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Avatar for Marcom1234
Aug 27, 2021 12:39 PM CST
Thread OP

MoonShadows said:Unless you live in a very high wind area, you don't need the extra strength, and it weighs so much more, making it more difficult to work with when covering your structure.


I definitely do not want to discount any advice I'm given especially after asking for it… my interest in the woven films is their durability. We have lots or branches that fall in my area, and am willing to deal with the difficulties of covering the structure, for the piece of mind of it not ripping or being damaged… so the 9 mil woven sounds good to me, but if there is performance as far as light goes I may reconsider using it.

Again, just trying to learn about this stuff and appreciate the feed back. 😀
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Aug 27, 2021 1:40 PM CST
Name: Jim
NE PA (Zone 6b)
Greenhouse Vegetable Grower Fruit Growers Seed Starter Canning and food preservation Region: Pennsylvania
Falling branches, if falling the right way to pierce, will go through either film. Most folks prefer the 6 mil film, but it is your choice.
My PA Food Forest Thread at NGA
“The one who plants trees, knowing that he will never sit in their shade, has at least started to understand the meaning of life.” (Rabindranath Tagore)
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Aug 27, 2021 3:41 PM CST
Name: Sandy B.
Ford River Twp, Michigan UP (Zone 4b)
(Zone 4b-maybe 5a)
Charter ATP Member Bee Lover Butterflies Birds I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Seed Starter Vegetable Grower Greenhouse Region: United States of America Region: Michigan Enjoys or suffers cold winters
One other issue that you might want to consider is light transmission - the clear 6-mil film is 91% (per layer), while the heavy woven "film" is 82%. I'm sure it would somewhat depend on what sort of plants you want to grow, whether that is sufficient for good growth - but it would be worth doing a bit of research on that (if you haven't already) Smiling
“Think occasionally of the suffering of which you spare yourself the sight." ~ Albert Schweitzer
C/F temp conversion
Avatar for Marcom1234
Aug 27, 2021 5:42 PM CST
Thread OP

Weedwhacker said:One other issue that you might want to consider is light transmission - the clear 6-mil film is 91% (per layer), while the heavy woven "film" is 82%. I'm sure it would somewhat depend on what sort of plants you want to grow, whether that is sufficient for good growth - but it would be worth doing a bit of research on that (if you haven't already) Smiling


Well, you guys are certainly saving me money…. Lol 😀
Avatar for BillAstell
Aug 28, 2021 5:51 AM CST

I would not use clear plastic at all. There is no advantage accept being able to see through it. It is way too hot inside a clear plastic greenhouse unless you use fans and even then the UV can burn many plants.
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Aug 28, 2021 8:06 AM CST
Name: Sandy B.
Ford River Twp, Michigan UP (Zone 4b)
(Zone 4b-maybe 5a)
Charter ATP Member Bee Lover Butterflies Birds I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Seed Starter Vegetable Grower Greenhouse Region: United States of America Region: Michigan Enjoys or suffers cold winters
At least somewhat still on topic here - I've always wondered if "UV protected" plastic film still allows the UV light through? or does it actually block it? (It "seems" to me that if it's going to protect the plastic from early deterioration from the UV light, then it has to be blocking it but Confused )
“Think occasionally of the suffering of which you spare yourself the sight." ~ Albert Schweitzer
C/F temp conversion
Avatar for Plantlvr2
Aug 28, 2021 8:38 AM CST
Idaho
karmahappytoes said:Marcom1234, Amazon had a 10 ml greenhouse plastic that was supposed to be clear but
when we got it, it was white and let me tell you well worth the price. For years we have used
the 6ml plastic from the big box store and we found with the difference in Climate Change we
were changing it out almost every other year. No savings at all. We put up out kit greenhouse
if my memory serves me 2014, purchased at Sears.


Thumb of 2021-08-27/karmahappytoes/857bce
Inside the kit greenhouse.

Thumb of 2021-08-27/karmahappytoes/faab08
Here is the frame of the Brug House, reinforced corners in metal.



Thumb of 2021-08-27/karmahappytoes/440a6c
Measured out the plastic before putting it up.

Thumb of 2021-08-27/karmahappytoes/a6bc88
Wrapped the plastic around the wall and had enough to put
on the top.

Best of luck on your new greenhouse.



