirator, nitrile gloves, long pants and long sleeved shirts and hat when applying these fungicides. Always read the Material Safety Data Sheet to understand the chemicals involved and whether you are comfortable working with them.
[Last edited by Mike - Sep 20, 2020 6:00 PM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #2351919 (11)
Minnesota (Zone 3b)
RpR
Sep 20, 2020 2:55 PM CST
Black Spot is in the soil they came in.
Do not use 3 in 1 use a dedicated bio fungicide killer and douse, heavily, the whole plant in it, pot and all.
I use Serenade, Sonata, Oxidate and Actinovate.
When you plant, plant with a bagged cow manure , it helps them get started.
[Last edited by RpR - Sep 20, 2020 2:59 PM (+)]
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United Kingdom
Growmore
Sep 20, 2020 6:18 PM CST
In simple terms. Blackspot is an airborne fungal infection. Basically it attacks a multitude of plants. The leaves, being the outward defence system, naturally take the brunt of any attack. Trsponse is to remove affected leaves, gather up fallen leaves and burn. Do not compost. The fungal spores remain in the leaves and if left in the soil, can and will in time appear again, so much closer to home.

Question. Can I cure my plant of Black Spot? NO. There is no cure. You can however resort to numerous chemicals. Although these may apprat to stall off future attacks. Such usage and the consequentual findings have to rest with the individual. Sorry but that is the reallity.
Name: Mike Stewart
Lower Hudson Valley, New York (Zone 6b)
Garden Photography I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Roses Seed Starter Container Gardener Bulbs
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Mike
Sep 20, 2020 7:27 PM CST
I'm not sure I understand or necessarily agree with the statement that you can't cure a plant of blackspot. I suppose it might depend on what is meant by cured. Once a leaf is infected, you cannot cure it. But you can remove infected leaves from the plant, and spray the remaining uninfected leaves with fungicides to prevent future infection, and attain a healthy plant as it re-foliates - one that shows no blackspot.
[Last edited by Mike - Sep 20, 2020 7:28 PM (+)]
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Name: Margie
NY (Zone 7a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
MargieNY
Sep 20, 2020 7:33 PM CST
I spray everything here in blackspot heaven - and I mean everything including shrubs with OxiDate every 10 -14 days. I use Actinovate as a root drench.

Here's a link on Actinovate:
https://www.gardeners.com/how-...

The following links are about OxiDate. It can be purchased as a concentrate or ready to use.
https://biosafesystems.com/pro...

https://www.johnnyseeds.com/to...

https://www.dixondalefarms.com...

The Kordes roses from 2001 to date were field tested for disease resistance. The Kordes roses whether grafted or own root have shown to be carefree roses here on Long Island in my garden.
Observe, observe, observe
Name: Susan Johnson
Defuniak Springs, FL (Zone 8b)
RagdollTherapy
Roses
Image
RagdollThera
Sep 20, 2020 7:42 PM CST
Mike said:For preventatives, I alternate between Propiconazole 14.3% and Compass. Most people have a heart attack when they see how much Compass costs (understandably so). However, it's a granule in a container that lasts years, unlike liquid concentrates which can have a shelf life, and the dose is only about 1/4 teaspoon per gallon of water. I have large gardens and I bought it years ago for about half of what it costs now, but even then I considered it a long-term investment (more like a pre-paid expense).

Read the labels for frequency of applications.

For contact fungicide I use what used to be called Pentathlon DF (now Manzate Pro Stick). I use it with Indicate surfactant (sticker/spreader). It's sulfur based and leaves yellowish water spots on leaves which I dislike, but it kills the blackspot.

All of these are available at Rosemania at http://rosemania.com/page5.htm.... However, not all products are available for sale in all states, and some can only be sold to licensed professionals. For instance, Pentathlon can no longer be sold in New York, but I purchased a significant volume of the powder years ago, and am allowed to use it up. But once it's gone, I'll switch to an alternative.

I also use the Hudson brand four gallon battery backpack sprayer, which is probably available on Amazon. I also use a respirator, nitrile gloves, long pants and long sleeved shirts and hat when applying these fungicides. Always read the Material Safety Data Sheet to understand the chemicals involved and whether you are comfortable working with them.


