Daylilies forum→What is the worst flaw of your favorite stud plant?

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Medford, WI (Zone 3b)
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Strigeidida
Oct 28, 2021 11:13 AM CST
As Brian Reeder pointed out, all daylilies have flaws, no matter what we think of them. So I'm going to ask what's the most serious flaw your favorite breeding plants possess, and what merits do they have that make you want to breed with them anyway?

Conversely, what single quality would make you reject a potential breeding plant? What's your game changer?
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
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Seedfork
Oct 28, 2021 11:37 AM CST
I do wish I could answer your question, but I have yet to even discover my favorite breeding plant. I am still in the process of trying to find out which plants possess the ability to pass down the traits I am looking for on a fairly consistent basis. I think I would reject any breeder plant that tends to pass along as a dominate trait a bad flaw like rot.
Name: Fred Manning
Lillian Alabama

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spunky1
Oct 28, 2021 1:39 PM CST
Lillian's Alabama Stud (Manning, 2018) (The gamechanger for my pattern program)
height 34 in, bloom 6 in, Rebloom, Evergreen, Diploid, 18 buds, 4 branches, Tan with a multicolored eyezone on petals and sepals over a green throat, fertile both ways, but not the easy pod parent I would like. (Lillian`s Legends and Lies X Cosmic Aftershock) VERY DOMINATE POLLEN. CAN'T SAY ENOUGH ABOUT THE POLLEN FROM "LILLIAN'S ALABAMA STUD", IT HAS PRODUCED SOME OF THE MOST INTERESTING PATTERNS FROM LARGE TO SMALL SEEDLINGS I HAVE SEEN, POLLEN PARENT OF "LILLIAN'S RICHTER SCALE 2020" "LILLIAN'S SHIMMY AND SHAKE 2019" "LILLIAN'S WICKED WEB 2019" "LILLIAN'S WEB OF LIES 2020".
Thumb of 2021-10-28/spunky1/888de5
What I do not like, it has not been pod fertile for me. I do like that all of its offspring are very pod and pollen fertile
The first thing that makes me not use one is the flower it self, If I do not like the flower I will not use it.

Name: Justine
Maryville, Tennessee (Zone 7a)
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Hembrain
Oct 28, 2021 6:05 PM CST
For me "rebloom is the future!" and I consider no-rebloom to be a flaw. If a daylily has wonderful branching or soaring color, I may use it anyway, but I'm always hoping that there are latent rebloom genes lurking in there.

Panic in Detroit has wide branching but no rebloom. Here it is in pot culture in semi-shade:


Here's Royal Girls. LOVE the color but it's not recurrent.
Thumb of 2021-10-29/Hembrain/66603b

At the end of life, our questions are very simple: Did I live fully? Did I love well?
--Jack Kornfield
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
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Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Region: Alabama
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Seedfork
Oct 28, 2021 6:53 PM CST
I show Panic In Detroit bloomed for me in May back in 2018, and then had rebloom in August.
Name: Tim
West Chicago, IL (Zone 5a)
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Lyshack
Oct 28, 2021 8:24 PM CST
You would hate it here, Justine. Smiling

Probably 75% or more of the daylilies listed as reblooming or recurrent don't rebloom here.

For me, Bud Building is my new collectible trait. It seems to be my best bet to get a large, fancy daylily to bloom into September, other than just VL bloomers. Right now, I'm hooked on Party Every Day (Davisson) and Keepsake Rosie (Ginny Pearce). Party starts the second week of July and nlooms until it's keeping the VL's company most years. Rosie starts earlier, but has gotten the bud building scapes going several years, producing blooms over seven weeks wtihout rebloom. And I was gifted a bud builder that bloomed for me the first time this year; Pee Wee's Big Adventure. I kind of don't want to judge it on the first full year in the garden, but I want to say it pushed up blooms for almost 10 weeks. All three of those seem to be awesome bud builders for my region, and I'm using them to try to create more.

I don't know that I've ever been disappointed with a daylily. Some don't do well for me, but I assume that's just my location or how I do my gardening. I've given away some plants because they just couldn't make it here, but I don't know that I would call it a flaw with the plant. I'm constantly trying those fancy Evergreens that are supposed to bloom EE, and I know the odds are very slim, but if I ever find one or two that work here, I'll be in business. I can't really blame the plant when I put it in a position where it's not likely to be successful.


