Lilies forum→Don't count your chickens...

Views: 504, Replies: 9 » Jump to the end
Name: Patrick
Midland, Michigan (Zone 6a)
Image
auratum
Oct 7, 2020 11:49 AM CST
I know we shouldn't count our chickens before they are hatched but...

For the hybridizers out there - any crosses that have made seed that you are particularly excited about from 2020?

The crosses were more limited this year due to extensive spring frost damage - I made about half as many crosses in 2020 as compared to 2019. There were 3 crosses that stood out to me - all of them were embryo rescued as they were wide crosses with lower chance of success.

#1 Pink Euphoria x Pink Jazz (OT x OT) - two flowers pollinated and 3 embryos found. Fingers crossed the embryos grow in culture.

Thumb of 2020-10-07/auratum/f37eda X Thumb of 2020-10-07/auratum/18ce1f

#2 Captain Tricolour x Miss Peculiar (O x OT) - 3 flowers pollinated and 4 embryos found. Again hope they grow.

Thumb of 2020-10-07/auratum/424bf7 X Thumb of 2020-10-07/auratum/01eb20

#3 Bombastic x Indian Summer (O x OT or Aurelian) - 4 flowers pollinated and 12 embryos found. Hoping these grow too.

Thumb of 2020-10-07/auratum/69c4bb X Thumb of 2020-10-07/auratum/7e14d2

Also there was one seedling from 2019 that was a bit of a surprise. I started my seedlings in January 2020 from the 2019 seed lots and have kept them under lights until now. I moved some outside but ran out of space in my sheltered area so the OT crosses were kept inside under lights. There is one seedling that is putting up a stem - now this is not ideal as it is time for them to go to sleep to be planted outside but nonetheless it was interesting to see an OT put up a stem in such a short growing time. The cross was Pink Jazz x JA2003285 where the pollen parent is a seedling from Jim Ault from the cross of Northern Carillon x Fogbelt Trumpet hybrid - Jim's hybrid looks like a slightly larger NC/Silk Road with a darker reverse and it is obviously pollen fertile. Pink Jazz and Silk Road/NC seedlings tend to grow really well so not too surprised a cross having both of these parents would possibly do this. Now to keep it alive to flowering...

Stem
Thumb of 2020-10-07/auratum/33558b

Cross

Thumb of 2020-10-07/auratum/f3847e X Thumb of 2020-10-07/auratum/1cf970

Name: Luka
Croatia (Zone 9a)
Köppen Climate Zone Csa
Lilies Bulbs Seed Starter Xeriscape Container Gardener Sempervivums
Enjoys or suffers hot summers Garden Photography Cat Lover Keeper of Poultry Hybridizer Region: Europe
Image
Lucius93
Oct 7, 2020 1:07 PM CST
X
Name: SteveW
Bellingham area, WA (Zone 8b)
Busy building a lily collection...
Image
Steve2020
Oct 7, 2020 2:11 PM CST
Pods are only slowly drying here due to a damp and foggy end to September and early October. (If anyone has advice on how early the pods may be picked for drying indoors it would be appreciated!) I have several crosses waiting for the pods to dry, but the more notable are:
L. sargentiae x 'White Henryi' - I'm interested to see whether a cross with Henryi-like flower form and stem bulbils might occur...
Thumb of 2020-10-07/Steve2020/7c0cf4 x Thumb of 2020-10-07/Steve2020/4abf0e

L. nepalense x 'Kushi Maya' has again been successful for me. Good embryos are not abundant, but I have a dozen or so seedlings growing from last year's crosses.
Thumb of 2020-10-07/Steve2020/fd0465 x Thumb of 2020-10-07/Steve2020/8e5039

I have also crossed yellow trumpet seedlings, Jim Ault seeds I received in the 2019 NALS seed exchange. I'd like to build up a number of these. The cross originally producing these trumpets is described as: "2N trmpt tall downfacing deep orange with violet outside similar to 'Awesome' X 2N trmpt deep lemon yellow w/ green and violet outside ('Lady Alice' x leucanthum)" so I'm also interested to see what the F2 generation might look like.
Thumb of 2020-10-07/Steve2020/48582b x Thumb of 2020-10-07/Steve2020/746abc

[Last edited by Steve2020 - Oct 7, 2020 2:19 PM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #2361819 (3)
Name: Patrick
Midland, Michigan (Zone 6a)
Image
auratum
Oct 7, 2020 3:10 PM CST
Steve2020 said:If anyone has advice on how early the pods may be picked for drying indoors it would be appreciated!


