Daylilies forum→Discussion of Dayliy Color, Terms & Definitions

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Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Daylilies Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier
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Seedfork
Oct 22, 2020 3:19 PM CST
"cherry, dark wine, and green applique"

Does this description sound right?
[Last edited by Seedfork - Dec 17, 2020 9:04 AM (+)]
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Name: Zoia Bologovsky
Stoneham MA (Zone 6a)
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Zoia
Oct 22, 2020 4:17 PM CST
Well, now we are back to the Appliqué thread. What is an appliqué? If it's only painted on white or green throats, then, no, this is a patterned eye. Confused
Name: pam
gainesville fl (Zone 8b)
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gardenglory
Oct 22, 2020 4:20 PM CST
Is that a LA description cuz its nothing like the description on website. It is bow tie affair tho, looks like mine at least.
Knowledge makes people humble, Arrogance makes people ignorant.
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Daylilies Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier
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Seedfork
Oct 22, 2020 4:34 PM CST
That is the description on this site in the daylily data base.
Daylily (Hemerocallis 'Bowtie Affair')
Name: pam
gainesville fl (Zone 8b)
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gardenglory
Oct 22, 2020 4:41 PM CST
O geeze, yea thats needs an update
Knowledge makes people humble, Arrogance makes people ignorant.
Name: Dave
Wood Co TX & Huron Co MI
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SunriseSide
Oct 22, 2020 5:44 PM CST
The description is as shown on the ADS registration database.
Life is better at the lake.
Name: Julie
Roanoke, VA (Zone 7a)
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floota
Oct 22, 2020 8:47 PM CST
This is not the first time a breeder (hybridizer) has used an incorrect descriptive term in registration. it used to drive me nuts to see the misuse of the term "Band" and "eye." When teaching that to perspective judges in classes, the subject would inevitably arise with questions about cultivars registered as having eyes when they actually had bands. Although terms are defined for anyone registering a cultivar who cares to read them, it is obvious that some read and some choose not to!! Other terms misused frequently are "self" ( I believe AHS has made some effort to correct cultivars incorrectly described as a self) "Halo" is another misunderstood and misused term, and as you show here,"appliqué" is still misunderstood and sometimes misused. And don't even get me started on form.....
[Last edited by floota - Oct 22, 2020 9:18 PM (+)]
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Name: Robin
Southern Michigan (Zone 6a)
Region: Michigan Seller of Garden Stuff Seed Starter Cat Lover Daylilies Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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RobinSeeds
Oct 22, 2020 9:27 PM CST
We're all perspective judges on here Julie...I for one would love to get you started on 'form'! I tip my hat to you.
God blessed me with dirt.
('Mipii' on The LA)
Name: Zoia Bologovsky
Stoneham MA (Zone 6a)
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Zoia
Oct 23, 2020 4:40 PM CST
I agree We are here to learn! Would you call the pattern on "Bowtie Affair" a band? And what about form? Cripate? Unusual? Spider Ratios? Bagel? I'm still trying to get a handle on all of these...
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Daylilies Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Region: Alabama
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Seedfork
Oct 23, 2020 4:47 PM CST
Learning about those things would be very interesting to me also. I would love to see discussions on describing all those things.
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4b)
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sooby
Oct 23, 2020 5:32 PM CST
Most of these terms are described in the AHS Daylily Dictionary. Here is applique for example:

https://daylilies.org/daylily-...
Name: Maurice
Grey County, Ontario (Zone 4b)
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admmad
Oct 24, 2020 7:38 AM CST
I just looked at the definition of band in the AHS Daylily dictionary. The first example shown is of 'Malachite Prism'. Band is defined as "A darker colored area just above the throat of a flower, on the petals only. If the band of color also appears on the sepals of the flowers, it is called an eye."
I would not classify 'Malachite Prism' as 'banded' but as eyed. There is an area of darker colour between the throat and the main sepal. That area is faint but it is present. The white arrow points to the eye on one of the sepals.
Thumb of 2020-10-24/admmad/b6ce6e

Of course, the registered flower description is defined as seen by the person registering the plant and under their growing conditions and location. Unfortunately, the pigments present in the eyezone are affected by temperature and light. That means an eye or a band can be different depending on where, and possibly how, it is grown. I have at least one cultivar that was registered as not having an eye. In my location and growing conditions it has an eye.