Name: Justine
Maryville, Tennessee (Zone 7a)
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Hembrain
Oct 29, 2021 2:24 PM CST
Oh Larry, there's hope! Hurray! So even though it's harder to set a pod in the sun, sounds like I have to move Panic In Detroit into the ground and out in the sun and we will see what happens with rebloom. It may not happen, but it sounds like it might! Would you consider adding that rebloom as a comment in the listing?

Tim, so cold! Crying That's rough. I can see that bud-building would be the ticket. Best wishes with your program. I haven't been terribly impressed with bud-builders here. More bang for the buck with those taller, branchier rebloom scapes.
At the end of life, our questions are very simple: Did I live fully? Did I love well?
--Jack Kornfield
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Daylilies Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Region: Alabama
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Seedfork
Oct 29, 2021 7:07 PM CST
Hembrain,
Have you been able to set a pod on 'Panic In Detroit" in the shade? I will move some of mine to the shade if you have.
Name: Justine
Maryville, Tennessee (Zone 7a)
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Hembrain
Oct 30, 2021 11:38 AM CST
Larry, I haven't had success getting Panic In Detroit to set a pod, even in the semi-shade. Sad And I pollinated every single ever-loving bloom, including the first. To be fair, it does bloom when the temperature is warmer- high 80s, low to mid 90s, later than some other DLs The pollen isn't easy for me but it's viable, so I have crosses with it as pollen parent. What's your experience been? Any luck with the rebloom scapes?

Although it started as a "temporary" arrangement, my potted material has generally set pods so well in the semi-shade that I have been reluctant to put them in the ground in full sun. I'll plant them out anyway as I'm tired of dealing with tree roots and watering so often, and I want to see increase- in pots many of them just sit and sulk, so they may have the same number of fans that they started with a few years ago. So these plants have been on hold, but I have crazy numbers of seeds and seedlings from them. No regrets. It's all interesting. I guess shade cloth is the way to go. There's no shame in using what's available if it helps you reach your goals.
At the end of life, our questions are very simple: Did I live fully? Did I love well?
--Jack Kornfield
Name: Sue
Austria
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Nightlily
Oct 31, 2021 1:09 AM CST
Strigeidida said:As Brian Reeder pointed out, all daylilies have flaws, no matter what we think of them. So I'm going to ask what's the most serious flaw your favorite breeding plants possess, and what merits do they have that make you want to breed with them anyway?

Based on my hybridizing program the most serious flaw is simple to describe: short flowering period. Bud count is not as important because some of my best parents produce instant rebloom kids.

Strigeidida said:Conversely, what single quality would make you reject a potential breeding plant? What's your game changer?

The other way round is not as simple: I use some plants for breeding just because they problably will pass a single trait to their kids, even when they have 'flaws'.
I'm working on season extenders - daylilies that flower in May or in August and September (we have peak bloom in the last week of June here) and to get eyes/edges/ruffles/patterns/stripes/bright colors/big flowers in the mostly pale genetics of the EE and VLA cultivars you can get here I have to freeze pollen at peak bloom.

Some of my favourite father plants have low bud counts/short flowering periods but they have a very special look too, e.g. Undefinable.

[Last edited by Nightlily - Oct 31, 2021 1:12 AM (+)]
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Name: Dianne
Eagle Bay, New York (Zone 3b)
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adknative
Nov 27, 2021 9:02 AM CST
@ Lyshack

"Probably 75% or more of the daylilies listed as reblooming or recurrent don't rebloom here."

Being in zone 3 myself, I relate to reblooming daylilies that just DON'T.

I have to praise 'Moussaka' (listed as midseason with extended bloom and rebloom) ... the ONLY daylily in my garden that was still cranking out flowers into the third week of October! - And that was past the first two frosts (which were later this year than most). It lasted weeks longer than anything else I have and bloomed far later. Not even my 'late season' daylilies bloomed past mid-September, but Moussaka just kept going.

I've started seeds from it this year, already it's very pod-fertile ... of the seeds started, so far I have 90% germination (and the rest may still pop out). I'm hoping to bring both the cold-hardiness and long / extended and late rebloom into the seedlings, then cross those with other varieties to upscale the colours and patterns.