Thumb of 2020-10-07/auratum/dc0ee2

Due to frost I resorted to collecting pods early. I have not been able to find exact guidance on how long a pod needs to mature before it can be picked without damaging the seeds. When I do embryo rescue I don't do pods past 60 days after pollination as the seeds are firm and endosperm is hard so that is kind of where I draw the line. If I can get to 60 + days I will pick and let them dry naturally when I am forced to due to weather. I also spray pods with fungicide as we are quite wet this time of year and I have lost a number of pods to rot or botrytis. If I have to pick a pod before 60 days or if a pod is still very green and firm I will use the potato method where you take a potato and poke a hole with a toothpick and then cut the pedicel on the pod at an angle to allow it to be pushed into the potato. The idea is the moisture and nutrients in the potato can support the last stages of pod ripening as it dries down. Darm Crook in Zone 1 northern Canada does this as his growing season is so short and has had great success with this method.
Name: Rick R.
Minneapolis, MN, USA zone 4
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Sages The WITWIT Badge Garden Photography Region: Minnesota Hybridizer
Seed Starter Plant Identifier Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Image
Leftwood
Oct 7, 2020 5:54 PM CST
Last year was the first time I had to cut immature pods - three at the end of the season. So I am very knew to this, too.

But this year, I also cut most of my remaining pods due to weather, and quite a few. But where plausible, I chose to take a good portion of the stem with, even when pods were beginning to soften. If pods hadn't cracked, I tried to take the stem. I figured nutrients could be extracted much more efficiently from lily tissues as opposed to a potato. Shrug! Besides, didn't have any potatoes on hand.
Thumb of 2020-10-07/Leftwood/a61f88

Green ones beginning to crack open just got snipped. It's good to know I've been erring on the safe side.

your pods sure look nice, Patrick. As I am not so diligent about ferreting out compatible crosses and haven't delved into ER, I am sure I have a larger proportion of pods that initially looked good, but as time progressed, failed to develop fully. But I often let them grow anyway and see.

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers. - Socrates
Name: Patrick
Midland, Michigan (Zone 6a)
Image
auratum
Oct 7, 2020 7:06 PM CST
Leftwood said:
your pods sure look nice, Patrick. As I am not so diligent about ferreting out compatible crosses and haven't delved into ER, I am sure I have a larger proportion of pods that initially looked good, but as time progressed, failed to develop fully. But I often let them grow anyway and see.


Rick - thanks for the complement. These pods are all expected to be highly compatible based on previous year crosses. The advantage of ER is that you can weed through the iffy pods and hopefully save a few oddball crosses. Even when pods look good though I know they could be mostly chaff. The OT's can make good seed but usually not very many seeds per pod.
Name: Patrick
Midland, Michigan (Zone 6a)
Image
auratum
Oct 7, 2020 7:17 PM CST
Steve2020 said:
L. nepalense x 'Kushi Maya' has again been successful for me. Good embryos are not abundant, but I have a dozen or so seedlings growing from last year's crosses.
Thumb of 2020-10-07/Steve2020/fd0465 x Thumb of 2020-10-07/Steve2020/8e5039


