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May 25, 2021 1:25 AM CST
Name: Sue
Austria
Daylilies Roses Irises Cat Lover Bee Lover Bookworm
Region: Europe
I'm new here and want to introduce my self a little bit: I live in the southeast of Austria which is located between USDA climate zone 6 and 7 and my garden ist filled with lots of daylilies and other plants. Here within the EU there are only a few daylilies available that bloom before and after peak bloom (which is End of June in my region) and if you want to enjoy a five months lasting daylily summer you have to be inventive.
The last 10 years I bought nearly every extra early, late and very late cultivar I was able to get but still in August and September the colorful diversity of peak bloom was missing in my garden. So about 7 years ago I started with a little bit of pollen dabbing wich resulted in some registrations (prefix Gekko Garden).
The next years things will change - I will have lots of space for seedlings and due to my retirement there will be a lot of time for hybridizing.
But how should they look like - the season extenders for colder climate - flowering till the end of September? Which kind of very late daylily would you buy?
The import ban due to Xylella fastidiosa prevents importing the latest and best cultivars from the US but maybe I can work on creating something similar?
Many thanks in advance for your input - I've learned so much from reading in this forum the last years but I'm sure I can learn more by writing too! Smiling

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Last edited by Nightlily May 25, 2021 1:35 AM Icon for preview
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May 25, 2021 5:23 AM CST
Name: Elena
NYC (Zone 7a)
Bee Lover Vegetable Grower Plant and/or Seed Trader Spiders! Seed Starter Garden Procrastinator
Peonies Organic Gardener Hybridizer Growing under artificial light Daylilies Container Gardener
Welcome! Sue!

Honestly, I'd buy anything that blooms really late if I thought the flower was pretty. I've added several dips and a couple of tets just to extend my season.

What I find most frustrating is buying a late or very late bloomer and having it start blooming midseason for me. I bought multiple plants and had this happen to me. I've learned to only buy if confirmed by someone in my zone first (I'm the same zone as you).

So if you can breed some that are reliably very late in your zone I'm sure you'll have plenty of customers!
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May 25, 2021 6:11 AM CST
Name: Sue
Austria
Daylilies Roses Irises Cat Lover Bee Lover Bookworm
Region: Europe
Hello Elena,
thanks for your reply. I had the same experience here - some of the cultivars registered as late or very late did never flower late for me, but many of them just needed 2 or 3 years to adapt to our climate and then startet to perform as expected.
Coral Majority e.g. now flowers here from Mid July till Mid August (which is late in my region) - the first years it startet in late June (just before peak bloom).
At the moment my own plants are tested in different European climate zones (in northern Germany where it is cool in summer but not so cold in winter and in our alpine region with colder winters and summers as we have) - up to now all of them start to flower a little bit later than in my own garden.
Maybe you want to take a look at my registrations and give me a feedback - up to now the latest ones are diploids which flower within the first days of October here. But I'm planning on converting the best mother plants to get cold hardy tetraploid ones too that open good after cool nights (around 45-50°F) . You can find them here: https://garden.org/plants/sear...

The last two years I used frozen pollen from earlier flowering cultivars to get bright and saturated colors, eyes, edges, stripes and other fancy stuff in late seedlings - I hope to see the first results this year. But you have to keep in mind, that the plants shall fit in autumnal bed situations - they may sometimes need other colors or effects than beds in early summer. So how will your ideal Hem for August or September look like?

Could this seedling be a candidate?
Started on Aug 2nd and finished about 4 weeks later - Techny Peach Lace x Late Starter:

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Last edited by Nightlily May 25, 2021 6:15 AM Icon for preview
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May 25, 2021 6:26 AM CST
Name: Vickie
southern Indiana (Zone 6b)
Bee Lover Garden Photography Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Region: United States of America
Region: Indiana Garden Art Annuals Clematis Cottage Gardener Garden Ideas: Level 2
Hi Sue! I took a look at your registrations and they are very nice! I especially like 'Gekko Garden Miss Melba'. I love that they are late and very late for you.

