Roses forum→Bare Root vs Grafted David Austins

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Name: aka Annie
WA-rural 8a to (Zone 7b)
Sandsock
Sep 26, 2020 11:40 PM CST
Well it's decided, Lady Emma Hamilton is being discontinued and my husband and I decided I should order her grafted and then try to propagate her, in case I lose her. Never having done it, I'm hoping it won't be to big of learning curve. At least I might get to test out both ways in my soil..if it works and she lives grafted.
Name: SoCal
Orange County (Zone 10a)
Lazy Gardener
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SoCalGardenNut
Sep 28, 2020 1:07 PM CST
I have Lady Emma Hamilton on own root from Regan nursery, so far so good. It's not huge, but it's first year in my yard.
I try to grow everything, sometime not successful.
Oviedo - Principality of Astur (Zone 9a)
PAPAVERSP
Nov 25, 2020 2:21 AM CST
ShawnSteve said:That's rather interesting to me, as nearly all recommendations I've ever read about planting depth of grafted roses, in warmer climates was normally the suggestion to have the graft union, above the soil line.

Perhaps, I had actually long been misled by rather old, long held practice of frequently promoted typical, poor advice.

Seil, I hadn't ever even considered trying it with grafted roses, although with grafted "tree" peonies, had learned they did better when planted deeply, to help them produce their own deeply growing roots.
Seems like that ought to work out just about as successfully, & produce better results.


Hi, it occurs the same to me. I ´ve allways heard that the graft union should be over the soil to avoid the rooting of the variety. But I´ve just bought three DA roses and the planting instructions tell that you have to put the graft point two inches below ground. Perhaps for the DA roses is better to root the variety? Or It is way to protect this point from the frost? I live in a 9 USDA zone, so I really haven´t serious frost.
I would appreciate any information over this.

Thank You!

Name: Frank Richards
Clinton, Michigan (Zone 5b)

Garden Ideas: Master Level Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
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frankrichards16
Nov 25, 2020 6:27 AM CST
seems to me that the graft union would be better protected from cold weather if it is below the soil line.I usually plant my grafted roses with the union above the soil line.

Of course the graft union is way above the soil line on a standard:)
Name: seil
St Clair Shores, MI (Zone 6a)
Roses Garden Photography Region: Michigan
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seilMI
Nov 25, 2020 5:58 PM CST
In cold climates it is recommended to plant the graft below the soil for winter protection. That isn't necessary for warmer climates and the grafts can be planted at or above soil level. Yes, a rose can go own root if the graft is sunk into the ground but that doesn't happen as easily or as often as you think. Root stocks are chosen because they are very strong growers and will not easily allow the variety to root. It wants to push that top growth, not roots.

Standards/tree roses usually have two grafts. There is one at the bottom of the trunk to the roots and one at the top of the trunk to the variety of rose. Both require winter protection. That is why tree roses are seldom recommended for cold climates. It is easy enough to protect the lower graft, like you would any rose, but the upper graft is very hard to protect from freezing temperatures. It sits way up in the air with no insulation anywhere to protect it. I have done so successfully for a few years by wrapping the upper graft in newspaper and burlap and storing in a shed but they only last about 3 years before they give up.

mudbird
Nov 30, 2020 1:32 PM CST
I'm in coastal southern CA, so a very particular micro-climate that's not consistently hot and sunny. We've got coastal influnce about 85% of the time, so ocean wind, mist, chill and clouds can persist for weeks. Fall tends towards sunny and dry typical southern CA weather. I'm growing an Abe Darby ownroot from ARE that's doing well in its first year. Other Austins that were strong growers have mostly been grafted. It's been hard to get ownroot Austins going here altho Mary Rose and Abe Darby did fine. Heritage struggles despite being bred from Iceberg which is ubiquitous in coastal Califoria. Neither Pat Austin nor Tamora which were touted for Southern CA did not thrive in my coastal garden.
I start a lot of bare root roses in the warmer spots in my garden or plant in a pot in a sunny spot to get it going before planting into a garden bed. I think the ocean chill sweeping thru really bothers baby ownroot roses and certain herbs. I can only grow thyme well if it's in pots raised above the chilly soil. I've had to plant hedges to reduce the wind blowing through - another challenge to find a hedge that can handle ocean breezes (South African and New Zealand shrubs do well)! But finally now that we've gotten a hedge to thrive, roses, herbs and vegetables are finally thriving.
Name: Steven Myers
South/Central MI/Sunset Z41 (Zone 5b)
MiGreenThumb
Dec 15, 2020 6:40 AM CST
I apologize if this has been touched on within the thread because I read through but didn't see it, but I feel it's pertinent to note that grafted roses are often sold as bare root and they are not different unless potted.
OWN root roses, which seems to be the actual query here from what I've gathered from so many wonderful responses, may also be sold BARE root.
I only wish to avoid confusion on the matter.

For Own Root or Grafted/budded, I do find that in my cold climate Z5b that roses on Dr. Huey generally aren't as impressive in the longer haul versus own-roots. Of course, there are so many variables involved.

I have Lady Emma Hamilton grafted bare root from DA I believe spring of 2014 then the oopsie The Ingenious Mr. Fairchild 2015, and was one of my firsts when I finally found the chance to get back into gardening in my adult life. I also have Winchester Cathedral from DA that year as an own root bare root rose.
LEH seems to be piddling out as of this summer and I have ordered a replacement from DA. I know it will be full of RMV just like my current one is.
WC I've moved three (?) times since I've gotten it, and it is just now starting to put on good canes and I expect more size 2021.
TIMF actually seems to want to put on size and was only suffered bad winter die-back 2026-2017 but even grafted to Dr. Huey, he seems to want to grow which I admire. It takes soooo long for him to grow thick canes. The juvenile ones are so thin and willowy. Plomph! Blooms right in the dirt.

I have Charlotte own root and where it's at, it isn't cared for but my mother says it's always blooming! It usually gets four feet high every year.

Happy planting!

Steven
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Name: aka Annie
WA-rural 8a to (Zone 7b)
Sandsock
Jan 5, 2021 12:29 PM CST
Thanks for that info. I have ordered LEH and baby her since I think it is my sandy soil is the real problem, since my weather is very temperate. I may try a cutting just as insurance and destroy it, if she takes well. DA has said they are retiring her in the UK and I would hate to lose her because my soil and/or retirement.

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