Roses forum→Miniature Roses Help

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Name: Daniel
Los Angeles (Zone 10b)
Image
Dciau1
Nov 8, 2020 5:42 AM CST
Hello everyone,

I hope you're all doing well!

I bought some miniature roses from my grocery store and they have about 5/6 miniature roses.

I believe to give them the best chance to do well I need to separate them however, my first try went horrible so i'm a bit anxious and need a game plan before going in (:

I was wondering if anyone had advice?

Is this the best time (in california) to separate the roses?

Should I make any cuts?

Would it be wise to make a small greenhouse for them while they recover?
Like when propagating roses?

Should I even separate them to begin with?

Thumb of 2020-11-08/Dciau1/d16a99
Thumb of 2020-11-08/Dciau1/4b381e

Here are the miniature roses in question!
They're inside rn because it was raining yesterday I usually have then outside in my balcony (:
[Last edited by Dciau1 - Nov 8, 2020 11:50 AM (+)]
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Name: seil
St Clair Shores, MI (Zone 6a)
Roses Garden Photography Region: Michigan
Image
seilMI
Nov 8, 2020 11:25 AM CST
Separating these roses is extremely difficult because they are very newly rooted cuttings. The "root balls". if you can call them that, are very tiny and separating them always causes some root damage. Cause too much root damage and the tiny rose is doomed. I've tried many times to separate them with no luck but I do know others have managed it with some success. Now I just plant them all together as one rose. Eventually the stronger plants will take out the weaker ones and you'll end up with the best plants.
Name: Daniel
Los Angeles (Zone 10b)
Image
Dciau1
Nov 8, 2020 11:47 AM CST
Hello Seil!

That makes sense! (:
This was my original idea; repot them and try to give them some breathing room by making them grow outwards

My concern is that I won't be able to get enough space for any of the mini rose plants to do well since I have to rely on pots
However, that could potentially be in my favor since it would potentially weed off the weaker rose plants earlier?
Name: seil
St Clair Shores, MI (Zone 6a)
Roses Garden Photography Region: Michigan
Image
seilMI
Nov 8, 2020 5:16 PM CST
Daniel, my best advice is don't be afraid to experiment. That is the very best way to learn about your roses. Yes, there will be some disasters. In gardening of any kind that is to be expected. But every situation is different and if you don't try new things you will never know what works best for you. If you google ways to root cuttings or grow seeds you will find that EVERYONE has their own best method that works for them. They're all just a little bit different. Trial and error is the only way to find the one that works for you. And it's part of the fun of growing roses.

When I first started I had 16 roses in pots in Michigan that I needed to find a way to winter over. Everyone told me that the only way was in a garage and that was still iffy at best. I have NO garage! So I had to find a way to winter them outside. I created my own plan of storing them in a berm of burlap filled with leaves. People literally told me I was nuts. It would never work. I did it anyway and ALL 16 of those roses came back the next spring! Yes, like everyone else I do lose roses to the winter sometimes but that usually spurs me to try harder the next time. Try something new or different and see what happens. A lot of things I talk about I learned the hard way by trying them out on my roses and seeing the results. It is the best way I know how to learn. If I lose a rose I just think of it as an opportunity to buy another one! There's always something new out there I want, lol!
Name: Daniel
Los Angeles (Zone 10b)
Image
Dciau1
Nov 9, 2020 9:57 AM CST
Thank you Seil (:

I think i'm just going to take the safer and less dramatic route and repot them into a larger pot and try to give them space by growing them outwards and see what happens they'll probably eventually slowly die off if they don't have enough room but my hope is that at least 1/2 will come out victorious (:

I think next time i'll try to have a singular mini delivered even it's more pricey haha

I think these months have been a huge learning experience already and I thank you for all the help (:

That's a great story haha I definitely need to just try new things and see what happens on my own (:
I think at the moment it's a bit hard because my resources are limited so I really like planning stuff out before trying them



Name: Daniel
Los Angeles (Zone 10b)
Image
Dciau1
Nov 9, 2020 1:03 PM CST
In the spirit of experimenting,

I decided to split one rose and then repot the other and see which does best (:

Thumb of 2020-11-09/Dciau1/75916c

Compared to my first try, they have a lot better roots and more roots

I did have to cut some roots but hopefully it'll make a recovery

Here they are potted (:

Thumb of 2020-11-09/Dciau1/096b27

I think I might try greenhousing 2 of them and see how that turns out


[Last edited by Dciau1 - Nov 9, 2020 2:42 PM (+)]
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Name: Daniel
Los Angeles (Zone 10b)
Image
Dciau1
Nov 9, 2020 1:10 PM CST

Thumb of 2020-11-09/Dciau1/74e146

SW Ohio River Valley (Zone 6b)
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vaporvac
Nov 9, 2020 4:34 PM CST
They look great. It's not a problem for them to get rain, btw. Roses seem to prefer it to tap water. It there's good drainage rain isn't a problem. When I repot, I try to keep the rootball with its soil intact by putting soil in the bottom of the new pot and filling in around the old potted rose while it sits in the new, if that makes sense. Then I hold my hand over the soil of the old potted rose, invert it after slightly squeezing the pot to loosen it. Then it's easy to plonk in the new pot without root disturbance. In your climate, this may not be a problem. Keep us posted!
[Last edited by vaporvac - Nov 9, 2020 10:01 PM (+)]
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Name: seil
St Clair Shores, MI (Zone 6a)
Roses Garden Photography Region: Michigan
Image
seilMI
Nov 9, 2020 4:42 PM CST
They look pretty good. All you can do now is wait and see. Good Luck!
Name: Daniel
Los Angeles (Zone 10b)
Image
Dciau1
Nov 9, 2020 6:10 PM CST
Hey Vaporvac!

