Roses forum→Rose Rosette

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Name: Maggie
Southern California (Zone 10b)
Mcmag2009
Jan 9, 2021 5:24 PM CST
Hello!

I've just discovered this forum while looking for information on the possible fate of one or more of my roses.

I planted 6 rose bushes back in September from 5 gallon containers after thoroughly amending the soil.

Pictured is one of the newest canes on one of my bushes.
- It is easily 1/2 in diameter, unlike any of the previous growth of this plant.
- It's quite thorny and red at the top but the bottom where it connects to the plant is green.
- Some of the thorns closer to the newest growth are pliable, others are firmer but probably not as firm as those on other parts of the plant.
- There are currently no "witches broom" formations.
- The leaves produced seem quite healthy and are turning green.

I basically don't know if this is an issue caused by rose rosette disease or if it's a part of my rose becoming established where it's been planted.

Thank you for your time and assistance!
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Name: seil
St Clair Shores, MI (Zone 6a)
Roses Garden Photography Region: Michigan
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seilMI
Jan 9, 2021 6:51 PM CST
That is perfectly normal new growth on a healthy and happy new rose! Congrats! Enjoy!

Seriously, MANY roses have red new growth that turns green as it matures. Also most all thorns do start out soft and harden up as they mature. New growth is always a bit tender to begin with. Your rose looks very good and I don't see anything here you need to worry about.

Do you know the name of the rose? Post pictures when it blooms, please!
Name: Maggie
Southern California (Zone 10b)
Mcmag2009
Jan 9, 2021 7:12 PM CST
Oh what a relief to hear!

It is an About Face!

I'll add photos from the last time it bloomed! I'm excited for the coming season!

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SW Ohio River Valley (Zone 6b)
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vaporvac
Jan 9, 2021 8:05 PM CST
Those look like vigorous new canes to me. Many roses have canes that start out very red and Thorns that are initially pliable. The Green in the middle of the blooms is called proliferation and may be due to excess nitrogen but I've never really read a perfect explanation for that.
Name: Daisy I
Reno, Nv (Zone 6b)
Not all who wander are lost
Garden Sages Plant Identifier
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DaisyI
Jan 10, 2021 3:20 PM CST
Because you live in SoCal, you will have to force your roses into a dormancy by pulling off any leaves left after you prune. When I lived in a warmer climate, I pruned my roses in November and pulled all their leaves then.

Without dormancy, the life expectancy of the rose will be less.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=...

I hope this link works. I'm on my tablet and attachments are tricky.
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and proclaiming...."WOW What a Ride!!" -Mark Frost

President: Orchid Society of Northern Nevada
Webmaster: osnnv.org
Coastal Southern California (Zone 13a)
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jerijen
Jan 10, 2021 3:44 PM CST
Actually, in Southern California these days, dormancy is pretty much non-existent.

If you only planted your roses in September DON'T PRUNE THEM NOW!!! It may well be 90 deg. in a few days, for Heaven's sake.

Don't remove their leaves, either. Your plants are just now trying to grow, and they need the energy those leaves give them.
Name: Daisy I
Reno, Nv (Zone 6b)
Not all who wander are lost
Garden Sages Plant Identifier
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DaisyI
Jan 10, 2021 3:52 PM CST
Roses really do need dormancy. They are temperate plants being forced to live in a tropical world but they still need dormancy.

https://www.gardenandgreenhous...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and proclaiming...."WOW What a Ride!!" -Mark Frost

President: Orchid Society of Northern Nevada
Webmaster: osnnv.org
[Last edited by DaisyI - Jan 10, 2021 3:53 PM (+)]
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Name: seil
St Clair Shores, MI (Zone 6a)
Roses Garden Photography Region: Michigan
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seilMI
Jan 10, 2021 5:31 PM CST
Sorry, I'm with Jeri on this one, Daisy. IF they were established plants of a couple of years or more then I would say go ahead and force what passes for dormancy in warm climates if you wish. But these are brand new recently planted roses. They need to establish themselves and get some size and roots. A lot of people never prune 1st year roses except for dead wood. And they need those leaves to feed the plant so it can produce a big healthy root ball. Some people will disbud a new rose but I don't believe in that either. The rose would not put on buds if it did not feel it could support them to bloom. They are smarter than we think!

Pulling all the leaves does not actually force any kind of dormancy. The rose does not stop growing because you pulled all its leaves off. Dormancy is a period where the temperatures are too low for growth and the roses STOP growing altogether. It is too cold for the fluids in the rose canes to move up and down the stem to feed the plant so it can not produce growth. They sit dormant with no growth of any kind until temperatures come up to a point where the fluid is moving again in the canes and they can begin to grow again. All striping the leaves does is make the rose expend a large amount of energy all over again to produce more leaves. As long as the temperatures are warm enough for the fluids to move the rose is awake and growing.
Name: Daisy I
Reno, Nv (Zone 6b)
Not all who wander are lost
Garden Sages Plant Identifier
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DaisyI
Jan 10, 2021 11:42 PM CST
You're right. The roses have been in the ground only a couple months, they shouldn't be pruned this year. But I was talking about roses grown in warm areas being forced into some sort of psuedo-dormancy for long term health. In future years, force 'dormancy'.
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and proclaiming...."WOW What a Ride!!" -Mark Frost