Hi there.I am so glad you posted here. I am constructing a PVC room in my garage to use for seed starting and over wintering plants.My garage does not get colder than 40 degrees and I am going to add supplemental heat. I could not find any information on any made with PVC. I did not know what to do for a door. I am happy to see you made a door out of PVC. Can you please post a picture of the door and tell me how you connected it to the PVC frame? Thank You!
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Aug 28, 2021 9:03 AM CST
Name: Jim
NE PA (Zone 6b)
Greenhouse Vegetable Grower Fruit Growers Seed Starter Canning and food preservation Region: Pennsylvania
Weedwhacker said:At least somewhat still on topic here - I've always wondered if "UV protected" plastic film still allows the UV light through? or does it actually block it? (It "seems" to me that if it's going to protect the plastic from early deterioration from the UV light, then it has to be blocking it but Confused )


The way most modern greenhouse plastic is made makes it resistant to UV light for the protection of the plants in the greenhouse and to help the plastic itself last longer while being exposed to sunlight. Contrary to popular belief, plants do not need ultraviolet (UV) light to grow. Plants require blue and red light, which are not a part of the UV color spectrum.
My PA Food Forest Thread at NGA
“The one who plants trees, knowing that he will never sit in their shade, has at least started to understand the meaning of life.” (Rabindranath Tagore)
Last edited by MoonShadows Aug 28, 2021 9:09 AM Icon for preview
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Aug 28, 2021 9:06 AM CST
Name: Jim
NE PA (Zone 6b)
Greenhouse Vegetable Grower Fruit Growers Seed Starter Canning and food preservation Region: Pennsylvania
Plantlvr2 said:

Hi there.I am so glad you posted here. I am constructing a PVC room in my garage to use for seed starting and over wintering plants.My garage does not get colder than 40 degrees and I am going to add supplemental heat. I could not find any information on any made with PVC. I did not know what to do for a door. I am happy to see you made a door out of PVC. Can you please post a picture of the door and tell me how you connected it to the PVC frame? Thank You!


Very important to remember! If you are using greenhouse film, the product should not come into contact with PVC piping as this will degrade the product and void any warranty of the film. Batten tape, felt, or some other material should be used to keep the film from coming in contact with the pvc piping.
My PA Food Forest Thread at NGA
“The one who plants trees, knowing that he will never sit in their shade, has at least started to understand the meaning of life.” (Rabindranath Tagore)
Avatar for Marcom1234
Aug 28, 2021 2:52 PM CST
Thread OP

MoonShadows said:

The way most modern greenhouse plastic is made makes it resistant to UV light for the protection of the plants in the greenhouse and to help the plastic itself last longer while being exposed to sunlight. Contrary to popular belief, plants do not need ultraviolet (UV) light to grow. Plants require blue and red light, which are not a part of the UV color spectrum.


With all due respect, lots of plants DO use UV light…. Is it required for survival? No…
Is it beneficial still? Yes it is. Maybe not every plant but lots still use it.


Thumb of 2021-08-28/Marcom1234/d99849
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Aug 28, 2021 4:27 PM CST
Name: Jim
NE PA (Zone 6b)
Greenhouse Vegetable Grower Fruit Growers Seed Starter Canning and food preservation Region: Pennsylvania
But, it is not needed.
My PA Food Forest Thread at NGA
“The one who plants trees, knowing that he will never sit in their shade, has at least started to understand the meaning of life.” (Rabindranath Tagore)
Avatar for Marcom1234
Aug 28, 2021 5:02 PM CST
Thread OP

MoonShadows said:But, it is not needed.


I guess "need" is subjective.

UV helps create antioxidants, I *want* as many antioxidants in my tomato's as possible.

Will lack of UV mean my tomatoes will have zero antioxidants? Probably not. But will they be as rich in them as they could be? No. 🤷‍♂️
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Aug 28, 2021 5:42 PM CST
Name: Jim
NE PA (Zone 6b)
Greenhouse Vegetable Grower Fruit Growers Seed Starter Canning and food preservation Region: Pennsylvania
Marcom1234 said:

I guess "need" is subjective.

UV helps create antioxidants, I *want* as many antioxidants in my tomato's as possible.

