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Jan 9, 2013 7:31 PM CST
|I hope this is an okay thread, but how many of you have checked on Rust resistance for the Daylilies you grow? I live in Florida and have two Rust seasons, but want to avoid the expensive sprays. What are some Daylilies you all have noticed as being resistant to Rust?|
Jan 9, 2013 7:35 PM CST
|What part of fl do yo live in. The north, with more cold or more middle of the state.|
Jan 9, 2013 7:42 PM CST
|Hi Alligator and |
I live in Florida also, but since I spray I am not a good person to say what is resistant or not. There are several people on here who will answer this once they see this though.
The only one I can say for sure is more resistant here, that I know of, is ROLLING RAVEN. There are 6 really HUGE clumps that are extremely clumped up together; it's hard to get really good coverage when I spray and they hardly ever have more than a few specks anywhere if at all. The only reason I pay attention to these is because I always worried about not spraying them well and would check them often.
Jan 9, 2013 9:38 PM CST
|No problem with this topic! |
I had rust in my garden in 2001, and have not had it since. Back then, there were a few daylilies that did not get it. Spoons for Escargot had plants all around it with rust - and their foliage was leaning over SFE and yet it never did get any rust. I know there were a few others, but I don't recall the names.
I have not done anything to prevent it, just has not showed up. If it did, I wouldn't do anything about it because our winters kill it.
Jan 10, 2013 5:43 AM CST
|I also spray so I am not a good resource for rust resistant daylilies. I have had several reports that Lillian's Womans Touch doesn't get rust and I have never seen rust on it here. There are several people here who grow LWT and they may have something different to report. I do think the dips are more resistant than the tets because of all the things that have been done with tets the past few years.|
Jan 10, 2013 6:15 AM CST
|Now that you mention it Fred, Lillian's Woman's Touch has never had rust here either. I agree with Fred that dips are more resistant. |
Jan 10, 2013 8:07 AM CST
|Because I live in the north and seldom get rust I wouldn't be able to help. I can say the 2 times I have had rust the plant David Kirchoff had it and also Mahieu's Orchid Forest.|
Jan 10, 2013 11:38 AM CST
|I have the Daylilies I have rated for Rust resistance on my website. I don't sell, so I hope it is okay to post. I also have how long I have had the plant. My location is Dunnellon, about 22 miles southwest of Ocala. |
Jan 10, 2013 1:13 PM CST
Alligator1962 said:I have the Daylilies I have rated for Rust resistance on my website. I don't sell, so I hope it is okay to post. I also have how long I have had the plant. My location is Dunnellon, about 22 miles southwest of Ocala.
Even if you did sell it would be ok to post your website here
Name: Elizabete Rutens
Jan 10, 2013 2:44 PM CST
|Thanks, Alligator, for the info on your website! It’s also good that you mention that different locations in your garden (especially, shady versus sunny sites) have an effect on rust resistance. I had three clumps of the same cultivar in various places in my garden. During the first year of rust only one developed rust, but by the second year all three had rust. Other cultivars, too, showed rust resistance the first or second year, but by the third succumbed.|
Below is a list of daylilies that didn’t develop rust during the 3 years that the plague descended on my garden. This, however, is *not* a guarantee that any will be rust resistant elsewhere.
All the best - Elizabete
Rust resistant daylilies in my Northern California garden, which has low humidity during the daytime:
Alicia Rose Kissed (Quarry)
Angel Heart (Swanson-D)
Arctic Elegance (Miner) EMO
Butterpat (Kennedy) EMO (nocturnal)
Dinett Sue (Bomar) EMO
Early and Often (Huben) EMO
Frequent Comment (Rice-J) EMO
Iberian Ice (Morss)
Jewel of the Sierra (Miner) EMO
Kitty Wells (Stamile)
Lemon Parchment (Stamile) EMO
Lillian's Fringe Benefits (Manning) EMO
Lindan Toole (Petit) EMO
Make Believe Magic (Salter-E.H.) EMO
Memorable Kiss (Rice-JA) EMO (instant rebloomer, never out of flower for 5 1/2 months in my garden)
Ming Porcelain (Kirchhoff) (Note: rust susceptible in gardens other than mine.)
