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Sep 22, 2021 4:21 PM CST
Name: Gigi
Florida (Zone 9a)
Adeniums Roses Plumerias Orchids Miniature Gardening Hibiscus
Region: Florida Container Gardener Garden Photography Cactus and Succulents Butterflies Garden Ideas: Level 1
@Wildbloomers great tutorial and clear illustrations for those able and willing to hand pollinate their desert roses. I copied your tutorial here so it will not get buried with all the comments. I tip my hat to you.

https://garden.org/thread/view...
Wildbloomers said:@Kaktus. Don't give up on hand pollination. The reason for failure can be many things. Maybe the plant is not receptive at the time, two or three days from opening usually works. Maybe the pollen is too old, it should be almost granular but slightly sticky. Maybe the pollen was not applied to the proper part of the stigma (the main reason for failure).
Possibly small insects have eaten the pollen and stigmatic surface after the pollination. I once took a flower that I accidentally knocked off a plant and opened it to get the pollen only to find tiny worms crawling in the pollen.
These pics may be helpful.

Standard flower
Thumb of 2021-09-22/Wildbloomers/72ee58

Flower with two petals and corresponding tube removed. The fuzzy pink parts are the anther tails and serve no purpose in hand pollination. (Interesting side note, in some multi-petaled plants these have developed into petals so when you open the flower they will be missing). The fuzzy white cone with the slits in it contains and protects the pollen and the stigma. The pollinators take pollen from the top slits and deposit it into the bottom ones.
Thumb of 2021-09-22/Wildbloomers/791c0d

In this picture I have removed three of the anther tails down to the top of the stigma (which is not receptive so any pollen that falls on it doesn't pollinate the plant, nature's way of forcing outcrossing). The toothpick is touching the area that has the pollen, the top half of the fuzzy white cone.
Thumb of 2021-09-22/Wildbloomers/748d03

In this pic you can see that the pollen is brown and crumbly looking, probably no longer viable. It should be greenish yellow to straw brown in color. The toothpick points to the area that houses the receptive portion of the stigma.
Thumb of 2021-09-22/Wildbloomers/899b32


Here I have pushed the toothpick through one slit and out another. This is where our friendly bees put the pollen.
Thumb of 2021-09-22/Wildbloomers/c34ede

Here I have removed a section of the cone to expose the stigma (the shiny part) and the tube leading down to the ovary
Thumb of 2021-09-22/Wildbloomers/7a1c77

The toothpick is pointing to the receptive part of the stigma, the bottom side not the top. Imagine our little insect looking for nectar puts it's face or feet or proboscis into the closest slit to the flower face and finds none. Not to be deterred our intrepid creature, now sullied with pollen pushes on to the deeper slit and when it leaves/backs out it pulls its appendages back through the deeper slit thereby depositing pollen on the underside of the stigma and, assuming the plants are compatible, pollination has been accomplished. Kaktus, be the bee!
Thumb of 2021-09-22/Wildbloomers/f5c326

©by Gigi Plumeria "Gardening is my favorite pastime. I grow whatever plant that catches my attention." Plumeria Photos http://www.flickr.com/groups/c... plant photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/g...
Last edited by GigiPlumeria Sep 22, 2021 4:24 PM Icon for preview
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Sep 22, 2021 5:51 PM CST
Name: Gigi
Florida (Zone 9a)
Adeniums Roses Plumerias Orchids Miniature Gardening Hibiscus
Region: Florida Container Gardener Garden Photography Cactus and Succulents Butterflies Garden Ideas: Level 1
@Wildbloomers, would love to see updates of your yellow and peach seedpod on this thread too.
©by Gigi Plumeria "Gardening is my favorite pastime. I grow whatever plant that catches my attention." Plumeria Photos http://www.flickr.com/groups/c... plant photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/g...
Avatar for Aashna
Sep 22, 2021 8:25 PM CST
India (TN) (Zone 13b)
Adeniums
Well done Gigi. Very informative post regarding pollination. Thank you Wildbloomers Smiling
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Sep 23, 2021 4:22 AM CST
Name: TJOE
Indonesia
Adeniums Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Keeper of Koi Fruit Growers Container Gardener Composter
Cactus and Succulents Bee Lover Beekeeper Enjoys or suffers hot summers
Yeahhh... Finally.. Hurray! it is the THE DAY for hand pollination... Taken 6 plants with flowers, I will cross pollinate them.. start to cut the first and second Flowers..
Thumb of 2021-09-23/Kaktus/0c5d81
Thumb of 2021-09-23/Kaktus/9666e6
Confused Oops.. they are different from the book Crying
The 3rd flower, the shape is right, but no pollen Blinking Sad take a side..
Cut the 4th and 5th flower, finally can see some pollen in there, use a toothpick to take the pollens and put them in the 3,4,5
The wind is quite strong, I have a bad eyesight, the hand also shaking, not very sure on what I did to the flowers Grin
Cut the 6th flower, the shape is right but no pollen again, just pretend that it has pollen and do the same magic toothpick on it, the same applied on the first 2 flowers, just stick the toothpick inside them.. *Blush* Whistling