Will lack of UV mean my tomatoes will have zero antioxidants? Probably not. But will they be as rich in them as they could be? No. 🤷‍♂️


Then, I suggest you design your greenhouse in a way that you feel you are getting the best nutrition as possible. Smiling
My PA Food Forest Thread at NGA
“The one who plants trees, knowing that he will never sit in their shade, has at least started to understand the meaning of life.” (Rabindranath Tagore)
Image
Aug 28, 2021 7:33 PM CST
Name: Sandy B.
Ford River Twp, Michigan UP (Zone 4b)
(Zone 4b-maybe 5a)
Charter ATP Member Bee Lover Butterflies Birds I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Seed Starter Vegetable Grower Greenhouse Region: United States of America Region: Michigan Enjoys or suffers cold winters
Hmm - I never expected the UV thing to be so controversial Blinking

At any rate - Jim @Moonshadows - am I understanding you correctly, that the "UV protected" means that UV light is actually blocked? (this is just a curiosity thing for me, my plants certainly seem happy enough with whatever sort of light they are getting through the GH film...)

Also - the only way I consider my tomato plants to look different than when they were grown outdoors is that they don't get diseased halfway through the season (I've never nailed down whether from blight or some sort of wilt or whatever, but dead way too early when grown outdoors).
“Think occasionally of the suffering of which you spare yourself the sight." ~ Albert Schweitzer
C/F temp conversion
Avatar for karmahappytoes
Aug 28, 2021 8:25 PM CST
PNW/SW WA State (Zone 8b)
Plantlvr2, so sorry for the delay. My husband said they are plumbing brackets to hang pipes.
I can't get a clear shot, so I hope this helps. They are metal and you will need to drill a hole in
one pipe and the door frame goes into the other loop.

Thumb of 2021-08-29/karmahappytoes/597ea6

Let me know if you need more photos and I'll take the plastic off the frame
on Sunday.

Here is the valve, we used 3 for the small door.
https://www.lowes.com/pd/AMERI...
Last edited by karmahappytoes Aug 28, 2021 8:42 PM Icon for preview
Avatar for Plantlvr2
Aug 28, 2021 10:07 PM CST
Idaho
karmahappytoes said:Plantlvr2, so sorry for the delay. My husband said they are plumbing brackets to hang pipes.
I can't get a clear shot, so I hope this helps. They are metal and you will need to drill a hole in
one pipe and the door frame goes into the other loop.

Thumb of 2021-08-29/karmahappytoes/597ea6

Let me know if you need more photos and I'll take the plastic off the frame
on Sunday.

Here is the valve, we used 3 for the small door.
https://www.lowes.com/pd/AMERI...
Thank You! karmahappytoes! I think I can see the metal piece has a bolt that goes through the pvc door frame and the round circle part goes around the door pvc. Is that correct? Also how many of these did you use for your pvc door? I really do not want you to disassemble the plastic on the door. Thank You for the link. You have no idea how much this helped me.
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Aug 29, 2021 4:40 AM CST
Name: Denise Fox
Hamilton, IA (Zone 5b)
Region: Iowa
DaisyI said:My greenhouse is 5-wall super polycarbonate. Most of my greenhouse has permanent plants but I do save a shelf for seed starting. I've never had a problem.


Hello Daisy, I do have a question about your the color clarity of the polycarbonate that you used on your greenhouse, have you noticed any change, like yellowing and if so does it make a difference?
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Aug 29, 2021 5:48 AM CST
Name: Jim
NE PA (Zone 6b)
Greenhouse Vegetable Grower Fruit Growers Seed Starter Canning and food preservation Region: Pennsylvania
Weedwhacker said:Hmm - I never expected the UV thing to be so controversial Blinking

At any rate - Jim @Moonshadows - am I understanding you correctly, that the "UV protected" means that UV light is actually blocked? (this is just a curiosity thing for me, my plants certainly seem happy enough with whatever sort of light they are getting through the GH film...)

Also - the only way I consider my tomato plants to look different than when they were grown outdoors is that they don't get diseased halfway through the season (I've never nailed down whether from blight or some sort of wilt or whatever, but dead way too early when grown outdoors).


I agree with you about greenhouse tomato plants; mine also tend to do so much better with little, if any, disease as opposed to my outdoor tomato plants. I am not sure why this is, but I know I can control my indoor environment while I can't control my outdoor environment, i.e. light energy, or lack of it, rain, moisture, humidity, soil, etc.

"UV protected" (to my understanding) is not something they apply to the material, but is inherent in the material itself.