I was more avoiding the rain because they were all recently watered like a day before the rain came (bad choice on my part haha)
Oh! That makes sense! at least the way i'm visualizing it haha

Thank you Seil (:

I'll keep you both posted and hopefully they'll do well!

Name: Daniel
Los Angeles (Zone 10b)
Image
Dciau1
Nov 10, 2020 3:58 PM CST

Thumb of 2020-11-10/Dciau1/3a9cbb

Day 2:

The uncovered roses leaves seem to be significantly more droopy than those without the cover

I'm thinking about just green-housing all of them because it makes sense to me lol but i'm not sure if I should
Name: seil
St Clair Shores, MI (Zone 6a)
Roses Garden Photography Region: Michigan
Image
seilMI
Nov 10, 2020 8:57 PM CST
They may be experiencing transplant shock. Give them some time. Putting covers on them is risky too. With too much humidity they may rot. It's a tricky business.
Name: Daniel
Los Angeles (Zone 10b)
Image
Dciau1
Nov 10, 2020 9:10 PM CST
I think they're definitely experiencing transplant shock but it's interesting that the greenhouse ones seem to have more stable leaves than those who aren't greenhoused (:

I think this whole process has a lot of hazards!

Rotting is definitely a concern, I might greenhouse them in the beginning and slowly wean them off as they get more stable (like 2/3 weeks?)


Name: Arturo Tarak
Bariloche,Rio Negro, Argentina (Zone 8a)
Roses Dahlias Irises Plant Lover: Loves 'em all!
hampartsum
Nov 11, 2020 3:59 AM CST
Daniel , I use your exact same greenhouse method for individual plants. A few things I found out: You can gradually harden off your interns by letting the bottle stand without the top cap. Next you can place a twig or a narrow piece of something, lifting the bottle only slightly to generate a slight draft from below. All of this in a well lit but shaded position. Direct sunlight will steam and cook your interns. All of these I learnt just like Seil, the hard way. However, its smart not to copy the recognized errors of the rest of us. If this weren't true we would be still trying to invent the wheel or stand shivering in a winter prehistoric cave.... nodding
Arturo
Name: Daniel
Los Angeles (Zone 10b)
Image
Dciau1
Nov 11, 2020 2:23 PM CST
Thumb of 2020-11-11/Dciau1/776b86

Day 3:

Took off some leaves for the 2 droopy ones and greenhoused them for a day but decided not to continue that just because of the risk of rotting

One of the roses seems to have some yellowing which I believe might just be from transplant shock

I've been monitoring the soil and it's has moisture but not wet and muddy so I don't think the water is an issue


I think I just need to let them take their course (: so i'm going to just take pictures without messing with them for now on
[Last edited by Dciau1 - Nov 11, 2020 2:28 PM (+)]
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Name: Rema
Montreal (Zone 5b)
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Rema
Nov 11, 2020 4:51 PM CST
I would cut the buds
Name: Daniel
Los Angeles (Zone 10b)
Image
Dciau1
Nov 12, 2020 4:27 PM CST
Thumb of 2020-11-12/Dciau1/65ab06

Day 4:
They seem to be the exact same as yesterday which is a good thing (:
In my last experience, once I made it past a first week the roses started to go downhill I believe this is because of the extreme overwatering

I'm getting better quality soil tommorow and want to repot them so they'll do better but feel like I shouldn't :P


@rema
I cut off the developing buds but wasn't sure whether or not to cut off the spent blooms since I don't want to promote new growth just yet (:
I'll probably cut them off though!

@hampartsum
Thank you for the advice i'll probably start doing that in 2 weeks (:
I'm not sure if I should move them out of the direct sunlight... I know they'll get very hot but also it's been getting significantly cooler ( in terms of california haha) here and the warmth might help out :P

Name: Arturo Tarak
Bariloche,Rio Negro, Argentina (Zone 8a)
Roses Dahlias Irises Plant Lover: Loves 'em all!
hampartsum
Nov 12, 2020 4:41 PM CST
Dciau1 said:Thumb of 2020-11-12/Dciau1/65ab06



@rema
I cut off the developing buds but wasn't sure whether or not to cut off the spent blooms since I don't want to promote new growth just yet (:
I'll probably cut them off though!




I suggest that you dead-head your spent blooms. Leaving spent blooms will direct scarce available resources in setting/growing a hip. By removing the spent bloom, instead it will concentrate the plant's energy in improving/expanding the root ball or set new leaves. If new growth comes to show, that would be a good omen. However yes, you don't want it to put up new blooms yet, so disbudding is a good strategy.

Arturo
Name: Daniel
Los Angeles (Zone 10b)
Image
Dciau1
Nov 12, 2020 7:57 PM CST
Thank you Arturo (:

I cut the blooms!

Thumb of 2020-11-13/Dciau1/af13c9
As I was cutting the blooms, I noticed these yellow spots were on all the roses leaves

I'm thinking it's the stress? Or maybe I indeed have too much water and should repot them asap?
Name: Daniel
Los Angeles (Zone 10b)
Image
Dciau1
Nov 13, 2020 5:28 PM CST

Thumb of 2020-11-13/Dciau1/d86640

I decided to check the roots and it appears that the roots rotted

My experiment failed one again but it's ok

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