I think I have created enough damages for today.. hopefully I can see some seedpod in early October.
And I believe I have made my statement clear to them : " please produce some double petalled seedpod for me, or I will repeat this process until I get what I want" Rolling on the floor laughing
If they look healthy, do nothing
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Sep 23, 2021 5:43 AM CST
Name: Gigi
Florida (Zone 9a)
Adeniums Roses Plumerias Orchids Miniature Gardening Hibiscus
Region: Florida Container Gardener Garden Photography Cactus and Succulents Butterflies Garden Ideas: Level 1
Nice try TJoe! Keep us posted!
©by Gigi Plumeria "Gardening is my favorite pastime. I grow whatever plant that catches my attention." Plumeria Photos http://www.flickr.com/groups/c... plant photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/g...
Avatar for Aashna
Sep 23, 2021 6:46 AM CST
India (TN) (Zone 13b)
Adeniums
Without cross pollination , is the hand pollination succesful ? Or adeniums can't pollinate themselves
Avatar for Aashna
Sep 23, 2021 6:47 AM CST
India (TN) (Zone 13b)
Adeniums
Well tried kaktus Smiling
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Oct 3, 2021 5:35 PM CST
Name: TJOE
Indonesia
Adeniums Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Keeper of Koi Fruit Growers Container Gardener Composter
Cactus and Succulents Bee Lover Beekeeper Enjoys or suffers hot summers
Not sure if these are what we expect to see, 2 of them have these, the others dries out already
The first one has 3 section, the 2nd one is one pair Crossing Fingers!
Thumb of 2021-10-03/Kaktus/6d84ba
Thumb of 2021-10-03/Kaktus/764612

And this deformed one should be an easy target for hand pollination, but there is no pollen there
Thumb of 2021-10-03/Kaktus/27f59e
If they look healthy, do nothing
Last edited by Kaktus Oct 3, 2021 5:37 PM Icon for preview
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Oct 4, 2021 8:05 PM CST
Name: Gigi
Florida (Zone 9a)
Adeniums Roses Plumerias Orchids Miniature Gardening Hibiscus
Region: Florida Container Gardener Garden Photography Cactus and Succulents Butterflies Garden Ideas: Level 1
Hope your seedpods will grow. Hurray!

I have some that size with no plans of growing. Next thing I know they are gone and just fall off.
©by Gigi Plumeria "Gardening is my favorite pastime. I grow whatever plant that catches my attention." Plumeria Photos http://www.flickr.com/groups/c... plant photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/g...
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Oct 15, 2021 11:09 PM CST
Name: Gigi
Florida (Zone 9a)
Adeniums Roses Plumerias Orchids Miniature Gardening Hibiscus
Region: Florida Container Gardener Garden Photography Cactus and Succulents Butterflies Garden Ideas: Level 1
@Kaktus any update on your seedpods from your pollination?
©by Gigi Plumeria "Gardening is my favorite pastime. I grow whatever plant that catches my attention." Plumeria Photos http://www.flickr.com/groups/c... plant photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/g...
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Oct 15, 2021 11:10 PM CST
Name: Gigi
Florida (Zone 9a)
Adeniums Roses Plumerias Orchids Miniature Gardening Hibiscus
Region: Florida Container Gardener Garden Photography Cactus and Succulents Butterflies Garden Ideas: Level 1
Another great article I read online.

https://adeniumlove.wordpress....
©by Gigi Plumeria "Gardening is my favorite pastime. I grow whatever plant that catches my attention." Plumeria Photos http://www.flickr.com/groups/c... plant photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/g...
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Oct 16, 2021 12:58 AM CST
Name: TJOE
Indonesia
Adeniums Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Keeper of Koi Fruit Growers Container Gardener Composter
Cactus and Succulents Bee Lover Beekeeper Enjoys or suffers hot summers
GigiPlumeria said:@Kaktus any update on your seedpods from your pollination?


