Peonies forum→Brent and Becky's prices

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Name: aka Annie
WA-rural 8a to (Zone 7b)
Sandsock
Oct 8, 2020 11:15 AM CST
Does anyone have an old spring catalog from Brent and Becky's bulbs. Their website only has prices for what is available now...so I can't check what the price was on their Itoh peonies (just curious). Anyone know?

The bigger thing is the prices on their dahlia bulbs (Gallery series). Anyone have an idea of the price they were last year?

Name: LG
Nashvillle (Zone 7a)
Peonies Hummingbirder Hostas Region: Tennessee Butterflies Garden Photography
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Mieko2
Oct 8, 2020 1:10 PM CST

Moderator

Annie, I found my 2019 B&B Summer planted bulbs catalog. Here is the pricing on most of the gallery dahlias

I did find a listing for an itoh from them for $32.75.

Brent and Becky's buy most of their bulbs from Holland. I would guess that would be the case for Itohs.

Thumb of 2020-10-08/Mieko2/b9fbd1

LG - My garden grows with love and a lot of hard work.
Name: SoCal
Orange County (Zone 10a)
Lazy Gardener or Melonator
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SoCalGardenNut
Oct 8, 2020 2:10 PM CST
Holland Bulb Farms have much cheaper price, I paid $10 for Bartz Itoh, $15 for Julia Rose. I bought Cora Louise for $16 and Hilary for $20 from Holland Bulbs this Spring too for cheap. I only buy when I get free shipment.
I try to grow everything, sometime not successful.
[Last edited by SoCalGardenNut - Oct 8, 2020 9:06 PM (+)]
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Name: David
Youngstown, Ohio (Zone 6a)
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Kestrel36
Oct 8, 2020 8:07 PM CST
Nice prices, if I had saw them I wouldnt have been able to pass them up either! Drooling
Name: aka Annie
WA-rural 8a to (Zone 7b)
Sandsock
Oct 8, 2020 8:31 PM CST
Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!!!!!! I was just curious on the Itohs, but needed the dahlia pricing!!!

I keep being surprised at the prices I see on peonies from Holland and how they are usually similar to the good growers, but you get a much better product with the good growers.

Right now I have 5 mystery Itohs that I got for $10-20 each from a nursery (I have a list of what they might be, just don't know for sure) These are the ones I need to unpot and plant.

Yes, my husband has endured my price checking....every jewelry store in Vegas for a wedding ring (We both lived there at the time.)
Name: Top
Missouri (Zone 6a)
Peonies Dahlias Region: Missouri Seed Starter Zinnias Daylilies
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Topdecker
Oct 9, 2020 9:26 AM CST
Sandsock said:
I keep being surprised at the prices I see on peonies from Holland and how they are usually similar to the good growers, but you get a much better product with the good growers.


I am pretty sure that overseas growers are concerned with the price of shipping more than US growers. As a result, they grow peonies specifically for sale overseas (1 year or 2 year plants) which then have the bulk of their roots removed and they are also dried quite a bit in order to remove some water weight. What they do send has a fairly uniform size / weight and is viable, but the resulting plants are generally going to be a year or perhaps two years behind starts from US growers (that have significantly more fresh plant matter).

IMO, the dahlias that they send as clumps are much larger than the peonies that they sell. That really has me scratching my head - but the dahlia clumps are often times close to double the price of a peony.

Top
The return of perennials in the spring can feel like once again seeing an old friend
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ElPolloDiablo
Oct 10, 2020 4:41 AM CST
Topdecker said:

I am pretty sure that overseas growers are concerned with the price of shipping more than US growers. As a result, they grow peonies specifically for sale overseas (1 year or 2 year plants) which then have the bulk of their roots removed and they are also dried quite a bit in order to remove some water weight. What they do send has a fairly uniform size / weight and is viable, but the resulting plants are generally going to be a year or perhaps two years behind starts from US growers (that have significantly more fresh plant matter).

IMO, the dahlias that they send as clumps are much larger than the peonies that they sell. That really has me scratching my head - but the dahlia clumps are often times close to double the price of a peony.

Top


I've had the luck of getting a glimpse into the Dutch bulb/rhizome production system. I cannot say everything I was told so I need to be a bit vague nor was I allowed to take any pictures but I can tell this much: it's one of the most mind-bogging industries (yes, industry) I've seen in my life.

