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Avatar for RpR
Jun 6, 2021 11:21 AM CST
Name: Dr. Demento Jr.
Minnesota (Zone 3b)
Got back from trying to cover rose garden with Cocoa Bean Hulls but do not have enough , but at that, outside of one long dead rose , stump root rose bought from Home Depot last year probably, none are actually dead -- yet -- all show some signs of green though , a fair number are at the Monte Python -- "I'm not quite dead yet " -- stage, therefore; I am babying them to see what happens.

I cannot find my rose chart so I do not know which ones are in search of the Holy Grail, but at least one was a bucks-up rose put in last year but the rose name is no longer on the still attached tag.

IF, if I cannot get any more Cocoa Bean Hulls, I am considering put crushed pine bark over the un-mulched areas as it will look better than the left over leaves , which will decompose any way so I thought best to mulch over them than try to blow them out and have to deal with the , considerable number of leaves on the lawn especially as the only direction to blow them to would be into the Lilies of the Valley garden which looks like crap already as I dug a huge peony out of it last fall and Ma's wild roses are spreading like weed so I used bush killer on some of them and I have a weed
that is becoming serious problem over the whole yard which is odd as some areas becoming infested are tens of yards from where they first hit a long, long time ago. Shrug! I tip my hat to you.
Last edited by RpR Jun 7, 2021 1:06 PM Icon for preview
Avatar for RpR
Jun 7, 2021 1:08 PM CST
Name: Dr. Demento Jr.
Minnesota (Zone 3b)
There are no Cocoa Bean Shells left in Minnesota, I checked every where ; one Menard's has two bags left.
All the other garden shops are out.
Avatar for RpR
Jun 9, 2021 2:56 PM CST
Name: Dr. Demento Jr.
Minnesota (Zone 3b)
Have any of you used: Great Big Roses fertilizer?

I saw a special deal for getting Amazon C-card in which a gallon of the fertilizer and large bag of Dr Earth Total Advantage Rose N Floral Plant Mix only cost me 51 dollars total.

New roses have been in long enough now I am going to start a regular fertilizing/fungicide routine, or at least something resembling a routine.
If any of you use it , what do you think of it? I'm all ears!
Avatar for RpR
Jun 14, 2021 12:27 PM CST
Name: Dr. Demento Jr.
Minnesota (Zone 3b)
I will presume no one has tried it yet; I fertilized yesterday and if the reviews on Amazon are worth anything , it has positive feedback.
For what it is worth:
I was also going to fertilize my tomatoes with some old Miracle Grow Tomato Fertilizer, the powder in a box that has sat in the garden cupboard for a few years, well, it seems that that stuff does not have a years long shelf life, as both packets looked like large chunks of hard candy.
I took one and tossed in a five gallon pail of water and the other into the one-half whiskey barrel, where they did start to dissolve. I tip my hat to you.
Avatar for porkpal
Jun 14, 2021 3:06 PM CST
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX (Zone 9a)
Cat Lover Charter ATP Member Keeper of Poultry I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Dog Lover Keeps Horses
Roses Plant Identifier Farmer Raises cows Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Garden Ideas: Level 2
Let us know what happens.
Porkpal
Avatar for RpR
Jun 19, 2021 5:44 PM CST
Name: Dr. Demento Jr.
Minnesota (Zone 3b)
Went home some days ago and roses down south seem to be doing well but I did nothing more than water them and even though some were blooming gave no more than a casual glance as other work had to be done and time was short.

Heading back tomorrow and will see how many are dead or not worth dickering with and see if Roses Unlimited still have some I want to order.
Last look two were at the point of not wasting time and space on, plus I have several bags of soil/compost I never used so replacing original soil will be no hassle.
As there are no Cocoa Bean shells any where, may bite the bullet and put crushed pine bark in the gap I had not bean shells for. I tip my hat to you.
Image
Jun 19, 2021 6:07 PM CST
Name: Zoƫ
Albuquerque NM, Elev 5310 ft (Zone 7b)
Bee Lover Bookworm Cat Lover Composter Container Gardener Herbs
Region: New Mexico Salvias Enjoys or suffers hot summers
RpR said: ... I was also going to fertilize my tomatoes with some old Miracle Grow Tomato Fertilizer, the powder in a box that has sat in the garden cupboard for a few years, well, it seems that that stuff does not have a years long shelf life, as both packets looked like large chunks of hard candy.
I took one and tossed in a five gallon pail of water and the other into the one-half whiskey barrel, where they did start to dissolve. I tip my hat to you.


