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Apr 13, 2021 11:15 AM CST
Name: Charley
Arroyo Seco New Mexico (Zone 4b)
Don’t trust all-purpose glue.
Garden Ideas: Level 1
Our database list SP as having 10-15 buds and three way branching.

The Lily Auction has an auction for SP that lists 42 buds, 7 branches.

Is either one close to accurate?

Charley
I’d rather have questions that can’t be answered than answers that can’t be questioned.
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Apr 13, 2021 11:21 AM CST
Name: Steve Todd
Illinois (Zone 5b)
Daylilies Region: Illinois Plant and/or Seed Trader Enjoys or suffers cold winters
Charley,

I have had mine for many years, here in northern Illinois. I would guess my stats are somewhere in between. It does clump up quickly so having enough bloom is never a problem. It has been great here.

Steve

Last edited by Ahead Apr 13, 2021 12:52 PM Icon for preview
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Apr 13, 2021 11:21 AM CST
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Daylilies Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Region: Alabama
They could both be correct, the hybridizer registered it as it was growing in their garden. So I am assuming the seller is not the hybridizer and that he is showing what the plant was capable of growing in his garden. I guess it is possible that the hybridizer could still be the seller and as the plant matured it did better. I once had a hybridizer tell me that he made the mistake of registering his plants too quickly because after another year or two the stats really jumped.
Last edited by Seedfork Apr 13, 2021 11:52 AM Icon for preview
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Apr 13, 2021 11:22 AM CST
Name: Dave
Wood Co TX & Huron Co MI
Butterflies Peonies Native Plants and Wildflowers Region: Michigan Irises Hybridizer
Hostas Greenhouse Daylilies Garden Photography Region: Texas
It is registered as 12 bud 3 br so someone is exaggerating
Life is better at the lake.
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Apr 13, 2021 11:48 AM CST
Name: Betty
MN zone 4b
Frogs and Toads Birds Hummingbirder Irises Lilies Peonies
Roses Garden Ideas: Level 1 Region: United States of America Hostas Garden Art Echinacea
The seller is in GA so thinking it may produce more buds in a warmer climate than Iowa where the hybridizer lives, although that is a big difference. I planted it last year so will have to wait and see a couple of years to see how it does here where our climate is close to Iowa's.
If you want to be happy for a lifetime plant a garden!
Faith is the postage stamp on our prayers!
Betty MN Zone4 AHS member

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Apr 13, 2021 12:20 PM CST
Name: Charley
Arroyo Seco New Mexico (Zone 4b)
Don’t trust all-purpose glue.
Garden Ideas: Level 1
Thank you for your answers. I suspect that there could be that much variation depending on climate, just wanted to check. Some of my New Mexico hems show very differently from their registered numbers.

I didn't mean to imply that the seller was exaggerating. (I never ever exaggerate, ever!)

Charley
I’d rather have questions that can’t be answered than answers that can’t be questioned.
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Apr 13, 2021 12:35 PM CST
Name: Celeste
central New Hampshire (Zone 4b)
Birds Seller of Garden Stuff Roses Region: New Hampshire Hybridizer Hummingbirder
Dragonflies Daylilies Clematis Cat Lover Butterflies Enjoys or suffers cold winters
I have grown Scarlet Pimpernel for years in my zone 4/5 New Hampshire garden. It is not in an optimal site nor do I fuss over it so with better culture I am sure the stats would be better. I think it is on track for what it's registered at here. (Keep in mind that in my climate bud count on anything is not what it would be in a warmer zone and I don't expect it). I must say that I ADORE this daylily. It's one of the first to bloom and is a knockout in a clump. Healthy and hardy. Very fertile too, if you are into hybridizing.

I have several photos over on the database:
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Apr 13, 2021 12:52 PM CST
Name: Jan Wax
Mendocino County, N. CA (Zone 9a)
I'm a semi-retired studio potter.
Dog Lover Hummingbirder Organic Gardener Daylilies Region: Ukraine Region: California
Irises Dahlias Garden Art Cat Lover Vegetable Grower Birds
Nice photo, nice DL, Celeste!
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Apr 13, 2021 1:34 PM CST
Name: Julie C
Roanoke, VA (Zone 7a)
Daylilies Garden Photography Region: Virginia Photo Contest Winner: 2015 Heucheras Cat Lover
Hummingbirder Clematis Lilies Birds Garden Art Butterflies
SW VA, edge of climate zones 6/7: It does make an imposing clump. Blooms are huge. Even with irrigation, bud count is around 15.
Thumb of 2021-04-13/floota/5ac597
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Apr 13, 2021 9:16 PM CST
Name: Avedon
NE Tex (Zone 8a)
Bee Lover Butterflies Cat Lover Daylilies Hummingbirder Region: Texas
Scarlet Pimpernel arrived here last fall as a very small plant, so was not expecting anything much this year. However, nearly all our plants are looking fantastic, we have never seen them look this good and big. Speculation is that the extreme cold weather with ice and snow might be the reason--maybe all that moisture locked in for quite some time followed by a wet March pumped up all of them. Keep everybody posted as to the progress of SP, perhaps there will be good growth, and we will be surprised by some nice flowers here in Zone 8A.
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Apr 13, 2021 9:44 PM CST
Name: Julie C
Roanoke, VA (Zone 7a)
Daylilies Garden Photography Region: Virginia Photo Contest Winner: 2015 Heucheras Cat Lover
Hummingbirder Clematis Lilies Birds Garden Art Butterflies
Ok, so I looked up the listing on the LA. A LOT of information is listed incorrectly besides this . Budding and branching. Parentage, awards data, and even hybridizers name are ALL incorrect. I would question the seller on this, Is this simply copying information incorrectly? Or something else. Sorry, too many red flags for me.
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Apr 14, 2021 6:25 AM CST
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Daylilies Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Region: Alabama
Yes there is some confusion here, I copied and pasted this from the AHS site.