Thank you, I will look into it and see what I can do. I have a small pump sorayer I use but I will look into larger ones since it looks like this will be an ongoing battle... We'll see what I can get in Florida...
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Name: Mike Stewart
Lower Hudson Valley, New York (Zone 6b)
Garden Photography I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Roses Seed Starter Container Gardener Bulbs
Peonies Clematis Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Dog Lover Cat Lover Birds
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Mike
Sep 20, 2020 7:58 PM CST
Susan, do you have a Ragdoll cat? We did for many years, but he passed last year at the age of 18.
Name: Susan Johnson
Defuniak Springs, FL (Zone 8b)
RagdollTherapy
Roses
Image
RagdollThera
Sep 21, 2020 5:45 AM CST
Mike said:Susan, do you have a Ragdoll cat? We did for many years, but he passed last year at the age of 18.


I do. This is my 3rd; she's a Blue Mitted. The 2nd one, Skittles, a Blue Point, died of HCM st 18 months. The breeder advertised that the parents are tested HCM free but obviously they were not. This one I got from a different breeder after much research and got a copy of both HCM tests of parents. My goal, besides just loving on it, is to use my Ragdoll as a therapy ("thera") cat in nursing homes but haven't had one suitable for it yet. This one is scared of everything and hides when we have people over. Maybe the next one... The pics are about 9 months old. She's one year and 3 months now-- overdue for new pics...


Thumb of 2020-09-21/RagdollThera/3283fa


Thumb of 2020-09-21/RagdollThera/0c8c39

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Name: Susan Johnson
Defuniak Springs, FL (Zone 8b)
RagdollTherapy
Roses
Image
RagdollThera
Sep 21, 2020 6:21 AM CST
porkpal said:I have sandy soil. Adding compost when planting and periodically thereafter and mulching with any sort of organic material will help. They will also need frequent, generous watering. (At least digging planting holes is easy in sand!)

Whenever I can get hubby to comply I get him to dig very deep/wide holes and we put cow manure and potting soil with a little bone meal and rose fertilizer granules toward the bottom so the roots will find it later--then plant the rose. They all are from cuttings so are babies but all are doing ok. It seems like the ones in the pots are doing better though, growth-wise. There are about 6 of them I think may be root bound since they are so large, so I will take your (and others) advice and plant them soon. I got one of those black barrel composters on a stand that you fill and turn. It has two compartments. The problem being most of our scraps go to the chickens so I don't have much left to put in. Soon hubby is due to clean out the pen, today he says, so the chickens will be contributing...
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Name: Susan Johnson
Defuniak Springs, FL (Zone 8b)
RagdollTherapy
Roses
Image
RagdollThera
Sep 21, 2020 6:35 AM CST
seilMI said:I agree with Ken. Those 3 in 1 products sound so good but in reality you just get a watered down amount of each thing. If you don't have bugs your using product you don't need and if you do have bugs you need to ID them and then get the correct product for that bug. The fungicide is the same thing. Not all of them work as well on all diseases. ID the problem and then get the specific product for that disease. Otherwise you're wasting your time, energy and money.

The cuttings you rooted have slow growth because they are babies. It takes 3 to 5 years for a rose bush to mature. And own root cuttings may even take a little longer depending on what variety it is. Depending on where you purchased the other plants they are probably grafted roses. Those will be at least 2 years old already and with the added push of the strong growing root stock they will mature much quicker. They should do just fine in the ground.

Florida is a high pressure area for black spot because of the high humidity. The black spot spores are just out there every where all the time but they only show up when the weather conditions are right for them to bloom and grow. Disease pressure will be different every year because of differences in the weather from year to year. I live in Michigan surrounded by the Great Lakes and with high humidity too. I have a no spray garden and some years I see very little black spot and other years I am besieged with it. The best advice I can give you is to look for rose varieties that are more black spot resistant. You might want to check with a local rose society to see what roses they would suggest for your area that have a high resistance.

In the mean time, relax! The roses will not die from black spot. The roses will still bloom with black spot. So spend a little more time enjoying the blooms and less time fretting over the leaves.


That's a lot of good info! Thanks for explaining about the 3-in-1 being watered down amount of each thing--that makes sense! I ordered some of the fungicide instead and also will be looking into what others have told me about different things to use. I mentioned this in another post, but all my roses are own-root. Most were purchased from Heirloom Roses. I bought what I thought was beautiful regardless of disease resistance. Some of them are very disease resistant, many are average, and there are some I'm really struggling with. I am finished purchasing roses finally... We had lots of rain recently so that's probably why the blackspot has gotten so bad. Besieged is the best word for what's going on! Thank You!
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