Dutch growers produce exactly the same "roots" (let's use this term) whether they are going to be shipped to Italy or Canada due to economy of scales. As you rightly suspected the plants are genetically screened to ensure they are all the same caliber when one year old and all batches have the same survival rate once planted. Mutants are monitored to see if they have desirable traits or if they should be culled and mutation rates are kept strictly under control, albeit with the present clonal reproduction tecniques the mutation rate is in the 0.001% range for most commercial varieties.

Commercially grown Dutch peonies are tiny: they are usually one year plants that will take 3-4 years to bloom. This due to the fact that peonies are not container-grown as most small and medium sized nurseries do, but are grown in the open, pulled out from the ground at the end of the season, processed, packaged and shipped all over the world. This is done because most agri land in The Netherlands has been in intense cultivation for so long nematodes and other ground-dwelling pathogens are an ever-present threat even with fumigation.

Chinese commercial growers have been trying to get a slice of the pie by taking on their Dutch competitors, but so far results have been mixed.
The great strengths of Chinese growers are two. First, they sell older plants than the Dutch, usually 2-3 year old, and second they have a truly huge selection while the Dutch focus on just a few marketable cultivars. I have a single Chinese-originated peony (Qi Hua Lu Shuang) and apart from the unintelligible "English" on the growing instructions it has long been an excellent plant and first bloomed one year after being planted.
But problems are many. First is Chinese growers struggle to obtain the USDA and/or EU certifications needed to export their products here: selling single roots on eBay or Alibaba "under the table" is not quite the same as selling whole containers full of roots like the Dutch do. Second is that, yep, scams abound, chiefly driven by how difficult it is for, say, a French import company to sue a Chinese commercial grower in China.
I'll take the seeds from Colombia and Mexico, I'll just plant 'em in the hollers down Copperhead Road.
Name: LG
Nashvillle (Zone 7a)
Peonies Hummingbirder Hostas Region: Tennessee Butterflies Garden Photography
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Mieko2
Oct 10, 2020 6:16 AM CST

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That's very interesting ElPollo. So all these folks who hate tissue cultured plants are getting them without realizing it.

What I don't like about the Dutch grown peonies is that they are rarely the variety they are sold as. Why is that so hard to accomplish? I have lost faith in Dutch grown peony roots. I'd rather pay twice the price from a US grower that will stand by the variety they have sold you.

LG - My garden grows with love and a lot of hard work.
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ElPolloDiablo
Oct 10, 2020 9:57 AM CST
Mieko2 said:That's very interesting ElPollo. So all these folks who hate tissue cultured plants are getting them without realizing it.

What I don't like about the Dutch grown peonies is that they are rarely the variety they are sold as. Why is that so hard to accomplish? I have lost faith in Dutch grown peony roots. I'd rather pay twice the price from a US grower that will stand by the variety they have sold you.



I don't think the problem are the peonies themselves: I have five Dutch-grown peonies and they are all exactly what they should be. Tulips, Ixia, xAmacrinum... never had a problem.
To avoid problems all Dutch bulbs get packaged in "retail" cardboard boxes with a large laminated picture of what's in the box on the top: boxes are designed to be opened in such a way the laminated picture will be easily visible to show what's in the box and, dare I say, tempt potential buyers. I may have pictures of these boxes somewhere. Thinking

I think the problem is the folks selling the roots and bulbs either fraudulently advertise something else or simply mix and match what they have laying about. Remember: these small "divisions" take years to bloom, so you can easily scam people. A common herbaceous peony is still less than half a Bartzella at wholesale prices. Thumbs down

Some tissue cultured plants are absolutely fine, but most still leave a lot to be desired: my mother is a huge tropical hibiscus lover and she's been complaining for years of how hard tissue-cultured hibis are to keep alive during the Winter.
I'll take the seeds from Colombia and Mexico, I'll just plant 'em in the hollers down Copperhead Road.
Name: Top
Missouri (Zone 6a)
Peonies Dahlias Region: Missouri Seed Starter Zinnias Daylilies
Irises Hummingbirder
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Topdecker
Oct 10, 2020 4:24 PM CST
That's all very good information, @ElPolloDiablo - great stuff to know.

I might take a slightly different view on Chinese vendors. I've had some unusual interactions with them for gladiola corms already.

Top
The return of perennials in the spring can feel like once again seeing an old friend
Name: aka Annie
WA-rural 8a to (Zone 7b)
Sandsock
Oct 12, 2020 5:38 PM CST
Top....I am looking at Gladiolus today...please tell me what happened...
Name: Top
Missouri (Zone 6a)
Peonies Dahlias Region: Missouri Seed Starter Zinnias Daylilies
Irises Hummingbirder
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Topdecker
Oct 12, 2020 7:00 PM CST
Sandsock said:Top....I am looking at Gladiolus today...please tell me what happened...