Clear stabilized polyethylene film (which is really not clear) is resistant to UV deterioration and also blocks/diffuses a portion of UV rays from reaching the interior of a greenhouse. However, even clear windows in your house block a portion of UV rays, so there is nothing magical about greenhouse film and it's UV blocking abilities. Anything you place as a skin over your greenhouse will block some UV radiation to one degree or another, depending on the material and thickness. When considering UV blocking properties of a greenhouse covering, one only needs to be really concerned with it's ability to extend the material's life, not the effect on the plants within the greenhouse. It should also be noted for anyone who thinks UV radiation is necessary for their plant growth that while UV radiation has benefits for plant growth, it can still cause damage to plants, especially UVB...see next paragraph.

As far as UV goes, there are three different UV's. UVA, UVB, and UVC, and explaining/understanding them can be difficult and not easily understood, demanding much more depth than a few posts in a gardening thread. Actually, UV rays are only a portion of the energy or radiation that the sun produces, and sometimes folks get all caught up on the UV portion without knowing or understanding all the "rays (radiation) of energy" the sun produces.

When talking about plant growth and production, the radiation/energy one should concern themselves with is the PAR energy, or Photosynthetically Active Radiation. (You may or may not remember from science class that photosynthesis is the process that converts carbon dioxide and water into sugars.) By the time the sun's energy reaches the surface of the earth, about 43% of its total energy is within the visible or PAR region, while 52% is in the infrared (IR) or heat region and 5% is in the ultraviolet (UV) region Although plants may be both negatively and positively affected by energy in the IR or UV wavelengths, they do not directly use light in these wavelengths for photosynthesis. They use the PAR energy.

For plants PAR is how they "see" light. For us humans, we "see" light in terms of lumens. Our eyes and plants absorb energy within a relatively narrow range of the electromagnetic spectrum. Humans and plants both "see" light with wavelengths between 400 nm (violet) and 700 nm (red). For us this range of wavelengths is called the visible light spectrum and the unit of measure for the light we see is lumens. For plants, this region of light is called photosynthetically active radiation (PAR). It is the only portion of the suns energy that plants really need to create photosynthesis.

Probably more than you were asking about (or asking for), but if anything, a small taste of how complicated the energy/radiation/"light" coming from the sun is.

Today's modern greenhouse covering materials, both residential and commercial, are the result of many years of experimentation and science, and are the best we have at this point for producing the best greenhouse plants when it comes to the combination of physical protection/material strength and durability/ and energy (light) transmission. Choosing one is a matter of "taste", climatic conditions, budget, and purpose for greenhouse.
My PA Food Forest Thread at NGA
“The one who plants trees, knowing that he will never sit in their shade, has at least started to understand the meaning of life.” (Rabindranath Tagore)
Avatar for karmahappytoes
Aug 29, 2021 8:06 AM CST
PNW/SW WA State (Zone 8b)
Plantlvr2, Just 3 for the small door. It's just wide enough to fit a rain barrel through
but taller folks don't care for the small door. The Rainbarrel helps keep the heat if
we loose power. We also use a LED light inside as we do tarp this before it gets
to cool. I love this house this summer as it stayed cooler than the outside when
we had the extreme heat. I have a couple B. Sanguine in there that loved the cool
temps. I will tell you the 6ml really took a beating in the heat and would crack and
break after a couple years. We are on the second year of the 10ml and it still looks
great.
Image
Aug 30, 2021 11:27 AM CST
Name: Daisy I
Reno, Nv (Zone 6b)
Not all who wander are lost
Garden Sages Plant Identifier
FinalFrontier said:

Hello Daisy, I do have a question about your the color clarity of the polycarbonate that you used on your greenhouse, have you noticed any change, like yellowing and if so does it make a difference?


No, its just as clear as it was the day it was installed 8 years ago. My previous greenhouse, made from the same stuff, was still clear after 20 years. Once a year or so, I use Outdoor Windex Window Cleaner on the outside. The plastic is 16 mm thick (not solid, it has air bevels) but light transmission is still 75% - I still need shade cloth.

Trapping a gas, even air, between layers of glazing is a good insulator in itself. The R-factor is 2.5, about the same as a window in a house.
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and proclaiming...."WOW What a Ride!!" -Mark Frost

President: Orchid Society of Northern Nevada
Webmaster: osnnv.org

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