Moon over Monteray (Salter) EMO
Peach Magic (Carpenter-J)
Peach Rum Festival (Pryor-J) EMO
Ricter (Stamile) EMO
Rose Mary Dixon (Wilson-T) EMO
Spacecoast Fancy Dancer (Kinnebrew-J)
Spanish Glow (Salter) EMO
Tae Kwon Do (Moldovan)
Tropical Experience (Stamile) EMO
Tuscawilla Princess (Hansen) EMO
Tuscawilla Tranquillity (Hansen) EMO (Note: rust susceptible in gardens other than mine.)
Victorian Lace (Stamile) (Note: rust susceptible in gardens other than mine.)
Wild About Sherry (Stamile) EMO
Voila Francoise (Stamile) EMO
Oops - here are a few I forgot :
Buddy's Wild and Wonderful (Hall-J) EMO
Caruso (Salter) EMO
Desert Moon (Trimmer) EMO
Sulphur, OK (Zone 7a)
Jan 10, 2013 7:42 PM CST
Good to see you here.
I'd like to make a point about dips versus tets and rust resistance. Since tets are derived from dips, the resistance of the tets depends on the resistance of the dips they were derived from. Many tets were derived from very rusty diploids, and subsequently, the tets became even more susceptible as they were inbred over generations. I personally don't think tets are any more inherently susceptible than dips. Of the plants I have bred, the plants with the best foliage traits; most resistant to rust and fungal pests, are tets derived from resistant dips. Which I think makes logical sense, since they possibly have twice the genetic material responsible for the resistance.
Some rust resistant plants:
EMERALD SPLENDOR (Observed for only two years)
LITTLE ORANGE TEX
SOUTH SEA ENCHANTMENT
HEARTS OF FIRE
btw Elizabete, although VICTORIAN LACE is one of my most favorite plants, it does have a rust problem.
Regards all -
Jan 10, 2013 11:16 PM CST
|I won't separate Tets from Dips because I seem to have acquired more tets then dips in my purchases so naturally more tets would be on any list I chose to show. Plus, what Ed says makes sense to me. The daylilies below, unlike many of my others, were in among the heavy rusters for a minimum of a month or two with foliage overlaping and touching. They were right in the thick of things so to speak and never got so much as a speck of rust before I moved them (more or less) out of harms way (given our wind situation in Oklahoma there's really very few places that would be totally away from the prevailing winds). I grow most of these in pots and I did not spray:|
100% Clean foliage:
-Bahama Butterscotch (Salter)
-Citrix (new this year. This Stamile surprised the heck out of me because quite a few of the other Stamile's
surrounding it rusted badly).
-Cluster Muster (Joiner)
-Coral Corduroy (an older Carpenter)
-Dutch Yellow Truffle (Kirchhoff)
-Linda Beck (Agin)
-Sour Puss (Shooter)
-Witches Wink (Salter)
-Yesterday Memories (an older daylily by Spalding)
They had less then a dozen spots on them. When the spotted leaves were removed in mid spring, rust never returned:
*Coral Majority (Norris)
*Frequent Comment (Rice)
Sorry to report that as Ed said, Victorian Lace is a notorious Ruster in my area. From what I've been told it passes its lack of resistance on to its progeny also..........Maryl
Name: Elizabete Rutens
Jan 11, 2013 12:52 AM CST
Ed, thanks, I had read that Victorian Lace in some gardens is rust susceptible. Years ago when I asked about it on the old Dave’s Garden forum, I heard back from someone who lives in a rust zone in Georgia that it’s rust resistant in her garden, too. But I’ve gone back and edited my previous post to reflect the ambiguity. I actually assumed that people reading these posts would use them only as a starting point of research. For all I know, any number of cultivars in my garden that are stellar and rust resistant will turn out to be disfigured by rust in other locations. I’m still rather amazed that Wild About Sherry – a great grandchild of the notoriously rusty Admiral’s Braid – was surrounded by rusty daylilies, but completely rust resistant. Were its rust susceptibility/resistant genes inherited from other great grandparents rather than Admiral’s Braid?