No Seedpods Glare
Will try again some other time.. Smiling
If they look healthy, do nothing
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Nov 14, 2021 3:38 PM CST
Name: Gigi
Florida (Zone 9a)
Adeniums Roses Plumerias Orchids Miniature Gardening Hibiscus
Region: Florida Container Gardener Garden Photography Cactus and Succulents Butterflies Garden Ideas: Level 1
This came from this chat:

The thread "grafting desert rose plant to obtain a three petal bloom" in Adeniums forum

Wildbloomers said:@GigiPlumeria and @RobertFJameson.
Sorry that I didn't get to this sooner, but too much going on.
As the consensus above indicates, multi petaled adenium are not produced by grafting, only reproduced. They are a genetic mutation and aren't produced by mechanical manipulation. The first attached article is quite old but does indicate how one could develop their own line of multi petaled flowers from seed. Essentially you take a single flower with color, shape, size that you like and use it as the seed parent. Then take a multi petal flower that has a good shape and use it as the pollen parent. The resulting progeny (according to the article) will be ~15% multi petaled the color of the seed parent, ~50% multi petaled the color of the pollen parent and the rest single petaled. If you then cross the 15% with its multi petaled siblings or parent you can start getting large numbers of multi petals the color of the original single petaled flower. Note that this takes a while because you have to grow the plants to blooming size and sexual maturity. This is why grafting is so popular.

https://www.siamadenium.com/ar...

The second article is a study of variability/heritability in Adenium and explains why this is a good method to produce the results that commercial hybridizers (not grafters) are looking for. It's a little technical but worth reading.

https://www.researchgate.net/p...


Wildbloomers said:

@GigiPlumeria. Of course you can re-post the info. Also, another tip for you is that the flower needs to be open a day or two before attempting to hand pollinate. It seems that either the pollen isn't ripe or the ovary isn't receptive when the flower first opens. At least that's how it appears to me.
And thanks for the nut prizes! Thank You!
©by Gigi Plumeria "Gardening is my favorite pastime. I grow whatever plant that catches my attention." Plumeria Photos http://www.flickr.com/groups/c... plant photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/g...
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Nov 17, 2021 8:55 AM CST
Central Florida (Zone 10a)
@Kaktus. This is the first time that I saw this thread, maybe this will help.
Above you said,

"Confused Oops.. they are different from the book Crying
The 3rd flower, the shape is right, but no pollen Blinking Sad take a side.."

The pictures of your dissected flowers show flowers that developed extra petals from/instead of the anther tails. Flowers like that often don't produce pollen. However the stigma is usually normal and can be receptive to pollen from another plant. Look for anther tails on your multi petal flowers. The ones with anther tails usually have pollen and will carry the multi petal trait.

I just went outside and cut away some petals to show the anther tails.
Thumb of 2021-11-17/Wildbloomers/f2a22c

And indeed there was what appears to be viable pollen so I "selfed" this flower. It was an older flower but the pollen still looks promising. Some plants are self infertile but I'll hope for the best.
Thumb of 2021-11-17/Wildbloomers/157246
Be kind, we all struggle sometimes.
Last edited by Wildbloomers Nov 17, 2021 10:22 AM Icon for preview
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Nov 17, 2021 2:06 PM CST
Name: TJOE
Indonesia
Adeniums Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Keeper of Koi Fruit Growers Container Gardener Composter
Cactus and Succulents Bee Lover Beekeeper Enjoys or suffers hot summers
Wildbloomers said:

The pictures of your dissected flowers show flowers that developed extra petals from/instead of the anther tails. Flowers like that often don't produce pollen. However the stigma is usually normal and can be receptive to pollen from another plant. Look for anther tails on your multi petal flowers. The ones with anther tails usually have pollen and will carry the multi petal trait.


