Roses forum: Needing Some Guidance

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South Dakota (Zone 4a)
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sassafrass
Dec 5, 2012 2:08 PM CST
Ok, I've never been successful at growing roses. I quit even attempting after 3 yrs of failed attempts. But all these pictures are killing me.. lol So I really have to give it another shot. I am in zone 4. Can you give me some good advice on reputable growers ? Perhaps there are even some up north that I am just unable to find?

Thank you.
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
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zuzu
Dec 5, 2012 3:28 PM CST

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Oh, boy! Someone new to turn into an addict. Green Grin!

I have no experience with zone 4 gardening or nurseries, so I can't hope to give you any irrefutable advice, but I will congratulate you on your determination to give it another shot.

If I suddenly found myself living in a colder zone, I probably would buy roses from the Canadian nurseries -- Palatine and Pickering. I think both of them specify the hardiness zones on their websites, so it should be easy to find something wonderful and suitable there.

http://palatineroses.com/

http://www.pickeringnurseries.com/index.html

Many of David Austin's roses are hardy to zone 4. Take a look at the ones Cottage_Rose recently included in a post. Her zone 5 property is comparable to zone 4 because of its distinctive features.

The thread "My Hardy David Austin Roses" in Roses forum

It's easy to find roses suitable for your zone by using the "search by characteristics" feature on the main rose page of the database. There are many for zone 4 and even for zone 3.

[Edited to remove links that weren't working]
[Last edited by zuzu - Dec 11, 2012 12:21 AM (+)]
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Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
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zuzu
Dec 5, 2012 3:30 PM CST

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Sorry, those links don't work for some reason. Just check zone 4b or 3 on the "search by characteristics" form to get a list of roses.
South Dakota (Zone 4a)
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sassafrass
Dec 5, 2012 9:10 PM CST
thanks zuzu! Guess I'll just add it to my Iris and Lily addiction.. lol I must admit those David Austin one's sure have caught me... hook, line, n sinker!
I'll try doing a search on here to see what all else I can come up with.. Thank you!
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
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porkpal
Dec 5, 2012 10:40 PM CST
I don't think there is any limit to the number of addictions that one is allowed to have. By all means add roses!
Porkpal
Name: Toni
Denver Metro (Zone 5a)
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Skiekitty
Dec 6, 2012 10:15 AM CST
Sassa - I'm zone 5-4, and I have a ton of roses. Not a 3rd as many as Zuzu, but quite a few for this cold of a zone (over 300). What I do is bury them extremely deep and cover them with a TON of mulch. Winter watering is a MUST for my dry climate, but if you have snow, you won't have to winter water. You probably have a bad wind problem as well. This is what I would do in your case:

Buy own-root if possible. Budded roses may not survive the extreme cold as easily as own-root.
Dig a hole a minimum of 12" deep. Preferably deeper. If you buy budded, you will need to put the bud at LEAST 2 inches below the surface. I try to put the bud union 4" below the surface.
Mulch Mulch Mulch Mulch Mulch. I use Western Cedar mostly, but I put a BARE MINIMUM of 4-6" of mulch around the base of the rose. Technically, my entire yard is mulch (I have to remulch it this summer as the front yard has decayed to the point that it's only about 2-4" thick now). This will protect the rose from the thaw/refreeze part, plus retain moisture in the dry, dissicating winds.
Feed heavily in the spring time. Spring, when it's safe to feed, is grow-time, so you want those babies to GROW GROW GROW!
Do NOT trim or deadhead after Labor Day. I stop feeding mid-August and stop deadheading/pruning in beginning of September. That way, the roses have a clue to stop flowering & start preparing for winter.
Do NOT prune until after the forsythias bloom. When you prune, that signals the rose to grow. If they start to grow & you get a late cold snap, you can easily kill the rose. Trust me. Crying So you just have to be patient. I don't pay attention to the lilacs.. lilacs are retarded & bloom no matter what Spring throws them. But forsythias.. those are more intelligent and will only bloom when it's safe to.

I don't pay attention to zones when it comes to my roses. I think well over 60% of my roses are zone 6 and probably 30% are zone 7. Now as of late we haven't we had a real winter, but my losses have dramatically gone down ever since I've been doing these things. I just put in the ground this past Sunday (12/2) 11 roses from Palatine (http://palatineroses.com/search/?gs=) and what I did with these guys was I watered pretty heavily 2 days before so that the ground was nice & soft, dug the whole about 14-16" deep and about 12" around, put each rose in the ground so that the bud union was at LEAST 4" deep, refilled the hole with MiracleGro Tree/Shrub soil & native soil, then put my "bucket" (what a "bucket" is is I get a 2-5gal black pot from a plant I bought earlier in the season and cut off the bottom so that it's a rigid black tube) around then filled the bucket 100% with mulch. It will cover the canes completely, but this time of year, the canes don't need to be exposed as that will actually be bad for them. Then, in the spring once the forsythias bloom, I'll remove the buckets and move a LITTLE of the mulch away so that the tips of the canes are exposed. I won't expose the entire cane until after Mother's Day.