RpR, I had some in an unopened packet that had sat for a couple of years and gotten hard like that. I slammed it around until it was mostly crumbly and used it. Seemed to work fine. I suspect that MG is like Twinkies...indefinite shelf life Thumbs up
For me, gardening is really just an excuse for playing in the dirt. Admittedly, plants are a satisfying by-product.
Avatar for RpR
Jun 29, 2021 12:31 PM CST
Name: Dr. Demento Jr.
Minnesota (Zone 3b)
Got to the garden down South and the roses are alive , and some are blooming but not looking like I want it to.

Now I am paying the penalty for not blowing the leaf debris from the roses when uncovered them, and not putting a fabric over the entire bed last fall.
Weeds which consist of Crab Grass, Trees, DAMNED Peruvian Potatoes, and others are sprouting like mad.
Worst weed infestation in a lot of years.
As I spent 10 hours weeding the vegetable garden and had to get back up North, although it turns out I did not, I simply did not have time to spend hours weeding the roses and giving them the attention they need.
New ones are supposed to be in the mail so when they arrive I will do a thorough weed, fertilizing and watering although the whole bed needs more than that to look as good as it did at one time.

I keep forgetting to take the Big Roses fertilizer along so I have not applied it to the roses down South yet but the ones up North look good.
Avatar for porkpal
Jun 29, 2021 6:04 PM CST
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX (Zone 9a)
Cat Lover Charter ATP Member Keeper of Poultry I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Dog Lover Keeps Horses
Roses Plant Identifier Farmer Raises cows Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Garden Ideas: Level 2
Maintaining two separated gardens must be a struggle. My roses are repeatedly swallowed in weeds and they are all on just one rather spread out piece of farm.
Porkpal
Avatar for RpR
Jun 29, 2021 6:43 PM CST
Name: Dr. Demento Jr.
Minnesota (Zone 3b)
porkpal said:Maintaining two separated gardens must be a struggle. My roses are repeatedly swallowed in weeds and they are all on just one rather spread out piece of farm.

In years past I mulched heavily with Eucalyptus till disappeared from the market some years back and now Cocoa Bean Hulls plus I would bury and cover the beds with fabric which made weed control far, far, far easier.

Past few years fabric was wearing out and I just did not put the effort in I had done for decades before so I learned the hard way you snooze you lose.
I will spend the bucks to get a new car cover (which was what I used for a long time as it is far, far better than landscape fabric) to use down South which will make covering and uncovering the rose far more efficient than just dumping leaves on and in spring removing the leaves while trying to do so without stabbing a rose with a fork.
This spring I learned which roses were really , really tough as some poked right through the leaf cover, which is also a sign I may not have put enough down but due to the late hard freezes, I uncovered very late this year which is better than losing roses to a hard freeze after uncovering too early -- the way I lost the majority of roses ten years ago.
I will probably return to burying the roses down South again as survival rate was much more consistent.

Up North as it is a narrow long bed, that gets a very heavy leaf cover, the past few years have shown that up there simple heavy leaf cover with the remnants of the old fabric has worked quite well the past two years.

Greatest concern is 90 percent of the roses down South are now brand new to only two years old and not reaching what I call established status at the rate I am used to. ---- (Bad thing is my mindset is still used to having many quality but cheap roses available , when we had far more garden shops up here, so to plant and lose a rose was not big deal for a long time as I simply put a different one/s in as need be.
Now there are no good cheap roses and variety is gone with the defunct garden shops while that and my half-arsed gardening for too long have come back to bite me.) I tip my hat to you.
Avatar for RpR
Jul 2, 2021 9:52 PM CST
Name: Dr. Demento Jr.
Minnesota (Zone 3b)
I planted my 3 newest roses today.
Chicago Peace
John Armstrong
Gov. Rosellini

I watered the roses before planting so I could pull weeds first, it is so stinkin dry.
One hole I dug for a new rose, was grey dry 8 inches down and not much better 16 inches down.
Even after watering the roses for an hour, when I pulled the weeds, mostly little trees, underneath the Cocoa Bean Hulls it was dry.
Normally they form a moist mat, not this year.
Bed looks presentable now weeded and the new roses are looking much better.