There are only a few cultivars that I grow that are rust-rated in ATP’s database (or Sue Board’s Rust Survey). But, it’s worth noting that rust scores for Ming Porcelain and Tuscawilla Tranquillity, which you also grow, are included in ATP’s database. Both of them have 1.3 scores, which indicates that there are reports indicating some degree of rust susceptibility; a ‘perfect’ rust resistance score is 1.0, and a 5.0 score indicates extreme susceptibility. It’s a shame that neither the sources nor the calc used to come up with the scores is provided. But, I have to assume that the scores have some degree of validity. In any case, I’ve edited my previous post to show this, too. Also, per the ATP database, the following don’t have perfect 1.0 rust resistant scores: Joan Senior (2.5), Emerald Splendor (1.7), Woodside Ruby (1.7), and Bela Lugosi (1.5).
Mark, a sincere welcome from me, too! I instantly realized who you were when reading your first post, but since you didn’t provide your name in your profile, I didn’t want to ‘out’ you. So, I left that for Ed to do. : )
All the best – Elizabete
PS Maryl, I just saw your post and thanks for the additional lists of cultivars! As for Victorian Lace as a parent - at least in my garden Fred's Lillian's Fringe Benefits (whose pollen parent is Victorian Lace) had the foliage of extremely rusty cultivars draped all over it when some workmen moved potted daylilies around on my patio. Yet, Lillian's Fringe Benefits never developed a single spot of rust. Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting it as a potential parent! (At least 30% of VL's blooms had a decidedly rectangular form in my cool summer temps that wasn't particularly appealing, in any case.) But, anomalies do occur.
Jan 12, 2013 12:04 AM CST
|Victorian Lace was rusty here as well, also Linda Beck.|
It's evidently going to be different in various gardens.
Maybe when rust is introduced into a garden that has never
had rust, like mine, there is a lack of any degree of resistance.
It might be a bit like influenza, such as worst case if you have
been exposed and have no resistance built up from prior cases.
Jan 12, 2013 5:13 AM CST
|I think mistyfog makes a good point. When rust broke out in 2001 almost everything here had it, now I see very little each year. I import a lot on new daylilies each year from all over the country (115 this year) and none have any signs of rust. As warm and damp as it stays here with no winter to kill it something good must be happening to the daylily. This pass fall I only saw rust on two plants, with 6000 seedlings and 500 registered plants thats a large improvement over five or six years ago. Even though I spray I can see a big difference in rust resistance.|
Jan 12, 2013 11:07 AM CST
| ..Alligator! I bookmarked your website and I appreciate you sharing this information. |
Thanks everyone for sharing your experiences!!
In the spring, at the end of the day, you should smell like dirt.....Margaret Atwood
Jan 12, 2013 1:21 PM CST
|Shirlee: That's interesting about your Linda Beck getting rust. I have two separate pots of it, both of which were in different places with rusty daylilies around them, and neither of them got rust. That's why I think that these surveys are important, particularily with the point system that can average out your experience with Linda Beck versus mine.......Fred: Your words are rather encouraging. Have you changed spray material per chance to account for your lack of symptoms? One can only hope that daylilies are gaining a natural immunity to rust after all this exposure ....Maryl|
Name: Elizabete Rutens
Jan 12, 2013 5:05 PM CST
Fred, months ago on the Rust forum I used your experiences with rust (i.e., seeing a marked decrease of it over the years) to question whether daylilies could acquire resistance. There were many responses. One was that it’s unlikely that Systemic Acquired Resistance is occurring. Instead, other rusts tend to develop a resistance to fungicides, which is why rotating fungicides is recommended. Also since commercial nurseries are spraying to contain rust, there are fewer rust spores in the environment, which results in less severe infestations.