President: Orchid Society of Northern Nevada
Webmaster: osnnv.org
Name: Rosemary
Sacramento, CA (Zone 9b)
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reh0622
Jan 11, 2021 12:26 AM CST
So let's say they were planted in ground last winter from bareroot. They are now one year old. Should they be pruned and leaves stripped? How about if they have lived in a pot for one year? Maybe it depends on the rose and how many canes it has and how much it grew? What if it came in a band and it is very small and twiggy (that would make sense to me not to prune or if it was super small in a pot)? Are different types treated differently? (types being F, HT's, and Cl., and shrubs at the one year mark(I know certain OGR and climbers are treated differently)? I did hear from another rosarian not to prune one year rose plants at all. So I am just double-checking because I haven't read it in any written materials/books. I was also surprised to find out that rose trees should be not be pruned as a regular rose (urn shaped), but rather lollipop-shaped, and should not be interiorly pruned, and probably shouldn't be pruned at all the first 2-3 years. Love to hear your comments on this for Zone 9, jerijen or others with a lot of experience.
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Forum moderator Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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zuzu
Jan 11, 2021 1:56 AM CST

Moderator

Don't ever strip the leaves in zone 9, Rosemary. I have never forced dormancy and many of the roses in my garden are more than 30 years old. One of the hybrid teas is almost 90 years old and still going strong. If that isn't a show of "long-term health," I don't know what is.

Here's an article I wrote about rose pruning a few years ago. This should answer some of your questions.

https://garden.org/ideas/view/...
Name: Rosemary
Sacramento, CA (Zone 9b)
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reh0622
Jan 11, 2021 2:21 PM CST
Thank You, Zuzu. I read the article, and I am very surprised about not stripping the leaves, something I've always done (they say it's to prevent disease). In fact, I was organizing my many rose books a couple of weeks ago, and ended up reading most of The Rose Bible by Rayford Clayton Reddell who was a rose nurseryman in Petaluma, CA, which I imagine is Zone 9, and he says to strip all the leaves off (or cut to prevent damage) two weeks before pruning, because that will allow the bud to swell so you can see the best place to prune the cane where good growth will occur. So armed with that new knowledge, I began stripping most of my potted roses that are one or two years old, all my tree roses, a few in-ground roses, and all of the smaller and actually weaker roses, one newly transplanted, at the public rose garden where I volunteer. Then, I went ahead and pruned most of my potted roses, anyways. I've almost always adhered to the "less than a pencil width" because I found less than that, the blooms will be too heavy for the stem, esp. on my large (inground) Abraham Darby.

But it does explain why we had an offer by another experienced rose nurseryman from the Bay Area who had volunteered to do our public garden in Nov., and we turned them down because we thought it was important to leave the leaves on as long as possible (they also strip the leaves after pruning). Now I learn from you that Nov. could be a viable option (they also put down slow release fertilizer at that time as well which seemed too early to me) with the leaves being left on, for Zone 9. The former chairperson of this garden who mentored me has said that there are as many different opinions and ways of doing things as there are experts. The local ARS (which I joined for the first time last rose season and attended 4 rose pruning workshops) says to strip all the leaves off after pruning and suggest spraying with a dormant spray. It can be confusing, but I actually like hearing all the differing views and considering each. I guess the bottom line is roses are tough and there's no one way of rose culture.

What we do want, are roses, roses, roses, and what we want to avoid are plants that for one reason or other are no longer producing roses or no new canes, and what you get are a lot of "blind eyes" on the canes they do have. I've dealt with that before, and saw the bush die before it could be saved or rejuvenated. Now it looks like one of my rose trees is full of blind eyes forming so I plan to prune it down to what looks like viable blooming buds to me. I think that would have been avoided if I had stopped cutting roses in Oct. like it's suggested around here, and letting the bush go "dormant."

But thank you, again for sharing the enlightening post and article from your experience. Thank You!
Name: Dennis Brown
The Big Island, Hawaii
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kohala
Jan 11, 2021 3:12 PM CST
I must say that the differing views on pruning are bewildering. I spoke to one rose expert in Honolulu who indicated that because we have no dormancy period I can prune anytime. Last fall we had lots of rain and black spot and powdery mildew attacked. Also, my roses became so tall I couldn't manage them. So I stripped all the leaves and pruned the canes to about 12 inches. I've done this twice a year. My roses grew new leaves in about a month and bloomed in two months or so.

As far as I can tell from the posts above, my pruning method is all wrong. Maybe it's the case that my growing conditions are so ideal that no matter what I do I can't harm my roses.
Name: seil
St Clair Shores, MI (Zone 6a)
Roses Garden Photography Region: Michigan
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seilMI
Jan 11, 2021 4:04 PM CST
Pruning varies a great deal by location, Dennis. What I do would never work in your location and vise versa. And many of the old rules have since been updated because, like everything else, new research has brought new things to light. Old practices in all types of gardening have changed over recent years and roses are no exception. I know a lot of the old rose books are revered for their basic information but things do change with time, learning and experience. When I started out I followed all the rules my Mother and Grandmother had taught me religiously. But over time, with new information and my own experiences, I have changed a lot of my thinking. I listen better to what my roses tell me they want to do and try and work with them instead of trying to tell them what I want them to do. They seem to be happier for it!

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