Pulled three dead ones , although one was an amputated roots rose, from Home Depot last year, that still had a touch of green but was more like Monte Python -- I'm not quite dead yet.
Other two had small , heck, tiny root base but look to have been own root roses when planted.
There is one that I was going to pull but when I pushed the CC hulls back it was very green.
There is one more, known dead one, looks more like a stick, so when I pull that next time, if the big green stump has done nothing it will also become steak cooking fodder.

Watered the roses, and part of the veggie garden for another hour before I left after giving them a heavy dose of Grow Big Roses fertilizer, therefore; the fertilizer experiment has begun.
Have good 4th of July. I tip my hat to you.
Avatar for RpR
Jul 15, 2021 11:04 PM CST
Name: Dr. Demento Jr.
Minnesota (Zone 3b)
RpR said:Have any of you used: Great Big Roses fertilizer?
I saw a special deal for getting Amazon C-card in which a gallon of the fertilizer and large bag of Dr Earth Total Advantage Rose N Floral Plant Mix only cost me 51 dollars total.


I thought the bag of Dr. Earth would be used next year but I used it to plant my three roses awhile bac,
It was a very dry rust red colour but we shall see how well it works.
Avatar for RpR
Jul 26, 2021 9:02 PM CST
Name: Dr. Demento Jr.
Minnesota (Zone 3b)
Roses down South look healthy , so far.
I watered heavily last week and out side of some Crab Grass and a few other annoyances, weeds are now few and far between.

Annoyingly, when ever I get home the roses have bloomed or are about to bloom but not when I am there.
Up North they are blooming , at least to some degree at the same time but down South they do it solo.

I have what I imagine is an old rose that died and I did not dig it out but the old base root has survived as I have a all greens and no flower rose that also looks quite healthy I will dig out. I tip my hat to you.
Avatar for RpR
Nov 17, 2021 5:25 PM CST
Name: Dr. Demento Jr.
Minnesota (Zone 3b)
I covered the roses up North last weekend, and am doing said same down South now.

I was going to bury the roses here as I did up North but I found that they were covered with loose leaves and I went through and made chart of where the new ones were located but I had to dig through the leaves , apporx. 4-7 inches to find the roses and realized if I buried them come spring I would have no idea where they were, and no longer enjoy the hide a seek routine.

Now if they were all at least 8-12 high, I might do other wise but most were 6-7 inches high after I trimmed them.
SO I covered them with fabric, I have to get more as I am short, and have started to put leaves over the ones already covered.
I is nasty windy up here , so I have to put what ever is handy on the leaves to stop them from blowing off.
Fortunately I bagged well over a dozen bags of leaves here at home last week, while up North I found over a dozen bags of leaves at one dudes house to used them.

I have 4 dead new roses, and found another dead one while charting them plus one that probably will be belly-up next spring, so I will contact the seller of the dead new ones, and simply replace the dead older ones.
Annoyingly I had a sucker rose come out of nowhere that took off like it was shot out of a cannon; I pulled it but could not get to the end of the tap root and i was down well over a foot so I just cut it off.

Next year will be the last year I replace roses as the thrill is wearing off.
The drought this year probably is one reason the new ones are still small roses but they all were planted in new, top line soil, and were watered and fertilized well.
Besides the sprinkler running for at least an hour I often took 5 gallon cans of rain water and gave each rose at least a gallon.
The two new roses I put in up North grew more vigorously than those down South although the Black Bacarra up North took quite a bit of time before it responded well.

How the ones down South do next year will be the test of if this was worth the time and money. I tip my hat to you.
Avatar for MargieNY
Nov 24, 2021 8:53 PM CST
Name: Margie
NY (Zone 7a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Photo Contest Winner 2020 Garden Ideas: Level 1
RpR said:I covered the roses up North last weekend, and am doing said same down South now.

I was going to bury the roses here as I did up North but I found that they were covered with loose leaves and I went through and made chart of where the new ones were located but I had to dig through the leaves , apporx. 4-7 inches to find the roses and realized if I buried them come spring I would have no idea where they were, and no longer enjoy the hide a seek routine.

