Roses forum: danas parade

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Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Forum moderator Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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zuzu
Jun 1, 2010 5:32 PM CST

Moderator

I bought one at Walmart a couple of years ago too. You're lucky (or a better gardener than I). Mine didn't make it.

By the way, it didn't even have a separate tag, as I recall. You would have had to keep the bag it came in to know what it was.
Name: dana aka iris28
tristate area, ky z6b
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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dana
Jun 1, 2010 5:49 PM CST
yes it was a body bag(i forgot they dont have the plastic tags or the metal ones) .. i got 3 .. blaze a yellow and that one.. the yellow didnt make it .. this one sat and sat only one bloom for 2 yrs.. then i started gardening and lo and behold it started to grow. its a weird grower, it is like a giant ht.. the canes are rigid and it is constantly changing shape because the canes just randomly go brown. it loves to be pruned. blaze also waited for me to start gardening before it exploded. oh and did i mention that i planted blaze ''orchid masterpiece'' and the yellow about 8" to a foot apart! i still curse my self for that.. but its pretty any way..
Name: dana aka iris28
tristate area, ky z6b
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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dana
Jun 1, 2010 5:58 PM CST
i ve always known it was a climbing version of a ht... which i dont care much for.. they just dont fill out like a climber that isnt a sport of a ht. so i think the non climbing version would be great for me to try.. i just love the blooms. and the smell.. i saw that one of its parents is grey dawn! thats one that ive wanted for a long time.. that means its in the brownie family Big Grin .. it has that tan color in the center.. my fave color in roses.. grey tan lavender.. too bad that gene also produces weaker plants.. so ive found..
Zuzu do you think lavender/tan/grey/silver color genes make a not as vigorous rose?
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Forum moderator Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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zuzu
Jun 1, 2010 6:26 PM CST

Moderator

I've found that anything in the "brownie family" does well when it's grafted and not so well when it isn't.
Name: Terri Dunning
NE TX, zone 8a
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
emoryterri
Jun 9, 2010 7:50 PM CST
The Eden photo is just perfect.
Terri
Name: Toni
Denver Metro (Zone 5a)
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.
Charter ATP Member Irises Salvias Xeriscape Birds I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Procrastinator The WITWIT Badge Region: Colorado Enjoys or suffers cold winters Cat Lover
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Skiekitty
Jun 10, 2010 9:48 AM CST
Vintage has Orchid Masterpiece only as a custom rooting. Why wouldn't they want to mass produce something as gorgeous as that?
Roses are one of my passions! Just opened, my Etsy shop (to fund my rose hobby)! http://www.etsy.com/shop/Tweet...
Name: Mike Stewart
Lower Hudson Valley, NY (Zone 6b)
Seed Starter Container Gardener Roses Bulbs I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Peonies
Clematis Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Dog Lover Cat Lover Birds Region: New York
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Mike
Jun 11, 2010 11:47 AM CST
Dana,

I just took a quick break from my desk work to get a cup of coffee and stroll through your beautiful parade of photos. They are just beautiful. We have many of the same varieties, you and I, but you also have ones I don't, so it's fun to see them here.

How is the Rose Midge problem this year? That's another thing you and I have in common.

For those of you who have never experienced rose midges, pray seven times a day, offer sacrifices to the gods, perform ritualistic ceremonies, or whatever else you must do to keep them away. They are nearly invisible flies that will lay their eggs just beneath a bud or a within a new shoot and the resulting miniscule larva will eat just enough of the plant tissue to abort nearly all of your rose buds after the first full flush - and that's if you're lucky enough to get even the first flush. Thereafter, you will have a rose garden with an abundance of leaves and virtually no blooms for the rest of the year, or you'll have bent-over buds that never open. Even if they don't already exist in your area, you can unwittingly import them on a potted rose from an infected nursery.

And the midges can stay. Forever. The teeny-tiny larva drop off the plant, burrow themselves into a microscopic cacoon and can over-winter in the ground, no matter how cold it gets, to come back next year in their nearly invisible fly-stage, and start/resume the process all over again. They keep coming back like an unwelcome relative at the holidays - only worse, because they stay. And their population can explode exponentially - like an unwelcome relative's undisciplined children, only worse - the children don't destroy the rose blooms (due to the thorns) but the midges do!