I have the same issue as Elena. Buy a daylily that says it is late only to have it bloom in late July. My own fault for not checking where it was hybridized and registered.

As far as what the season extenders should look like, I would be inclined to love anything that would start blooming in August or September. I tend to like taller daylilies like the ones you have registered (over 36 inches).

It is too bad about the import ban, but being proactive may prevent spread of the disease until hopefully treatment is found. I have lost four roses to Rose Rosette Disease, also no treatment found to date, and it is spreading more all the time in the US.
May all your weeds be wildflowers. ~Author Unknown
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May 25, 2021 6:29 AM CST
Name: Vickie
southern Indiana (Zone 6b)
Bee Lover Garden Photography Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Region: United States of America
Region: Indiana Garden Art Annuals Clematis Cottage Gardener Garden Ideas: Level 2
Nightlily said:
Could this seedling be a candidate?
Started on Aug 2nd and finished about 4 weeks later - Techny Peach Lace x Late Starter:

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Oh Yes! That is a beauty! If it blooms above the foliage, it's a keeper in my garden. I like daylilies with blooms that are proportionate to the height. I tend not to like 6-inch blooms on a 20-inch daylily.
May all your weeds be wildflowers. ~Author Unknown
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May 25, 2021 6:30 AM CST
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Daylilies Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Region: Alabama
Nightlily, Welcome!
I can't give any advice on late and extra late hybridizing, but I will say I admire your selection of a goal!
I find your post very interesting and will follow your efforts. I had never even given any consideration to the colors matching the seasons ,if is that what you were saying. Do you get any rebloom?
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May 25, 2021 6:43 AM CST
Name: Sue
Austria
Daylilies Roses Irises Cat Lover Bee Lover Bookworm
Region: Europe
blue23rose said:Hi Sue! I took a look at your registrations and they are very nice! I especially like 'Gekko Garden Miss Melba'. I love that they are late and very late for you.

Thanks for your feedback - Miss Melba is my favourite too!

blue23rose said:As far as what the season extenders should look like, I would be inclined to love anything that would start blooming in August or September. I tend to like taller daylilies like the ones you have registered (over 36 inches).
Up to now I can say that starting in August is quite easy with dips but much more difficult in tets, but I'm working on it. Do you like taller daylilies during the whole season or is tall better in August or September?

blue23rose said:It is too bad about the import ban, but being proactive may prevent spread of the disease until hopefully treatment is found. I have lost four roses to Rose Rosette Disease, also no treatment found to date, and it is spreading more all the time in the US.

I was told that Xylella fastidiosa is not frost hardy - I completely understand the problems in warmer climate (winegrowing friends in Italy are frustrated about the disease), but as far as I know the bacterial strain that is responsible for the problems was importet with coffee plants an is not able to survive in daylilies. But daylilies are not a popular garden plant in Europe and so nobody cares. Sad
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May 25, 2021 6:49 AM CST
Name: Sue
Austria
Daylilies Roses Irises Cat Lover Bee Lover Bookworm
Region: Europe
blue23rose said:

Oh Yes! That is a beauty! If it blooms above the foliage, it's a keeper in my garden. I like daylilies with blooms that are proportionate to the height. I tend not to like 6-inch blooms on a 20-inch daylily.

At the moment I can not say how tall this seedling can grow because it was constrained at the edge of a seedlings bed. I will try to dig it out if this nasty weather is gone and replant it in a better position to give the plant a chance to show its best side.
I like the seedling because of its bright colors but are the easy to combine with August companion plants?
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May 25, 2021 6:56 AM CST
Name: Sue
Austria
Daylilies Roses Irises Cat Lover Bee Lover Bookworm
Region: Europe
Seedfork said:Nightlily, Welcome!
I can't give any advice on late and extra late hybridizing, but I will say I admire your selection of a goal!
I find your post very interesting and will follow your efforts. I had never even given any consideration to the colors matching the seasons ,if is that what you were saying. Do you get any rebloom?