I hope some of this helps.
Roses are one of my passions! Just opened, my Etsy shop (to fund my rose hobby)! http://www.etsy.com/shop/TweetsnTreats
Name: Steve
Prescott, AZ (Zone 7b)
Region: Southwest Gardening Roses
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Steve812
Dec 29, 2012 2:18 PM CST
I think Toni's advice is excellent. Those techniques will definitely move one toward success in colder areas. I know I need to practice some of them myself here in zone 7b.

That said, weather in South Dakota can get far colder than weather near Denver. But, more importantly, it can stay cold for far longer, freezing soil more deeply. I'm not sure I'd recommend to someone starting with roses in SD that they ignore cold hardiness zones completely. Instead, I'd be inclined to suggest they start by planting cold-hardy roses. Most of the roses bred by Griffith Buck, Rudolf Geschwind, or Felicitas Svejda would be good choices for consideration. Most of these are really tough roses bred especially for zone 4 or 5 winters.

As Zuzu suggested, Palatine and Pickering might be good places to look . (BTW.. is it true that Pickering can no longer ship to the US? they cancelled my order saying that their plants would no longer clear customs.) Palatine has recently added quite a few Geschwind roses to their list. I think many of David Austin's roses would be excellent choices (see David Austin roses site). Chamblees was once considered to be a good source for Buck roses, too.

Bear in mind that hybrid tea roses are going to be the most difficult to nurture through the winter. There might be some Brownell cultivars that can be nursed through without much problem. They have a reputation for being over-propagated and plagued with virus - but I'm not sure whether either of those rumors represents a real problem. Some of the hybrid tea roses bred by Kordes might work. Many floribundas will be a little easier than hybrid tea roses to be successful with. Old garden roses from the hybrid perpetual, alba, or gallica classes are likely to be reliably cold hardy. Climbing roses with more multiflora, rugosa, and setigera influence are also likely to do well. There are more articles at RoseFile about some of these classes, and one about cold hardy roses. For old garden roses and climbers, Vintage Gardens can be an invaluable source. There will be a few good choices at Antique Rose Emporium, too: Alchymist, Baltimore Belle, Dortmund, Gartendirektor Otto Linne and Long John Silver for example.

Check out the Sam Kedem rose site and High Country Roses for more ideas. Maybe make a pilgrimage to Kedem nursery once you have become a rosaholic. Whistling

Or just plant Quadra.

[Last edited by Steve812 - Dec 29, 2012 2:22 PM (+)]
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Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
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zuzu
Dec 29, 2012 2:23 PM CST

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I hadn't heard anything about Pickering's customs problems, but I didn't order anything from them this year. I wonder what happened. My Palatine order cleared customs with no problem. It would be a shame to lose Pickering as a supplier, especially now that Palatine has ceased to carry Austin roses.
South Dakota (Zone 4a)
Charter ATP Member Region: United States of America Daylilies Irises Farmer Seed Starter
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sassafrass
Dec 29, 2012 2:41 PM CST
I thank all of yall very much for your time and information! I will definitely take everything into consideration. Group hug
Name: Toni
Denver Metro (Zone 5a)
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.
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Skiekitty
Dec 29, 2012 3:15 PM CST
zuzu said:I hadn't heard anything about Pickering's customs problems, but I didn't order anything from them this year. I wonder what happened. My Palatine order cleared customs with no problem. It would be a shame to lose Pickering as a supplier, especially now that Palatine has ceased to carry Austin roses.


This is what is on the front page of Pickering:

AMERICAN CUSTOMERS: We are unable to ship to the USA at present. Due to a desire by agriculture departments to “re-interpret” existing rules we are unable to ship roses to the United States this season. Yes, these plants have been produced in the same manner as those we have shipped to our US customers since about 1960. Please be aware that whatever hardship and annoyance you’re feeling about not being able to receive an order, this business (it’s employees and owner) will suffer worse.
Roses are one of my passions! Just opened, my Etsy shop (to fund my rose hobby)! http://www.etsy.com/shop/TweetsnTreats
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses
Clematis Irises Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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zuzu
Dec 29, 2012 3:20 PM CST

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Poor Pickering. I wonder if this will happen to Hortico and Palatine too.
Name: Joanne
Calgary, AB Canada (Zone 3a)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Region: Canadian Charter ATP Member Seed Starter Roses
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Joannabanana
Jan 3, 2013 10:37 PM CST
All great advice for growing roses in tough climates. I only thing I may add is consider buying a "potted" healthy looking rose to start. Transplanting it will be a bit easier than working with a bare root. This is the best place for advice on growing roses, for sure.

Too bad regarding customs & Pickerings. They are a great supplier.

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