New and Unread Tree-Mails
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Name: Elena NYC (Zone 7a)              bxncbx Jul 10, 2021 5:59 PM CST |
Every year I get at least one flower on Hanalei Bay that does this weirdness.  This flower is deformed but normal flowers have done it too. Part of the petal is wrapped around the stamen. Is there a name for this? Has anyone else seen this? I've only see it on this cultivar. |
Name: Vickie Elberfeld, Indiana, USA (Zone 6b)             blue23rose Jul 10, 2021 6:11 PM CST |
| Very odd indeed. But I'm not sure there is a name for this anomaly. Vickie May all your weeds be wildflowers. ~Author Unknown |
Name: Tim West Chicago, IL (Zone 5a)   Lyshack Jul 10, 2021 7:39 PM CST |
I can't remember the name, but I think there is a term for when petals, or parts of petals attach to and wrap around stamen. epipetalous? epiphyllous? <- guesses with the help of Google. Google is never wrong.  |
Name: Vickie Elberfeld, Indiana, USA (Zone 6b) blue23rose Jul 11, 2021 7:10 AM CST |
| Tim, I think you are correct. Great sleuthing! Vickie May all your weeds be wildflowers. ~Author Unknown |
Name: Ann Columbus, Ohio (Zone 6a)     Hortaholic Jul 11, 2021 10:33 AM CST |
bxncbx said:Every year I get at least one flower on Hanalei Bay that does this weirdness. Elena, I've seen this in some other cultivars which "normally" produce cristate appendages from the base of the petal. The stamens are attached at the base of the petal where it joins the throat. If the appendage rolls inward it can encase the base of the stamen. I'd consider this one of the variations of cristate. I see that 'Hanalei Bay' is normally a regular single form. Apparently it has some cristate genes which are only occasionally expressed. This flower superficially appears to be a dimer - 2 petals, 2 sepals - but if so it would have only 4 stamens. This flower has 6 I think? So, part of that irregular-looking petal on the left is actually an incompletely formed sepal and petal with accompanying stamens, as best I can make out from the picture. Or perhaps the sepal is hidden. The ovary probably had 3 chambers. The ovary of a dimer only has two. Ann Ann (formerly Pat; too many Pats) my middle name |
Name: Maurice Grey County, Ontario (Zone 4b)  admmad Jul 11, 2021 12:52 PM CST |
I would agree with @Hortaholic about the cristate involvement/background. Below is part of the ancestry of 'Hanalei Bay' showing that the obvious source is the tet. conversion of 'Lavender Blue Baby' in the ancestry of both parents. Maurice |
Name: Elena NYC (Zone 7a) bxncbx Jul 11, 2021 4:46 PM CST |
| Thanks guys! I had no idea that having cristate genes could cause this. I also didn't know that tet conversions are a source of cristate genes. Ann I'm not sure what was going on with that flower. I've had a lot of deformed blooms this year even on cultivars that usually bloom perfectly. Fruit Loops has been especially bad. It's almost as if the bud was going to abort but somehow managed to survive and bloom. |
Name: Maurice Grey County, Ontario (Zone 4b) admmad Jul 11, 2021 5:41 PM CST |
| @bxncbx It is not so much that tet conversions are a source as much as it is specifically 'Lavender Blue Baby' that is the source. Maurice |
Name: Ann Columbus, Ohio (Zone 6a) Hortaholic Jul 11, 2021 7:34 PM CST |
admmad said:@bxncbx It is not so much that tet conversions are a source as much as it is specifically 'Lavender Blue Baby' that is the source. @admmad, I agree, Maurice, and that was great detective work tracing the lineage! 👍🏻 Ann Edited to add @ address for Maurice Ann (formerly Pat; too many Pats) my middle name |
Name: Nan southeast Georgia (Zone 8b)     DeweyRooter Jul 12, 2021 6:10 AM CST |
| Elena, if this is a consistent issue with this plant, maybe you should post the picture in the database. |
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