Now if they were all at least 8-12 high, I might do other wise but most were 6-7 inches high after I trimmed them.
SO I covered them with fabric, I have to get more as I am short, and have started to put leaves over the ones already covered.
I is nasty windy up here , so I have to put what ever is handy on the leaves to stop them from blowing off.
Fortunately I bagged well over a dozen bags of leaves here at home last week, while up North I found over a dozen bags of leaves at one dudes house to used them.

I have 4 dead new roses, and found another dead one while charting them plus one that probably will be belly-up next spring, so I will contact the seller of the dead new ones, and simply replace the dead older ones.
Annoyingly I had a sucker rose come out of nowhere that took off like it was shot out of a cannon; I pulled it but could not get to the end of the tap root and i was down well over a foot so I just cut it off.

Next year will be the last year I replace roses as the thrill is wearing off.
The drought this year probably is one reason the new ones are still small roses but they all were planted in new, top line soil, and were watered and fertilized well.
Besides the sprinkler running for at least an hour I often took 5 gallon cans of rain water and gave each rose at least a gallon.
The two new roses I put in up North grew more vigorously than those down South although the Black Bacarra up North took quite a bit of time before it responded well.

How the ones down South do next year will be the test of if this was worth the time and money. I tip my hat to you.


I map out my garden beds too. I also insert bamboo stakes into the ground and tie a wide ribbon bow on top. The ribbon has wire running through it to maintain it's shape. Here's a photo of what I am trying to explain. I drew a circle around the plant and a long line to identify the stake. The stakes come in packages - various lengths 4' , 6' etc.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Bon...


Thumb of 2021-11-25/MargieNY/af1657
After using the sprinkler to water your roses, did you find blackspot to be worse OR about the same regardless???.
#1 - My Spring flush and Fall flush are good but, during the summer - the 2nd flush - it's a complete disaster.
I have been reading more often than not that rose growers have a lovely first Spring flush and the summer is a complete wash out. I was thinking that after the 1st flush I should prune them down and not allow them to produce flowers in the heat of the summer. The few flowers that my roses produce in the hot humid summer are very small in size. In mid August, after a long awaiting rainfall they suffer from a terrible bout of blackspot and they don't recover till the temps begin to drop. By the end of August we have also had a few hard rainfalls. At that time, (Sept./ Oct.), new leaves have developed and I will get another decent flush of new flowers.
So this year, in addition to eliminating the second crappy flush, I will do the overhead watering in the early morning. The early morning watering will allow enough time for the leaves to dry and it will also hydrate the plant esp. with these drought conditions. Also I think it would be a good idea to remove the lowest leaves, near ground level so the spores will not splash up onto the bush.
Here's the thing...we have been told not to do overhead watering because it would bring on B/Spot. But it rains a lot in the Springtime, the flowers bloom and leaves appear a nice green color. It's in mid August the blackspot runs rampart. I think over the long hot humid months of July and August the fungus spores accumulate on the leaves and canes and the long awaited rain in August spreads the spores everywhere. I am thinking if I did overhead watering every other day the fungus will not have a chance to accumulate on the leaves.
#2 - I am going to try "lightly" spraying the rose leaves with a little calcium nitrate. Here's 2 articles and a few quotes:
https://leafyplace.com/calcium...

"Calcium nitrate is a useful fertilizer for pepper plants, tomatoes, and other greenhouse crops. Using calcium nitrate in hydroponics "feeds" plants that grow in water, giving them the essential nutrients they need to grow. Some flowering garden plants such as roses and gerbera also benefit from calcium ammonium nitrate solutions."
"Some plants are more susceptible to calcium deficiencies. For example, heat stress can deplete calcium levels in tomatoes. This results in flowers that drop prematurely, curled leaves, and blossom end rot."

https://www.gardeningknowhow.c...
"What does calcium nitrate do? It helps with cell formation but it also neutralizes acids to detoxify the plant. The nitrogen component is also responsible for fueling protein production and essentially leafy growth. Heat and moisture stress can cause calcium deficiencies in certain crops, like tomatoes. This is when to use calcium nitrate. Its combined nutrients can help cell growth stabilize and fuel leafy development."
Observe, observe, observe
We are fortunate to "see" & appreciate nature in ways others are blind.
Last edited by MargieNY Nov 24, 2021 10:29 PM Icon for preview
Avatar for RpR
Nov 25, 2021 11:58 PM CST
Name: Dr. Demento Jr.
Minnesota (Zone 3b)
I did not get home as often this year as I normally would but as one third of the roses were new, I did get there more often early in the year to water them over-head and by five gallon pail.

