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Avatar for fullrun
Jul 23, 2021 1:44 PM CST
Name: Alex
CT (Zone 5b)
The Daylily is the Hemerocallis "Razzle Dazzle Them"

Two Buds at this point have attempted to open... stopped on partial way and withered. We noticed on the same stalk, buds that had spurs or bumps on their surfaces. Currently there are three stalks on the plant... only one of the stalks has buds with these enations (irregularities). I read that those spurs could be possibly caused by thrips. I've included several photos for your review: the buds as well a withered lily that I cut open. I saw no larvae or sign of insects... there was just a wetness the was somewhat slimy. The lily was purchased from a very reputable grower with several others. All have bloomed beautifully.

Confused MY QUESTIONS:
WHAT''s GOING ON?
HOW SHOULD I ADDRESS OR TREAT IT?
SHOULD I USE A SOAPY INSECTICIDE ON THE BUDS?

Your help and feedback are greatly appreciated. Thank you for taking the time to read and respond.
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Jul 23, 2021 2:11 PM CST
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Daylilies Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Region: Alabama
@fullrun, Welcome!
I often used to see bumps on my buds like the ones you show. I also read it might be an indication of thrip damage, but no one seemed to be sure. If the bumps were caused by thrip damage, the blooms were never stopped from opening like yours. I am wondering if it is just a bloom with a very fancy edge that is getting hung up and not being able to open. Could be some other insect damage I suppose, I will look forward to reading the others answers to your question.
Last edited by Seedfork Jul 23, 2021 2:48 PM Icon for preview
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Jul 23, 2021 2:46 PM CST
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4b)
Annuals Native Plants and Wildflowers Keeps Horses Dog Lover Daylilies Region: Canadian
Butterflies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Garden Sages Plant Identifier
The usual assumption is that enations on daylily buds are caused by thrips, although it has never actually been proven. If thrips or the fancy edge or both prevent the bud from opening then presumably it would eventually go slimy just like any other spent bloom. The concern of course with slimy unopening blooms is gall midge but it doesn't really look like that and there were no larvae so that's good!

Not much has been written about that particular cultivar so I don't know if it has a tendency to "hang". Perhaps someone else here grows it. What has the weather been like in your location? Welcome to the NGA forums! Welcome!
Avatar for fullrun
Jul 23, 2021 3:09 PM CST
Name: Alex
CT (Zone 5b)
@Seedfork & @sooby Thank You! Thank You!

Thank You So Much!!! Informative... Never Considered that the ruffled edges would engage and hang each other up. And we could see no sign of thrips or other insects.

Is there anything the one can do to help or prevent the pedals from engaging and hanging themselves up?



Here is a photo of Razzle Dazzle Them when opened.




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Jul 23, 2021 3:48 PM CST
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Daylilies Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Region: Alabama
@diggerofdirt,
Have you had problems with this plant not wanting to open first blooms? Does it improve over the season if so?
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Jul 23, 2021 5:09 PM CST
Name: Elena
NYC (Zone 7a)
Bee Lover Vegetable Grower Plant and/or Seed Trader Spiders! Seed Starter Garden Procrastinator
Peonies Organic Gardener Hybridizer Growing under artificial light Daylilies Container Gardener
I have a couple of very plain cultivars are doing the same thing. These are diploids that have always opened fine before. No insect damage or bumpy buds. Just really thick petals that don't open properly.

My guess (and that's all it is) is that the ridiculous amount of rain we've gotten this month is somehow distorting the flowers. Scapes seem thicker this year on a lot of plants. And some are getting these almost waxy sepals that prevent the flowers from fully opening. It isn't every flower, just some of them.

Fruit Loops has been awful and so was Zada Mae. When I deadhead those flowers are much thicker and harder to pinch off. I have noticed some tets getting thicker but they've managed to open okay.
Avatar for fullrun
Jul 23, 2021 8:00 PM CST
Name: Alex
CT (Zone 5b)
@Seedfork

Larry, it was planted last summer and this is the first season it has bloomed. We received it as fans from a reputable grower.
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Jul 23, 2021 8:01 PM CST
Name: Nancy
Bowling Green Kentucky (Zone 6b)
How new is this daylily? I have had this happen occasionally on new plants, but improved as they settled in.
Avatar for fullrun
Jul 23, 2021 8:14 PM CST
Name: Alex
CT (Zone 5b)
@bxncbx

Thanks, Elena... Yes we've been hit here in Litchfield County, CT with endless days of hard down pour. But, we have about five other varieties of day lilies... and they have done gloriously. And everything has bloomed outrageously this year.. And, yes the scapes on them are lush and thick. It's true that this particular has not only ruffled pedals but ones that are much larger and thicker than the others. There are currently three other buds that should open tomorrow... and we are watching them carefully.

I'm including photos of two of the other varieties that we have... day lilies seem to flourish here.



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Avatar for fullrun
Jul 23, 2021 8:16 PM CST
Name: Alex
CT (Zone 5b)
alilyfan said:How new is this daylily? I have had this happen occasionally on new plants, but improved as they settled in.


It was planted late last season... and this is the first season it has developed buds and bloomed.
Last edited by fullrun Jul 23, 2021 8:19 PM Icon for preview
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Jul 23, 2021 9:26 PM CST
Name: Elena
NYC (Zone 7a)
Bee Lover Vegetable Grower Plant and/or Seed Trader Spiders! Seed Starter Garden Procrastinator
Peonies Organic Gardener Hybridizer Growing under artificial light Daylilies Container Gardener
@fullrun most of my daylilies have done great. I was just surprised that some had this issue. I've had Zada Mae for over a decade and it has never performed this poorly. Fruit Loops has about two odd blooms for every good one. Usually every bloom is perfect.