Thanks a lot for this information, I think that is the missing master piece. I sure will try again, when the weather permit. Nowadays too much rain and very less flower. Thank again for the info I tip my hat to you.
If they look healthy, do nothing
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Jan 17, 2022 10:52 AM CST
Name: Gigi
Florida (Zone 9a)
Adeniums Roses Plumerias Orchids Miniature Gardening Hibiscus
Region: Florida Container Gardener Garden Photography Cactus and Succulents Butterflies Garden Ideas: Level 1
@Aeonium2003, this is a good chat. I am just not patient and have no time yet but when I take a time off in spring, I will try it.
©by Gigi Plumeria "Gardening is my favorite pastime. I grow whatever plant that catches my attention." Plumeria Photos http://www.flickr.com/groups/c... plant photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/g...
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Apr 1, 2022 10:40 PM CST
Name: Gigi
Florida (Zone 9a)
Adeniums Roses Plumerias Orchids Miniature Gardening Hibiscus
Region: Florida Container Gardener Garden Photography Cactus and Succulents Butterflies Garden Ideas: Level 1
@kaktus or @wildbloomers @2ManyPlants any updates on your hand pollinations? Did you get new seedpods? No success for me so I stopped doing it.

I just ended up with mutilated blooms that eventually wilted, turned brown and fell with no seedpods to show. Hilarious!
©by Gigi Plumeria "Gardening is my favorite pastime. I grow whatever plant that catches my attention." Plumeria Photos http://www.flickr.com/groups/c... plant photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/g...
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Apr 2, 2022 1:58 AM CST
Name: TJOE
Indonesia
Adeniums Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Keeper of Koi Fruit Growers Container Gardener Composter
Cactus and Succulents Bee Lover Beekeeper Enjoys or suffers hot summers
The hand pollination also failed at my side, the 2 seedpods that I get is a self pollination seedpods
If they look healthy, do nothing
Image
Apr 6, 2022 3:03 PM CST
Central Florida (Zone 10a)
GigiPlumeria said: @kaktus or @wildbloomers @2ManyPlants any updates on your hand pollinations? Did you get new seedpods? No success for me so I stopped doing it.

I just ended up with mutilated blooms that eventually wilted, turned brown and fell with no seedpods to show. Hilarious!

Yes I got seedpods and after the requisite 60 days they still showed no signs of maturing. Eventually after more than 90 days the seedpod split so even though it was still fleshy, not drying out, I harvested 60 seeds. I set them out in a covered tray as is my norm and had dismal results. Only three germinated. In retrospect maybe I should have waited to sow the seeds until after the temps got higher. They got about 3/4" tall and made their first true leaves and then just stopped. It's been a couple of months now and they are still the same size and haven't made any progress. I'm still hopeful! FYI this is in response to the hand pollination of the multi petaled peach (no pollen) with the pollen from a multi petaled yellow.
Be kind, we all struggle sometimes.
Image
Apr 6, 2022 7:57 PM CST
Name: Gigi
Florida (Zone 9a)
Adeniums Roses Plumerias Orchids Miniature Gardening Hibiscus
Region: Florida Container Gardener Garden Photography Cactus and Succulents Butterflies Garden Ideas: Level 1
Wildbloomers said: Yes I got seedpods and after the requisite 60 days they still showed no signs of maturing. Eventually after more than 90 days the seedpod split so even though it was still fleshy, not drying out, I harvested 60 seeds. I set them out in a covered tray as is my norm and had dismal results. Only three germinated. In retrospect maybe I should have waited to sow the seeds until after the temps got higher. They got about 3/4" tall and made their first true leaves and then just stopped. It's been a couple of months now and they are still the same size and haven't made any progress. I'm still hopeful! FYI this is in response to the hand pollination of the multi petaled peach (no pollen) with the pollen from a multi petaled yellow.


My natural formed seedpods from
Xmas Santa (similar look to your fighter fish), also had a dismal germination rate. They ripened winter time but then started to turn brown. The seeds didn't look like they had a chance to dry up or plump up. I have 5 seedlings and the ones I reserved and planted this spring had the same poor germination rate.

On one hand, I am disappointed but on the other hand I feel somewhat relieved Hilarious! I don't know what I will do with another 100 seedlings.
©by Gigi Plumeria "Gardening is my favorite pastime. I grow whatever plant that catches my attention." Plumeria Photos http://www.flickr.com/groups/c... plant photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/g...
Last edited by GigiPlumeria Apr 6, 2022 7:59 PM Icon for preview

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