Steve - this cross is quite amazing to me. L. nepalense is one of my favorites and not so easy to grow in my climate but I keep trying. I have made many pollinations onto Kushi Maya and with Kushi Maya pollen onto different species/hybrids with no success so it is great to know you have gotten seed and seedlings with this cross! I do have some seedlings growing where I crossed Rio Negro x L. nepalense where I got pollen from a friend. Hoping I can keep them alive to flower.
Name: SteveW
Bellingham area, WA (Zone 8b)
Busy building a lily collection...
Image
Steve2020
Sep 28, 2021 5:03 PM CST
Ha! It seems that just about this time last year I was worried about a damp and foggy end to September, and this year seems to be about the same... So I'm checking my pods and some certainly need more time, but looking through this forum for some reassurance I came across this useful bit of advice from Rick, from October 10th, 2012. (It seems that ripening pods is a perennial concern):

Leftwood said:All lily seed is white until they dry. If you harvest pods at "first crack", you will find the seeds next to the crack will be browning (and drying), but the seeds below will still be white and moist. When the pod is very spongy and hollow inside, the seeds are ripe enough to pick. If I do this, however, I do not open the pod until it splits on its own, which usually is not log after anyway. There may be some after-ripening going on in some species, although I don't think it has been documented. But it is well known in the closely related genus, Fritillaria.


I quote this as this is exactly what I see with some of my pods - drying seeds at the cracked end and white seeds within the pod, which turn color as they dry. I also have some pods that feel spongy, and from what Rick says these too are ripe enough to pick if the weather ahead is looking inclement. So I'll keep checking the weather and checking my pods... I thought this was good advice and worthy of re-posting in case others are facing the same dilemma. There is also other good advice in this thread from last year, so it may be good to resurrect it again...
Name: Rick R.
Minneapolis, MN, USA zone 4
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Sages The WITWIT Badge Garden Photography Region: Minnesota Hybridizer
Seed Starter Plant Identifier Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Image
Leftwood
Sep 28, 2021 7:07 PM CST
But even if it is inclement weather, if a spongy pod is still closed, I generally don't pick it (unless it is going to freeze). It can still be quite a while before it naturally cracks open on the stem. I can't really say if or how much I really gain by waiting, but it can't hurt. Even if the stem is turning yellow, incredibly, there is still water/nutrient conduction.* A pod will always dry and crack open faster if picked and brought inside compared to leaving it outside on the stem.

But I did learn last year that with those pods I had cut (see post above https://garden.org/thread/view...), several of them had their seeds germinate while still in the pod. I don't know if this happened before or as the pod cracked open. But as I waited for the pod to finish opening, the hidden seedlings dried up and died. I surmise this all happened because of the nice warm temps in the house and the ample water supply from the stems in the vases. I don't think seeds would have germinated if I had just cut the pod off like Patrick did. FYI, these were asiatic hybrids. Next time if I cut a whole stem, I will gently inspect the contents as soon as an as pod cracks, or somehow give it cooler temps to finish.

-
* I learned this from some alpines I grow, especially Orostachys. They bloom so late here in Minnesota that I'm lucky if they bloom before Halloween. They always look like the stalks are dead and shriveled, yet give them a warm day and they bloom, or as I found, I can cut the stalk and it will bloom inside the house without any water! I cut this as a completely dead looking flower stalk on November 12th, and put it in a bowl, thinking I might get some seed to drop out. Three days later, it was blooming! And the second pic is twelve days after that...
Thumb of 2021-09-29/Leftwood/dadc24

Thumb of 2021-09-29/Leftwood/977297
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers. - Socrates
Name: Rick R.
Minneapolis, MN, USA zone 4
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Sages The WITWIT Badge Garden Photography Region: Minnesota Hybridizer
Seed Starter Plant Identifier Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Image
Leftwood
Sep 28, 2021 7:13 PM CST
Steve2020 said: looking through this forum for some reassurance I came across this useful bit of advice from Rick, from October 10th, 2012.


The advantage of forums like this or the SRGC: makes it easy to look back in the archives for all that good info.
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers. - Socrates

« Garden.org Homepage
« Back to the top
« Forums List
« Lilies forum
Only the members of the Members group may reply to this thread.

Member Login:

[ Join now ]

Today's site banner is by Baja_Costero and is called "Leafy crest"

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.