Hello Larry,
the color issue came up because daylily beds without companion plants are very unusual here - as daylilies are not often used in gardens (many know the ditch lily but only a few like it and modern cultivars are usually not available at garden centers). So late flowering daylilies should match with asters, cone flowers, rudbeckia, dahlias, ...

We usually only have rebloom on the typical northern rebloomer cultivars like Stella de Oro, Stella's Ruffled Fingers, Rosy Returns, On and on, .....

The plant shown as my avatar (GG Peach Party) is a constant rebloomer in my region (very unusual) and a positive exeption.
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May 25, 2021 6:58 AM CST
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4b)
Annuals Native Plants and Wildflowers Keeps Horses Dog Lover Daylilies Region: Canadian
Butterflies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Garden Sages Plant Identifier
Nightlily said:

I was told that Xylella fastidiosa is not frost hardy - I completely understand the problems in warmer climate (winegrowing friends in Italy are frustrated about the disease), but as far as I know the bacterial strain that is responsible for the problems was importet with coffee plants an is not able to survive in daylilies. But daylilies are not a popular garden plant in Europe and so nobody cares. Sad


Unfortunately daylilies have been recorded as a host of Xylella fastidiosa, see Table 1 here:

https://apsjournals.apsnet.org...

There's an article on its possible cold hardiness in Europe here:
https://www.nature.com/article...

Have you thought about purchasing daylily seeds of the lines you want from North America? Also some of the species daylilies flower quite late.
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May 25, 2021 6:59 AM CST
Name: Sue
Austria
Daylilies Roses Irises Cat Lover Bee Lover Bookworm
Region: Europe
@all: I try to do my best writing in English - please ask if something sounds completely weired - I will give it another try! *Blush*
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May 25, 2021 7:11 AM CST
Name: Sue
Austria
Daylilies Roses Irises Cat Lover Bee Lover Bookworm
Region: Europe
sooby said:

Unfortunately daylilies have been recorded as a host of Xylella fastidiosa, see Table 1 here:

https://apsjournals.apsnet.org...

There's an article on its possible cold hardiness in Europe here:
https://www.nature.com/article...

Hello Sue - thanks a lot for this helpful information!

sooby said:Have you thought about purchasing daylily seeds of the lines you want from North America?

Up to now I've only got seeds from the AHS seed donation program but in addition I'm working on this issue for some months - at the moment I am looking for newer recommendable cultivars that can be useful parents.
I know that Jim Murphy is working on season extenders too and I've some of his plants here but they are all spiders and ufos, is there another hybridizer in the US with a focus on late/very late cultivars?

sooby said:Also some of the species daylilies flower quite late.

Up to now I used H. fulva littorea, H. fulva kwanso and H. fulva rosea (very late/late) as parents but the seedlings I've got until last year were not impressing - the crosses with frozen pollen from midseason bloomers did not bloom yet, maybe they look better and flower late?
Can you recommend another late flowering species?
Avatar for Wildbirds
May 25, 2021 7:26 AM CST

I don't intentionally buy or breed for Lates or Very Lates but do have a few by error & defaults. My most significant observation (Also mentioned earlier) is CMO (Cool morning opener). If the plant/bloom resists opening at autumn's predictable lower temperatures it is simply NOT much good to you unless you have the tolerance to wait for the day to progress - thus displaying blooms only toward mid-day or later (Or sometimes NOT opening at all.).
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May 25, 2021 7:31 AM CST
Name: Sue
Austria
Daylilies Roses Irises Cat Lover Bee Lover Bookworm
Region: Europe
I totally agree! For extra early flowers this is an issue too.
Which night temperatures are usual in August/September in your region?
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May 25, 2021 7:35 AM CST
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4b)
Annuals Native Plants and Wildflowers Keeps Horses Dog Lover Daylilies Region: Canadian
Butterflies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Garden Sages Plant Identifier
I understand that H. fulva var. littorea is late but 'Kwanso' and H. fulva var. rosea are not particularly late where I am (also 'Kwanso' is triploid without normal female parts so can't set pods although the pollen might work sometimes). Hemerocallis multiflora flowers so late here it never gets finished before the weather turns too cold. The standard late here is 'Sandra Elizabeth' but I find Hemerocallis citrina and H. thunbergii flower fairly late also.