Maurice
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Daylilies Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier
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Seedfork
Oct 24, 2020 8:28 AM CST
I love this type of discussion. This is the type of information I joined a daylily club to learn, but we seldom discuss such things. Even though I have read the definition of band and eye, I know I would have called this example a band, and not a eye.
Now to get really picky: does not appear on the "sepals" mean on all the sepals or does the singular "sepal" qualify? Just throwing a pebble in the water. Whistling
Thanks Maurice!!!
I had to edit this because I stated how I would have classified it just backwards.
[Last edited by Seedfork - Oct 24, 2020 8:47 AM (+)]
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Name: pam
gainesville fl (Zone 8b)
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gardenglory
Oct 24, 2020 8:47 AM CST
Over reading terms, I learned a new one....... Had no clue thats what that part of the flower was called. It came up in reading the definition of pleating

PERIANTH TUBE
Knowledge makes people humble, Arrogance makes people ignorant.
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Daylilies Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Region: Alabama
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Seedfork
Oct 24, 2020 9:24 AM CST
One of our speakers at the daylily club was talking and that part of the daylily came up, he said he did not know the name of it and asked if anyone in the club knew, and nobody there could come up with the name at the time.
Name: Robin
Southern Michigan (Zone 6a)
Region: Michigan Seller of Garden Stuff Seed Starter Cat Lover Daylilies Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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RobinSeeds
Oct 24, 2020 12:19 PM CST
...and now, I know what the Perianth Tube is. Thanks Pam!
God blessed me with dirt.
('Mipii' on The LA)
Name: Debra
Nashville, TN (Zone 7a)
Daylilies Cat Lover Butterflies Region: Tennessee Seed Starter
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shive1
Oct 24, 2020 1:29 PM CST
I think the color descrption on the registration attempts to tells the colors in the pattern and not the petal color. Depending on the temperature, I would say there is some cherry and dark wine in there - especially when temps are in the 90s. When temps are lower, the eye colors look violet, purple and whitish lavender to me. I've never seen anything on it I would call applique though. This is an open form flower. The blooms have never been the registered 7 inches here.

Bow Tie Affair

Thumb of 2020-10-24/shive1/8367ba

[Last edited by shive1 - Oct 24, 2020 1:30 PM (+)]
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Name: Char
Vermont (Zone 4b)
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Char
Oct 24, 2020 2:12 PM CST

Moderator

I think so too, the description of Bowtie Affair is for the pattern colors and skipped the base color of the segments. The green is not an applique, it is the throat color and pattern "bleeding" together. What makes appliques distinct is there is no bleeding of color. The edges of the applique are sharp. Catcher in the Eye is a good example...the sharp edge of the applique is enhanced by the dark outline.


I would agree with "eye" on Malachite Prism, although faint, the darker color is there on the sepals. George registered it as "green and lavender with purple eyezone above large green throat". "Eyezone" is not as distinct as saying "eye".

Another find when looking at the definition for "band" was Spacecoast Dream Catcher which appears to be a patterned band from the database images and ADS image but is registered as a "halo" , "pink with rose halo above green throat".

Halo: An area of color above the throat on petals and/or sepals which is faint or only lightly visible.

Back in 2012 I wrote an article for ATP/NGA on color in daylilies. While it's missing a few of the newer definition entries it may be of interest to the color discussion.
https://garden.org/ideas/view/...

Larry, can I change your thread title to Discussion of Daylily Color: Terms & Definitions ? The terms, definitions, registration & database, all make great topics especially with winter closing in. Maybe we can have a different thread for other topics, each of the different Forms, parts of a Daylily, etc.... Thinking
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Daylilies Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Region: Alabama
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Seedfork
Oct 25, 2020 8:55 AM CST
@Char
Yes, you may change it. I do think that better suits the current discussion and more people would read it.
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Daylilies Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Region: Alabama
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Seedfork
Oct 25, 2020 9:02 AM CST
Char the photos do not show up in the article when loaded from the link. Can we somehow see the article with the photos included?
[Last edited by Seedfork - Oct 25, 2020 9:14 AM (+)]
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