Name: Tim
West Chicago, IL (Zone 5a)
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Lyshack
Nov 27, 2021 9:22 PM CST
Good luck with your seedlings, DJ. I have my fingers crossed for you. I like that this is something you are working on. It seems it's easy to get caught up in the latest hot trend, but I like to think I can dedicate 20-25% of my seedling space to trying to improve June and September color in my garden, and still work on lots of "pretty faces". Keep an eye on the September and October seedling postings, and if you see me post something of interest, let me know. I didn't post much this year, but I did in previous years, and will try to do better next year.

At some point, I'll try to remember to look at my older stats to see what reblooms here in September regularly, but zone 5 isn't zone 3, for sure. Based on this year, if you don't have them, VL Genesta and rebloomers May May and Bitsy seem to be OK with the cold. I also have a NOID that was sold as Purple de Oro, but isn't purple, that didn't slow down with the first frosts.

Sold as Purple de Oro, if you see it somewhere. It went really cold this year. For sure my last bloom in October.
Thumb of 2021-11-28/Lyshack/624060

Ohio (Zone 5a)
Deryll
Nov 29, 2021 11:53 AM CST
Isn't it great that daylilies offer something for everyone! There might be a few exceptions, but generally I like big robust plants
with big robust scapes and huge flowers. I am one who does enjoy instant rebloom, and seem to have several of them, but at
the moment the only one I recall is Lemon Strawberry Twist. This year I had Crimson Sun from Floyd Cove which is supposedly
an evergreen that did exceptionally well with rebloom, but we had perfect weather this year. In the seedling field there were a
bunch that rebloomed, and with the added rainfall, quite a few bud builders... but those depend largely on rainfall! The one thing
I really hate is when the first flower is over 8 inches, and the second one is only 6 inches! By the time you get to the fourth one
they are only around 4 inches. Those leave here really quickly. I struggle with adding better branching and higher bud counts on
the really big flowers here in Ohio. I see these impossible quotes coming out of Florida, and I can't come close!

Unlike most of you, I am happy if they would all stop blooming by the first of August. There is only one of me, and it seems like
the weeds purposely start growing "like weeds" when it gets really hot and humid, and when I am busy canning. As long as they
continue blooming, I am roaming the fields early every morning and wind up soaked from the waist down. Since I can't handle
the heat like I used to, my next favorite thing is extended bloom so I can go back out there to enjoy them last thing in the evening
and have them still looking great. If they all finish blooming early, I can pull all of the scapes all at one time, and be done with it.

I really enjoy the heavily ruffled southern look, but so many of those plants are not happy here, so I tend to cross them with a
really hard dormant so the seedlings might be more cold hardy. The thing with those heavy ruffles or teeth is that they can be
splotchy from either thrip damage, or if they open very late at night and before daylight, there can be water spots. Either way,
that ruins an otherwise gorgeous bloom.

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thrip damage on a ruffled seedling
Name: Dianne
Eagle Bay, New York (Zone 3b)
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adknative
Nov 29, 2021 12:16 PM CST
Lyshack said:Based on this year, if you don't have them, VL Genesta and rebloomers May May and Bitsy seem to be OK with the cold. I also have a NOID that was sold as Purple de Oro, but isn't purple, that didn't slow down with the first frosts.

Sold as Purple de Oro, if you see it somewhere. It went really cold this year. For sure my last bloom in October.

Thumb of 2021-11-28/Lyshack/624060
I do have May May, does not flower past September here in zone 3. And I also have a Purple de Oro (that's not purple), looks a lot like yours but a bit deeper towards red. It stops blooming about the first week of September. But I keep looking and it's great when a surprise like Moussaka shows up. It started blooming for me the 2nd week of July!

Join the Party bloomed into mid-September, too. It started the third week of July, bloomed into mid August, then surprised me with blooms in September.

I am sure there are other late bloomers, just need to keep trying them in colder regions. I will take another look at your suggestions, thank you!

But other comments made in this thread are correct: if you don't like the look (pretty face) does it really matter how late it blooms?
Name: Debra
Nashville, TN (Zone 7a)
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shive1
Dec 4, 2021 11:39 AM CST
What makes a plant a top breeder for me at this point is bud building or instant rebloom. I can't think of any particular trait that would rule out a daylily as a breeder for me. While flowers that open very late annoy me as does bloom splotchiness, I've gotten some great seedlings that don't carry the flaws from those parents. I just make sure to cross them with parents who do not have those traits. Short scapes (anything 24 inches and under) annoy me, but crossing those with taller daylilies usually produces taller kids.
[Last edited by shive1 - Dec 5, 2021 10:25 AM (+)]
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