Daylilies forum→Daylily Form

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Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Daylilies Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Region: Alabama
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Seedfork
Feb 5, 2021 9:18 AM CST
Judging for form seems to be giving me more trouble than any other of the terms used in evaluating plants in the garden. Just how do you evaluate a plant for Form? There are certainly some forms I don't like, but I can't see adding or deducting for form just because I don't personally like it. When someone is judging a registered plant or a seedling and judging it for form, (not deciding what the form should be) but actually judging for form, what would be the criteria?
Name: Roger & Karen
Birmingham, Al (Zone 7a)
Daylilies Plant and/or Seed Trader Region: Alabama Butterflies Enjoys or suffers hot summers Seed Starter
Hummingbirder Critters Allowed
Diggerofdirt
Feb 5, 2021 9:47 PM CST
Just a shot in the dark.
Proportion.
Thumb of 2021-02-06/Diggerofdirt/e3dddf


Thumb of 2021-02-06/Diggerofdirt/372550

Every home needs a daylily, and every daylily needs a home.
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Daylilies Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Region: Alabama
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Seedfork
Feb 5, 2021 10:21 PM CST
Well, of course that makes sense. And when I went back and read over the manual again I found this.
"Flower form is almost or fully equal to color in setting one flower apart from another. Differences in form, e.g., round or star-like, flaring or recurved, round, broad, ruffled, plain, flat, twisted, fluted, lily-shaped are of little importance except as interpreted by the evaluator. These factors usually boil down to evaluator preference. Form is important when flowers consistently are uniform and are sufficiently flat and face outward to display their colors well. Malformed flowers, dissimilarity of segment shape, and lack of uniformity in placement of perianth segments are undesirable aspects of form."

But when I saw judging for form this is what I thought they were speaking of.
Daylily blooms have a wide array of forms. Currently, only six forms have been officially defined by the ADS for the purpose of registration records:
• Single
• Double
• Unusual Form
• Spider
• Polymerous
• Sculpted

Also it mentions subforms:
Informal.Segments have no definable shape and placement may be irregular, widely spaced, or floppy.
So how would you judge an informal bloom for form?

DaviJK
Feb 6, 2021 7:20 AM CST
Larry

The rules of garden judging have evolved as forms have also evolved. At one time, a "perfect" form was one that was symmetrical. On a large flower, for instance, each petal was to look exactly the same. If two of three were recurved and the third was sticking out straight or canoed, that is deemed a fault. But the evolution of unusual forms, spiders, and sculpted forms could not be judged by that standard of symmetry. Part of the beauty of those forms are their often informal look when flowers may appear differently at different times of the day and often no two flowers looked exactly alike.

Marking down on form would happen when the cultivar does not match its registration data....For example, if the cultivar is registered as a double and you are not observing much doubling or if the cultivar was registered as 100% polymerous and you observe no or few polymerous blooms, or if the plant is registered as cristate and you are not seeing any cristate tissue. If a plant is registered as an usual form (crispate-cascade) a garden judge could expect the informal variations which are not faults but typical of that registered form.

This is where proper registration is important. The registrar will register a plant based on what the hybridizer claims. There have been MANY plants misregistered of late. So if you see the registration data says the plant is an unusual form crispate and you aren't observing any pinching at the petal ends, the garden judge can mark the plant down for form. If the plant has been registered as a cascade and you are not observing the curling on segments typical of that form, the plant can and should be marked down on form. If a plant has been registered as a sculpted cristate and you see few that have cristate tissue on a whole clump, that would also be a markdown for form. It does penalize emerging forms to some extent. But the intent is to reinforce registration rules and discourage misregistrations.
[Last edited by DaviJK - Feb 6, 2021 7:24 AM (+)]
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Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Daylilies Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Region: Alabama
Image
Seedfork
Feb 6, 2021 7:39 AM CST
Thanks, for that info. It is the last sentence that really brought into focus why I was having such a hard time, "the intent is to reinforce registration rules and discourage misregistrations. "
I just could not figure out why I would be judging a plant on form and how I would quantify that, now I see it is not the plant form itself is being judged my me, it is the application form filled out by the hybridizer that is being judged.
[Last edited by Seedfork - Feb 6, 2021 7:52 AM (+)]
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DaviJK
Feb 6, 2021 8:10 AM CST
Judging form is only part of your job as a garden judge as you are looking at the complete plant....foliage, presentation, color and substance, rebloom, and many other things that go into making great plants that deserve awards.
Name: Roger & Karen
Birmingham, Al (Zone 7a)
Daylilies Plant and/or Seed Trader Region: Alabama Butterflies Enjoys or suffers hot summers Seed Starter
Hummingbirder Critters Allowed
Diggerofdirt
Feb 6, 2021 8:22 AM CST
This also was told to me. Jessie and Terah George always registered .5 to 1 inch smaller so people could show them. Different zones cant grow and reach size that some registered at.
Every home needs a daylily, and every daylily needs a home.
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Daylilies Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Region: Alabama
Image
Seedfork
Feb 6, 2021 8:40 AM CST
I just think a bloom should be measured with a ruler, not with a show category in mind.
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Daylilies Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Region: Alabama
Image
Seedfork
Feb 6, 2021 9:02 AM CST
Well, it just struck me that as a garden judge, I don't think one should be concerned with what the hybridizer put on his registration form.
Now for a show judge that would make some sense (I am not into that part of the daylily world). But as a garden judge I want to be judging the plant for all those things Davi listed, not what the hybridizer put on his registration. I guess we can see some of the games that could be played using data for show purposes.
Name: Roger & Karen
Birmingham, Al (Zone 7a)
Daylilies Plant and/or Seed Trader Region: Alabama Butterflies Enjoys or suffers hot summers Seed Starter
Hummingbirder Critters Allowed
Diggerofdirt
Feb 6, 2021 9:10 AM CST
On that note can extra points be added for northern bred cultivars growing and thriving in southern states or vise versa?
Every home needs a daylily, and every daylily needs a home.
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Daylilies Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Region: Alabama
Image
Seedfork
Feb 6, 2021 9:23 AM CST
I certainly think that is something that would be taken into consideration when voting for Awards. But if I was just judging a plant on its merits as I see it growing on site in a garden I would not take that into consideration.
[Last edited by Seedfork - Feb 6, 2021 9:30 AM (+)]
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