Name: dana aka iris28
tristate area, ky z6b
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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dana
Jun 11, 2010 12:19 PM CST
lol .. its been manageable so far. as soon as it thawed i drenched everything in neem every 3 days.. at dawn and dusk. i had a really good first flush and i havnt seen any bent buds yet but im due for another neem soaking.. since new growth is starting again.
they came in on something. for sure. always QT!!

TONI, i think its a growth thing. it is a weird grower i have to constantly shape it. its a climber but the canes just jet out in all directions and they are straight and rigid. mines grafted. usually they dont root things that dont do well on their own roots. and since this one is in the lavender family it tends to do better grafted.
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Forum moderator Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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zuzu
Jun 11, 2010 2:34 PM CST

Moderator

How did you get rid of the midges, Mike?

Toni, just keep looking for Orchid Masterpiece at the big box stores. Dana and I both bought it in body bags. Mine died shortly thereafter, but so did the own-root one I bought from Vintage when they did offer it at a decent price -- not as decent as body-bag rose prices, of course, but not custom rooting either. All in all, I'd rather lose one after paying the Walmart or Home Depot price.
Name: Mike Stewart
Lower Hudson Valley, NY (Zone 6b)
Seed Starter Container Gardener Roses Bulbs I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Peonies
Clematis Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Dog Lover Cat Lover Birds Region: New York
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Mike
Jun 12, 2010 9:10 AM CST
Alas, Zuzu, I'm not rid of them, and probably never will be. I've already lost hundreds of buds that look like tiny little burnt match sticks. But after reading several scientific articles about the control of the Rose Midge (including a study done in a Petaluma nursery near you), I learned that sometimes the best one can hope to do is to keep the population low enough to continue to get some new blooms after the first flush. The Midge population is usually too small in the early spring to abort the entire first flush of blooms, but it doesn't take long for the population to grow exponentially because their regeneration/life cycle is just 12 - 14 days.

There are several ways to combat the population if one chooses to use chemicals. One of the challenges is that Midge eggs are deposited into a tiny hole that the fly bores into the base of a bud or inside the soft tissue of a new shoot. As a result, contact insecticides, insecticidal soaps or horticultural oil sprays are typically useless against the miniscule larva inside the bud (but can temporarily knock down the adult fly population the insecticide comes into direct contact with). Insecticidal soaps, horticultural oils, and pyrethrin sprays (not to be confused with synthetic permethrin sprays) are "easier" on the environment because of their short, temporary impact.

On the other hand, certain kinds of systemic insecticides (like imidicloprid, which is absorbed and distributed within the plant) will kill the Midge larva after they hatch and begin feeding on the tissue inside the bud. There are typically 8 - 12 larva inside each bud, so it doesn't stop the destruction of that particular bud, but it prevents those larva from maturing, emerging from the bud, dropping to the ground and pupating into Midge flies in two week's time. This can reduce the Midge's population growth inside the garden, but doesn't do anything against flies coming into the garden from other locations, who can still damage emerging buds by laying new eggs in them.

Imidicloprid can also be applied directly to the soil as a diluted drench, and this can prevent the larva from pupating and developing into the Midge fly. Unfortunately, it also kills lots of other insects and ground-dwelling organisms (I've read mixed research results where earthworms are concerned). Whenever potent insecticides are applied, I believe it is best not to use granules so that birds won't eat them and get poisoned. I believe imidicloprid granules can be toxic to birds, so in my opinion the liquid form is better -- but it's important to apply it at dusk after the bees have returned to their nests. Otherwise, I think imidicloprid can kill bees that come into direct contact with it from a sprayer or from wet residue. There's some debate as to whether imidicloprid is harmful to bees from the pollen of plants that absorb it.

An alternative to using imidicloprid as a soil drench is to use Azadirachtin, which is derived from the Neem plant (but is not Neem oil). It works as a larvicide; once the larva come into contact with it, they cannot evolve past the larva stage due to the way the chemical interacts with their development.

To say the least, it's complicated, and I absolutely hate using insecticides because I don't like killing anything, whether it's a "beneficial" insect or not. I've made some difficult choices to try to keep the garden blooming without totally wrecking the backyard ecosystem.

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