Daylilies forum→Sunlight and Pod Setting

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Name: Orion
Boston, MA (Zone 6b)
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plasko20
Jul 23, 2021 12:35 PM CST
Oh, a weather-related question:
Do daylilies require sunlight to form seeds?
I have had a terrible time with them creating pods, but we have had a lot of cloud and rain the past few weeks.
That said, most of them are new (SF or DF, with the 'oldest' planted in fall 2020), so may be focusing on making roots rather than seeds. The ones that do have pods have the most fans, I have noted (3 or more fans).
I have ruled out squirrel-hooliganism, as a culprit.
I now have a freezer full of dried pollen for next year, but that is so far away, and I am not good at patience. Is there anything I can try with the final few blooms yet to come?
I have watched tutorial videos on hybridizing (e.g. this Dan Hansen one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?... ), and I think I am all set with the basics.
But does the weather play a role in seed formation (aside from the obvious washing away of the pollen when it rains)?
Gardening: So exciting I wet my plants!
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
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Seedfork
Jul 23, 2021 1:14 PM CST
When temps get up above 90 it is often hard to get pods to set. Some people move plants to the shade or indoors to get them to set pods. Also as nice as it would be for me to go out early, the pollen on my plants is seldom fluffy before 10:000. I have actually had a pretty good pod setting year this year even with what seems like everyday rain. For me May and June are my months to set pods, July and August I harvest them, and hopefully OCT, and Nov. I will plant them, first in small cups then out in the seedling beds after they get big enough.
I envy you having pollen in the freezer, I just never seem to get around to that.
Name: Orion
Boston, MA (Zone 6b)
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plasko20
Jul 23, 2021 1:43 PM CST
Seedfork said:When temps get up above 90 it is often hard to get pods to set. Some people move plants to the shade or indoors to get them to set pods. Also as nice as it would be for me to go out early, the pollen on my plants is seldom fluffy before 10:000. I have actually had a pretty good pod setting year this year even with what seems like everyday rain. For me May and June are my months to set pods, July and August I harvest them, and hopefully OCT, and Nov. I will plant them, first in small cups then out in the seedling beds after they get big enough.
I envy you having pollen in the freezer, I just never seem to get around to that.


Thanks for the info. I envy you more for having seeds to play with. Looks like I will be visiting the LA for more seeds this fall.
I even read up on 'stigma exudate' which is fascinating stuff, and tried cross-species transplantation of exudate from lilium just in case my daylily pistils were not making enough exudate to activate the pollen (my big lillies were dripping with the stuff). But I did not take note of which ones I did in the experiment so am unsure if it helped or did not.
If exudate interests anyone, here is an article I found fascinating:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/p...
Gardening: So exciting I wet my plants!
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Daylilies Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier
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Seedfork
Jul 23, 2021 1:53 PM CST
Maybe check and see if the plants you are crossing are pod and pollen fertile? Some are sterile both ways even.
New England (Zone 5b)
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SummerBee
Jul 23, 2021 2:01 PM CST
I agree with Larry!
My success rate has been MUCH higher this year even with all the rain we've had. I think drought conditions/extreme heat make it harder for a cross to take.

If it's too hot or too wet my success rate is way down. I also set pods around 11/11:30am as that seems like the best time (pollen is fluffy etc.). I have never frozen pollen but have stored some in the fridge for a few days.

A lot of trial and error and being at the mercy of the weather but still fun!
Name: Dave
Wood Co TX & Huron Co MI
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SunriseSide
Jul 23, 2021 2:59 PM CST
And, since you weren't specific...make sure your ploidy matches, dip to dip; tet to tet.
As to your specific question, I don't think you need to have 🌞 to set a pod
Life is better at the lake.
Name: Orion
Boston, MA (Zone 6b)
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plasko20
Jul 23, 2021 3:25 PM CST
Thanks, Dave. I religiously do this (am slightly OCD about note-taking).

Thanks SummerBee: Depending where in New England you are, we may be not too far from one-another and could be affected by the same weather, pretty much. So I can probably rule weather out as a factor, then.