Amazon purchase... Said US seller. Product arrived from China and the corms were about half sized. I decided to grow them in containers. Like 3 plants bloomed and it is was not the promised variety.

Now, we're talking $7 OK - this wasn't much to get excited about. And they were glads, they did grow, and when I complained about them not be what I wanted they did try to communicate but not so well.

I will probably continue to grow the corms next year. I had traderhorn glads for reds, but honestly, nothing much to recommend them since they were not especially reliable which is probably a reflection of my heavy clay soil. (Priscilla was my favorite, btw.) The glads from China are red, but they don't have the white blotch of the traderhorns which is fine by me - and they were a shade or two brighter which is also fine by me.

Anyhow, I'm not using Amazon again for plants. That's the take away.

Top
The return of perennials in the spring can feel like once again seeing an old friend
Name: LG
Nashvillle (Zone 7a)
Peonies Hummingbirder Hostas Region: Tennessee Butterflies Garden Photography
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Mieko2
Oct 12, 2020 8:51 PM CST

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I've gotten nice, cheap, true to variety gladioli from Easy to Grow Bulbs .
LG - My garden grows with love and a lot of hard work.
Name: aka Annie
WA-rural 8a to (Zone 7b)
Sandsock
Oct 12, 2020 10:47 PM CST
Top, so sorry. As you said, at least they grew and were not ugly.

I am looking for the shorter glads...Brecks has some...trying to decide on taking a chance....I want a variety of colors...I may wait for a sale. (Easy to grow sent me barely growing plants this spring, they have all grown but tiny and not bloomed or died, just not vigorous.)

I actually am getting some specialty ones from Pleasant Valley Glads and Dahlias. He hybridized 3 shorter ones...2 yellow and one salmon, they are $2.50 and $3.00 a bulb, but I am getting dahlias much cheaper, so a little more for glads is fine. BUT he really only has the 3 colors.

Again, crazy soil...I got some glads from Costco and planted them, but hated the location in the beds and moved them last fall...lo and behold they left babies which bloomed this year.

If mine are going to multiply so fast, I don't need 12 of one color.
Name: SoCal
Orange County (Zone 10a)
Lazy Gardener or Melonator
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SoCalGardenNut
Oct 15, 2020 9:22 AM CST
I used to have gladiolus, they grow like weed here, same with freesia, I finally removed them and make room for peonies. Same with dahlias, they got so big, they overtook my garden.
I checked my record and I bought 6-7 Bartz Itohs this year for about $10 each. I will plant them as hedge. I won't waste money on expensive ones for hedge. None of my hedging plants have any flowers, just variegated leaves. So if the Itohs don't bloom here, I'm ok with that.
I try to grow everything, sometime not successful.
[Last edited by SoCalGardenNut - Oct 15, 2020 11:58 AM (+)]
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ElPolloDiablo
Oct 16, 2020 2:44 AM CST
SoCalGardenNut said:I used to have gladiolus, they grow like weed here, same with freesia, I finally removed them and make room for peonies. Same with dahlias, they got so big, they overtook my garden.
I checked my record and I bought 6-7 Bartz Itohs this year for about $10 each. I will plant them as hedge. I won't waste money on expensive ones for hedge. None of my hedging plants have any flowers, just variegated leaves. So if the Itohs don't bloom here, I'm ok with that.


I think you'll find Bartzella to be much tougher than given credit for. It's one of the toughest plants, and not merely peonies, I've seen in my life: seems immune to powdery mildew when everything else is getting hit, can even be mowned to the ground in the Spring and it will come back...
The only complaint I have, and you may want to keep an eye out, is small divisions take an inordinately long time to bloom: at $10/piece it's a steal so I expect your divisions to be on the small side, meaning you'll have to literally wait years for them to bloom. But they will eventually, just be patient.
I'll take the seeds from Colombia and Mexico, I'll just plant 'em in the hollers down Copperhead Road.
Name: SoCal
Orange County (Zone 10a)
Lazy Gardener or Melonator
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SoCalGardenNut
Oct 16, 2020 8:19 AM CST
It's from this vendor, John Scheepers, it popped up when I was ordering seeds, it says here in this link 3-5 eyes, it's sold out.
https://www.johnscheepers.com/...


I try to grow everything, sometime not successful.

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