Applying knowledge from studies of other plants, it may be possible (but not proven) that adult daylilies may show rust resistance, but not when they’re seedlings. However, the reverse is also possible in the plant world. In other words, a seedling that shows rust resistance, could develop rust susceptibility when it reached ‘adulthood.’ However, no one knows how to define what it means for a daylily to be an adult. And once again: this hasn’t been studied, so no one knows whether it applies to daylilies.
It was also mentioned that daylily rust has existed in Asia for more than 100 years, and affects native daylilies severely. What’s interesting about this is that the native plants are dormant and die back completely in the winter, so theoretically they shouldn’t get rust in the following season. (Patrinia wasn’t brought up in this post, but certainly if it’s in the area then that would explain the continued daylily blight.)
Another possibility: in the last 10+ years, hybridizers at the very least will not register a seedling that shows rust susceptibility. This could also account for a decrease of rust among the newly acquired daylilies in your garden. A breeder of dips in Arkansas mentioned that when rust first appeared 75% of his dips got rust. Now, it’s about 25%, and he believes the marked decrease has to do with his breeding for rust resistance.
There was also a differing opinion about the success of breeding for rust resistance. One hybridizer found that of newly purchased daylilies from hybridizers claiming them to be highly rust resistant, 50% turned out to be of only average rust resistance in his garden. He also spoke about daylily rust having “good years and bad years,” in the same way that daylily performance varied from one year to the next. This is where differing environments/garden settings may come into play.
Here’s a very technical article that explains graphically the factors that affect the development/appearance of a plant disease. (Note that environment – climate, humidity, etc. – is one of the key factors.)
I would urge anyone with a deeper interest in rust to join Sue Bergeron’s Daylily Rust Forum by sending an e-mail to: firstname.lastname@example.org
Sometimes discussions are very technical, which is to be expected since among the participants are plant pathology and genetics experts. But they also provide very practical information. I’ve found reading the posts (and especially the archives!) to be very helpful. Rust is a very complicated subject, and in my opinion hasn't been studied nearly enough for any of us to have a good grasp of what we're up against.
I heartily agree with the suggestion that Ed made (on the Rust Forum) months ago that ideally we need a lab to which we could send rust-infected leaves, so that an independent analysis of rust could be made, and an objective scale of rust resistance could be developed. At the very least, we could determine whether there is more than a single strain of rust in the North American continent.
All the best - Elizabete
Jan 12, 2013 5:45 PM CST
In the spring, at the end of the day, you should smell like dirt.....Margaret Atwood
Jan 12, 2013 7:03 PM CST
|Elizabete, I have been searching scientific papers trying to find a |
correlation between daylily rust and senescence (leaf yellowing). My question: Is there
a certain phytohormone, enzyme, guard cell action, or chemical that initiates the process of
senescence and also sets up the conditions to support rust development?
This may be a topic discussed before, but I have wondered why
rust begins on the outer leaves first, and if the answer might be a way to
prohibit the development of rust.
The spores appear to be very lightweight, yet I have not seen yellow residue
on other surfaces such as I see with pollen. (Car, porch, or driveway).
I haven't noticed if the spores are sticky as is pollen. I didn't actually feel of it.
Wind blown spores would surely land on any part of foliage, so why is the outside
infected first? Insects, if capable of carrying spores, would enable infection on any part of
the foliage. Granted, spores attached to animal fur or human clothing would brush
against the outer foliage first, and I can see the results of that.
Being new to the rust issue, I don't know if infection begins elsewhere on the plant in other
gardens, but that is what I see here. Rust infects outer leaves, goes through it's stages, and
then infects the next layer of foliage that the spores brush against. The wind causing
the leaves to move against each other facilitates this, I suspect.
I haven't found anything in reading that answers my question, but I have found some
information that eliminates some possibilities. Some of the papers I don't read due to