I fully expect both to do better next year. On the flip side, some poor performers have put on a real show this year! They must love all this rain!

Overall I had a great season. It's not over yet but when the late bloomers start I know things are winding down.
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Jul 24, 2021 7:47 AM CST
Name: Julie C
Roanoke, VA (Zone 7a)
Daylilies Region: Virginia Photo Contest Winner: 2015 Heucheras Cat Lover Hummingbirder
Clematis Lilies Birds Garden Art Butterflies Celebrating Gardening: 2015
When judging daylily exhibitions, judges panels almost always concur ( a panel is a group of 3 judges, two senior judges and the third can be a junior judge) that bumps on a bloom indicate the presence of thrips and will deduct points accordingly. On the open bloom or blooms, we almost always see evidence that thrips have been at work. I've judged shows in my region and adjacent regions for years, and this has been the line of thought.

In my own gardens, I've seen evidence that the bumps indicate thrips.
Avatar for fullrun
Jul 24, 2021 12:44 PM CST
Name: Alex
CT (Zone 5b)
To The Above

For those of you who believed and/or suggested the possibility that due to the complexity of the ruffled edges that the pedals might be getting hung up on each other... You were on the money.
Three other buds began opening yesterday afternoon.... This morning you could see that two of them needed a little help in disengaging their pedal edges... a bit hooked on each .... and, thus, they finished opening with their splendor. The pedals are long (the diameter of the flower 6.5") with ruffled and convoluted edges and you can see how they could get themselves into trouble.

FOR ALL OF YOU WHO CONTRIBUTED TO MY THREAD... THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME AND INPUT.. Thank You! Thank You!

"RAZZLE DAZZLE THEM"
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Avatar for fullrun
Jul 24, 2021 12:53 PM CST
Name: Alex
CT (Zone 5b)
floota said:When judging daylily exhibitions, judges panels almost always concur ( a panel is a group of 3 judges, two senior judges and the third can be a junior judge) that bumps on a bloom indicate the presence of thrips and will deduct points accordingly. On the open bloom or blooms, we almost always see evidence that thrips have been at work. I've judged shows in my region and adjacent regions for years, and this has been the line of thought.

In my own gardens, I've seen evidence that the bumps indicate thrips.


Whats was interesting to me was when I did research on thrips (this being the first time I had heard of them), I found their were numerous varieties of them.... and that some were actually beneficial to the garden... feeding on those insects that were destructive. I was also looking for a treatment for them... and was hesitant to spray either neem oil or a soap insecticide on the buds.
Avatar for Diggerofdirt
Jul 25, 2021 11:16 AM CST
Name: Roger & Karen
Birmingham, Al (Zone 7b)
Butterflies Critters Allowed Daylilies Hummingbirder Region: Alabama Seed Starter
Enjoys or suffers hot summers Plant and/or Seed Trader
It looked better this year than previous years. Next year Roger will have had it three years. Something about that three year thing ours improve tremendously . Thrip we have a problem with every year. Some places more than others like different beds will get them others not so much.. Even with the thrip after the first few struggle,it opens .
Every home needs a daylily, and every daylily needs a home.
Last edited by Diggerofdirt Jul 25, 2021 11:18 AM Icon for preview
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Aug 25, 2021 5:24 PM CST
Name: Gary
Pennsylvania (Zone 6a)
If I pick the pods and empty them of the seeds on a dry day what is the purpose of drying them a few days before chilling prices? Thanks
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Aug 25, 2021 5:46 PM CST
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Daylilies Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Region: Alabama
I picked a few seed pods yesterday that I had over looked, the pods were wide open and the seeds were just barely hanging in the pods. The pod was completely dried up and brittle. So I did not bother waiting an extra day, I just popped some of the seeds in the baggies with a squirt of water and into the fridge they went. The others I directly planted into some cups. So if I think the seeds have already been drying for a few days in a dry pod I don't bother letting them dry another day. I understand the purpose of drying the seed is to help prevent rot, so as long as the seeds have dried well I see no need in them drying any more. If the seeds are coming out of a green pod that has just had not yet cracked open, or has barely cracked open then I think the drying time would depend on how green the pods might be and how moist the seeds might be. Most of the time with the temps we have I just dry the seeds for a day in the shed with the fan running.
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Aug 25, 2021 6:33 PM CST
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4b)
Annuals Native Plants and Wildflowers Keeps Horses Dog Lover Daylilies Region: Canadian
Butterflies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Garden Sages Plant Identifier
MochaJoe said:If I pick the pods and empty them of the seeds on a dry day what is the purpose of drying them a few days before chilling prices? Thanks


It depends what you mean by the chilling process (I assume that prices was an auto-correct?). There is refrigeration (dry) for storage purposes, and there is refrigeration damp (stratification) for breaking seed dormancy and subsequently faster, more even, germination when they are started. If you are going to stratify right away then I don't see the point of drying them first.
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Aug 26, 2021 4:56 AM CST
Name: Gary
Pennsylvania (Zone 6a)
Ha didn't notice that darn autocorrect . Thanks to you both for your speedy response 👏
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