Thanks, Larry. I did the check, and if the info is correct they all should be a "go" for fertility. Plus even by dumb luck I should be getting more than currently. As the saying goes "even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while".

Still, the weekend is coming so I can definitely do later hybridization as suggested by both of you.

Did I accidentally make a new thread? I thought this was posted in the weather thread. I must be going bananas.
Gardening: So exciting I wet my plants!
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Daylilies Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Region: Alabama
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Seedfork
Jul 23, 2021 3:51 PM CST
@plasko20
I thought I saw where Char said she moved it.

Wildbirds
Jul 23, 2021 4:05 PM CST
To have viable pollen earlier in the morning ("Doesn't puff-up until later ... 10 AM etc.") I've successfully brought blooms in & refrigerated overnite in a shallow bowl with a film of water (This more-or-less suspends them until brought out to the warmth - sometimes.) .... Leave certain ones out on the kitchen counter .... simply played about with method & timing with the idea that drier indoor stable temps would allow the pods 'chemistry' to bring the pollen grains to suitability earlier. I've even picked a few buds/blooms before dawn by lantern-lite & let them open on the kitchen counter 'dry' just sitting there. 2021 is going down as 'The Year of The Pods' hereabouts. Collecting pods now. (First pollination was May 24-25th) WILL have far more than I can/will use ...

Pollinating is like every other aspect of gardening. Some things work. Some don't. Some are mysteries to be analyzed & solved to be understood. Example: Today while pollinating routinely I found 19 tags from Huben's 'FROZEN' that were duds. No pods forming. Didn't take on those earlier days I was playing breeder.... Playing bumble-bee ... Yet I DO have successful 'FROZEN' pods developing (Previous years also successfully collected pods) ..... What did I do incorrectly - where did I go wrong - ???

Hah! .... Really do love this strategy of trying to figure out & to control for my own purposes thousands of years of evolution. Nature, eh. Anyway ...
Name: Maurice
Grey County, Ontario (Zone 4b)
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admmad
Jul 24, 2021 5:04 AM CST
Temperature is extremely important for plants more or less governing much of their biology. If it is too high then it will affect seed setting and it will do so at temperatures that may be different for different cultivars.
However, daylilies also have compatibility issues. Some of the species are self-incompatible. That means if you use the plant's own pollen on it pods will not form at all or only rarely form and mature. When plants have self-incompatibility they must have ways to identify self pollen from non-self pollen. Unfortunately, that means one needs to collect many different (unrelated as possible) individuals of that species to get as many different "identifiers" as possible. I don't think many specimens of each species were used originally to form the daylily breeding populations so there can be compatibility issues between some pod and pollen parents.
Compatibility may be to blame if a cross sets a pod occasionally and then aborts it.
Some daylilies are pod sterile (or have very low fertility). Others are pollen sterile and yet others may be both pod and pollen sterile.
Then there is the problem of the natural lower fertility of tetraploids. They have problems in meiosis and will produce unbalanced chromosome numbers in some of their gametes and the corresponding lower fertility.
Maurice
[Last edited by admmad - Jul 24, 2021 5:15 AM (+)]
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Name: Maurice
Grey County, Ontario (Zone 4b)
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admmad
Jul 24, 2021 12:02 PM CST
Arisumi examined the effect of temperature on seed set in daylily crosses. He concluded
" 'Frosted Pink', 'Blonde Princess', and 'Kanapaha' were temperature-sensitive as seed parents;
'Caballero' and 'Crimson Glory' as pollen parents, and
'Vulcan' as both seed and pollen parent."

He tested only those six parents so the fertility of all the daylilies he tested was affected in some way by temperature. He tested 75 F, 85 F and 95F.

The plants were grown at 75 F both before and after the temperature treatments. The temperature treatments were given to the plants for only six hours immediately after they were pollinated. The plants were pollinated between 8:30 and 9:30 am.
Thumb of 2021-07-24/admmad/3583a5

Maurice

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