I would not call what I had flushes, more like here-there, willy-nilly all summer .
I did pick leaves off of some of the plants but as I had very, very little Black-Spot, very late in the year, I was not as fussy with that; the roses up north, where I had a true flush, bloomed heavily late in the summer and were in the process of continuing with heavy blooms when I picked all the leaves and cut them down for winter.
Even there the last Hybrid Tea I planted up there, did not really get into gear until late August.

Down South some had weak canes with drooping flowers and due to not being there as often, I often saw where a bloom had been rather than an actual flower; I did cut off some plants getting ready for a late new flush, but the South was anemic compared to the North.
I did have a bit of insect problem up North but after I sprayed them twice that went away.

I tried to water the South rose bed at least once a week but a few time it was ten days to two weeks apart and the South garden , vegetable and rose was hit far harder by the drought than the North, even with the North irrigation system being found to be peeing rather than spraying for some reason for weeks.
I watered the potatoes down South some times for an hour longer than the roses and even with the thick leaf mulch, when I dug potatoes down there in some areas, eight inches down the ground was dry, i.e. you could not get it to clump, so even with often well over 1 hour on the roses and individual watering I am wondering how well they were watered.
(The North garden got hand watered often even with the irrigation system to add fertilizer and bio-fungicide.)

I have found that, that, thick application of Cocoa Bean Hulls, with bio-fungicide does a very good job of helping control Black-Spot.
I was a bit annoyed that all new ones looked good for a long but some started to show signs of going belly-up when quite frequent rains returned late in the year.
That Calcium bit is intriguing, as I do have leaf curling tomatoes , on and off, but Blossom-End Rot is very rare.
Probably try it next year, nothing to lose.
Merry Christmas. I tip my hat to you.
Avatar for RpR
Dec 15, 2021 5:56 PM CST
Name: Dr. Demento Jr.
Minnesota (Zone 3b)
With the semi-wet warm-cold, warm-cold, warm-cold we have been getting, I have little concern about roses getting hit by cold.
Down South I still still have three bags of leaves in case we get hard sub-zero in January-March, and up North the leaves are plenty deep.

Ma's old, very old wild rose bed which used to be approx. 5 feet by 2 feet, after I mowed of the Lilies of the Valley and Peonies last fall is now down to approx. 2 feet by 1 foot.
I may dig out a lot of the roots still there as it has not been what it once was for a long, long time and the whole area need a redo; I have not redone the Lilies for near twenty years and if I dig that area up, i.e. roto-till I might as well redo the whole area.
Last edited by RpR Dec 16, 2021 8:30 PM Icon for preview
Avatar for MargieNY
Dec 15, 2021 8:18 PM CST
Name: Margie
NY (Zone 7a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Photo Contest Winner 2020 Garden Ideas: Level 1
RpR, if you roto-till that area what will you replace that area with?
Observe, observe, observe
We are fortunate to "see" & appreciate nature in ways others are blind.
Avatar for RpR
Dec 15, 2021 8:38 PM CST
Name: Dr. Demento Jr.
Minnesota (Zone 3b)
MargieNY said:RpR, if you roto-till that area what will you replace that area with?

More Lilies of the Valley, -- I will leave some of the larger rose roots, a lot fewer and for once fertilize and tend to them rather than let them fend for them selves. -- (Although one reason I reduced them , they were sending out suckers in all directions and would have in a few years taken over a LOT of the Lilly bed.)

I ripped a LARGE peony out of the Lily bed two Falls ago, so it needs a redo and Lillies of the Valley fill in quickly to the point after x years too many and they crowd them selves till the bloom is mediocre at best.
The bed needs to be lowered an inch or more ( A problem in a huge amount of my gardens and lawn) as it used to be lower than the side-walk but is now level to higher.
Last edited by RpR Dec 16, 2021 8:30 PM Icon for preview
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