I don't know if anyone on the Lily Auction (for some reason not called the Daylily Auction even though it isn't for lilies) exports seeds, it might be worth a look.

I don't keep up much with who is breeding for what but it kind of makes sense to go for lates anywhere there is, or could be in time, the Hemerocallis gall midge.
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May 25, 2021 7:38 AM CST
Name: Elena
NYC (Zone 7a)
Bee Lover Vegetable Grower Plant and/or Seed Trader Spiders! Seed Starter Garden Procrastinator
Peonies Organic Gardener Hybridizer Growing under artificial light Daylilies Container Gardener
Olallie Daylily Gardens in Vermont has a special focus on late and very late daylilies but most of them aren't registered. I have several. If you look at my plant list under unregistered you'll see the ones I have. All are dips though. Melanie Mason bred and sold some late blooming tets. Unfortunately, she went out of business last year. I have her Never Too Late. Some other later blooming tets I bought from her are Guava Jelly, Sanibel Coral & Bridgeton Eyecatcher.

I also have mixed daylily beds but I wouldn't worry too much about the colors. I think most daylily colors would work with many of autumn plants. I think the hardest color might be purple but reds, pinks, yellow, orange and brown would all be fine.

I love your red seedling! I have a late blooming NOID dip that looks very similar. And I would definitely buy Peach Party. It's gorgeous and it reblooms!
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May 25, 2021 8:04 AM CST
Name: Sue
Austria
Daylilies Roses Irises Cat Lover Bee Lover Bookworm
Region: Europe
sooby said:I understand that H. fulva var. littorea is late but 'Kwanso' and H. fulva var. rosea are not particularly late where I am (also 'Kwanso' is triploid without normal female parts so can't set pods although the pollen might work sometimes).

There might be different clones available under this names. My H. fulva littorea flowers from mid August until beginning of October - a very late one here. The plant I've got named H. fulva rosea flowers from Mid July until Mid of August - both diploid and fertile. I have another fulva-like plant that was identified by Gil Stelter (Gryphon Gardens) as Margaret Perry which is also flowering from end of July to end of August. Last year I used it the first time for crossing.

My Kwanso (or flore pleno?) flowers from mid July to mid September - up to now pollinations did only work with tetraploids, but I have not seen a flowering seedling up to now.

sooby said:
Hemerocallis multiflora flowers so late here it never gets finished before the weather turns too cold. The standard late here is 'Sandra Elizabeth' but I find Hemerocallis citrina and H. thunbergii flower fairly late also.
This year I've got a plant that might be H. multiflora - a very long flowering tall yellow one - hopefully it is the right one. Sandra Elizabeth was my first very late cultivar - but it usually starts at peak bloom here and seldom flowers longer than Mid of August.

Thanks for the hints to H. citrina and H. thunbergii - the first I've got last year (H. citrina baronii) but it did not flower the first year, I will try to get H. thunbergii - species are hard to find here.

sooby said:I don't know if anyone on the Lily Auction (for some reason not called the Daylily Auction even though it isn't for lilies) exports seeds, it might be worth a look.

I don't keep up much with who is breeding for what but it kind of makes sense to go for lates anywhere there is, or could be in time, the Hemerocallis gall midge.


A friend of mine bought seeds at the Lily Auction for some years - I will ask him if this is still working (there are rumors that a sanity certificate for seeds is needed too). And of course the gall midge issue is a good argument for later flowering cultivars!
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May 25, 2021 8:23 AM CST
Name: Sue
Austria
Daylilies Roses Irises Cat Lover Bee Lover Bookworm
Region: Europe
bxncbx said:Olallie Daylily Gardens in Vermont has a special focus on late and very late daylilies but most of them aren't registered. I have several. If you look at my plant list under unregistered you'll see the ones I have. All are dips though.