Scarlet Pimpernel (Ripley, 2006)
height 35 in.(89 cm), bloom 10 in.(25 cm), season EM, Rebloom, Semi-Evergreen, Tetraploid, 12 buds, 3 branches, Unusual Form Crispate, Royal garnet red above yellow leading to green throat. (Ruby Spider × Royal Celebration)
Awards: Stout 2019; AM 2016; HM 2013; NRS 2013
Last edited by Seedfork Apr 14, 2021 7:05 AM Icon for preview
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Apr 14, 2021 6:51 AM CST
Name: Vickie
southern Indiana (Zone 6b)
Bee Lover Garden Photography Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Region: United States of America
Region: Indiana Garden Art Annuals Clematis Cottage Gardener Garden Ideas: Level 2
I believe some of the description is that of 'Black Panther', which is a cross of (Earth Shaker x Heavenly Thunderbird) x Webster's Purple Wonder. The bud count and branching also matches what the seller has listed as being for 'Black Panther'. Not sure how a seller could get that color description correct, but the rest of the info wrong.
May all your weeds be wildflowers. ~Author Unknown
Last edited by blue23rose Apr 14, 2021 6:59 AM Icon for preview
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Apr 14, 2021 7:03 AM CST
Name: Vickie
southern Indiana (Zone 6b)
Bee Lover Garden Photography Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Region: United States of America
Region: Indiana Garden Art Annuals Clematis Cottage Gardener Garden Ideas: Level 2
It appears that the seller is new, so I sent a private message to give them the opportunity to correct the listing.
May all your weeds be wildflowers. ~Author Unknown
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Apr 14, 2021 8:28 AM CST
Name: Vickie
southern Indiana (Zone 6b)
Bee Lover Garden Photography Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Region: United States of America
Region: Indiana Garden Art Annuals Clematis Cottage Gardener Garden Ideas: Level 2
I received a response from the seller and it will be corrected. The seller, Ktlu, appreciated the feedback and mentions that work is needed on their copying and pasting.
May all your weeds be wildflowers. ~Author Unknown
Last edited by blue23rose Apr 14, 2021 10:55 AM Icon for preview
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Apr 14, 2021 10:56 AM CST
Name: Vickie
southern Indiana (Zone 6b)
Bee Lover Garden Photography Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Region: United States of America
Region: Indiana Garden Art Annuals Clematis Cottage Gardener Garden Ideas: Level 2
@seedfork, Larry, thanks for the acorn! It was a mystery that begged to be solved, lol.
May all your weeds be wildflowers. ~Author Unknown
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Apr 14, 2021 12:25 PM CST
Name: Debra
Nashville, TN (Zone 7a)
Butterflies Cat Lover Daylilies Seed Starter Region: Tennessee
It does look like Vickie has solved the mystery. Good sleuthing, Vickie!

But sometimes the difference between registered and bud counts and bud counts in other climates is pretty different. I registered my own Sangria With Mia as having 18 buds back in a three-year drought. The next year, we had flooding rains and its bud counts were in the high 30s. The Lily Farm registered Summer Snowball as having 15 buds, but it always has many more in my garden. Last year bud counts ranged from 20-34.

It does surprise me that Scarlet Pimpernel, a cultivar with a registered bud count of 12, won the Stout Medal. Does its propensity to multiply quickly offset the low bud count for those of you who grow it? What makes Scarlet Pimpernel so great that it deserved the South Medal? I have a black purple tet UF seedling that is tall, beautiful, and multiplies like crazy. I've been reluctant to register it because bud counts so far have only been 14-17. (My goal for registration is an average of 18 buds.) Seeing the stats on Scarlet Pimpernel make me rethink that one. Everyone who sees my UF bed asks about that seedling.
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Apr 14, 2021 1:03 PM CST
Name: Vickie
southern Indiana (Zone 6b)
Bee Lover Garden Photography Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Region: United States of America
Region: Indiana Garden Art Annuals Clematis Cottage Gardener Garden Ideas: Level 2
Thanks, Debra!
May all your weeds be wildflowers. ~Author Unknown
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Apr 14, 2021 2:24 PM CST
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Daylilies Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Region: Alabama
I had fallen for high bud counts and great branching numbers, but I have learned that a term I was not familiar with until recently (scape density) can make up for the low bud counts and branching. Sadly it is a stat that is not included when looking up plants in the database. Scape density is simply the ability of the plant to put out lots of scapes, therefore more blooms. It is a wonderful thing, but unless the hybridizer mentions it in a catalog or people pass it along verbally when discussing plants, you just have to discover it out in the garden. So I would suspect that Scarlet Pimpernel may possesses that trait. Also maybe it has great disease and rust resistance and just beautiful foliage.
I would love for some of the people who grow it to tell us why they think it should have won the Stout Silver Medal.
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Apr 14, 2021 5:08 PM CST
Name: Steve Todd
Illinois (Zone 5b)
Daylilies Region: Illinois Plant and/or Seed Trader Enjoys or suffers cold winters
Picture, Deb?

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