I've bought some Olallie cultivars some years ago and they are heavily in use for crossing since then - GG Fall Fairies is a result of Watermelon Summer VT and Final Touch. Unfortunately the import ban prevented my second purchasing attempt there. How can I find your plant list - I do not fully understand all the features of this forum up to now.

bxncbx said:Melanie Mason bred and sold some late blooming tets. Unfortunately, she went out of business last year. I have her Never Too Late. Some other later blooming tets I bought from her are Guava Jelly, Sanibel Coral & Bridgeton Eyecatcher.

Thanks for the cultivar names, Never Too Late looks fantastic!

bxncbx said:
I also have mixed daylily beds but I wouldn't worry too much about the colors. I think most daylily colors would work with many of autumn plants. I think the hardest color might be purple but reds, pinks, yellow, orange and brown would all be fine.
That is good to hear - I love all of them and try to offer a wide range of colors and flower forms.

bxncbx said:I love your red seedling! I have a late blooming NOID dip that looks very similar. And I would definitely buy Peach Party. It's gorgeous and it reblooms!

Then fingers crossed that the red one has high enough stems.
Peach Party is out of seeds from the AHS seed donation program - if you see it in the garden you will find somehow 'different' even if the color is soft and subtle. The flowers look like made of icecream or whipped cream or frozen yoghurt? Every garden visitor last year wanted to get a fan so I decided to register the seedling.
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May 25, 2021 9:02 AM CST
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4b)
Annuals Native Plants and Wildflowers Keeps Horses Dog Lover Daylilies Region: Canadian
Butterflies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Garden Sages Plant Identifier
Interesting about your 'Sandra Elizabeth' because it starts much later here. 'Susan Elizabeth' on the other hand is probably closer to the flowering time for your 'Sandra Elizabeth'.

My Hemerocallis multiflora is not particularly tall.

I'm never quite sure what is being described as Hemerocallis citrina baroni! There is actually no such name (somewhere on this forum there is a more detailed discussion on that). So it could be any of three things from my understanding. It could be Hemerocallis citrina, it could be something someone called Hemercallis citrina "Baroni clone" presumably indicating the clone originally described, or it could be the hybrid cultivar 'Baroni' which is H. thunbergii x H. citrina (Sprenger 1903). So it makes it potentially difficult to compare.

For importing seeds you would need to check your own agricultural authority because they make the determinations as to what is required. Countries often allow small amounts of seeds without a phytosanitary certificate.
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May 25, 2021 9:19 AM CST
Name: Sue
Austria
Daylilies Roses Irises Cat Lover Bee Lover Bookworm
Region: Europe
sooby said:Interesting about your 'Sandra Elizabeth' because it starts much later here. 'Susan Elizabeth' on the other hand is probably closer to the flowering time for your 'Sandra Elizabeth'.
I've never heard about a 'Susan Elizabeth' before - for two years I tried to get Sandra Elizabeth because I was told it is the benchmark for very late flowering daylilies. The plant I've got finally looks like the right one (size/flower size and form). See pictures of my one below.

sooby said:
My Hemerocallis multiflora is not particularly tall.

I think/hope, mine will be this one:
https://www.daylilygarden.com/...
I found it in a garden here but it was not flowering anymore - the height and the many branches/buds was impressing. The owner told me, that it flowers incredible long and has a strong fragrance.

sooby said:I'm never quite sure what is being described as Hemerocallis citrina baroni! There is actually no such name (somewhere on this forum there is a more detailed discussion on that). So it could be any of three things from my understanding. It could be Hemerocallis citrina, it could be something someone called Hemercallis citrina "Baroni clone" presumably indicating the clone originally described, or it could be the hybrid cultivar 'Baroni' which is H. thunbergii x H. citrina (Sprenger 1903). So it makes it potentially difficult to compare.

I was told that the 'baronii'-type is the better garden plant - I bought it from a collector who had a H. citrina and a H. citrina baronii on display. I can post a picture if the plant flowers today.

sooby said:For importing seeds you would need to check your own agricultural authority because they make the determinations as to what is required. Countries often allow small amounts of seeds without a phytosanitary certificate.
Thanks for the hint - I will check this.



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