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Nov 9, 2021 8:29 AM CST
Name: Orion
Boston, MA (Zone 6b)
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OK,
So I have moaned previously that most daylilies have boring green leaves that resemble weeds. I decided to try and fix that in my own garden by purchasing seeds (tetraploid) that I hoped would give me a starting point for variegation breeding.
All 4 siblings (still all less than 1month post germination, so very very early days yet) gave different results.
I got a variegated seedling (yay). Plus an expected green normal one, and an albino destined for death (boo).
But to my shock, I also got a chartreuse one (yay?). Had I not had a real albino I would have assumed it was albino. But when both are compared side-by-side on a black background it is clear the chartreuse one has chloroplasts/chlorophyll (this is why I mentioned the seeds are tetraploid).
My question is then, are there examples of daylilies with chartreuse leaves? Recently I read an old thread where someone did have something similar but thought it was a defect and people were trying to help with many suggestions of amending the soil. Clearly in my case the phenotype is real (so far.... it might change color in the future) and the soil and conditions are identical.
Should I expect it to survive, or die soon after the albino dies (albino is looking bizarrely healthy up until now)? I think it is cool, and would be a great part of my strategy to make daylily leaves more interesting, in my yard. But I am not sure how much hope I should put in its survival.
Anyone have experience with chartreuse seedlings?
Thanks.
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Nov 9, 2021 8:35 AM CST
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Those are variegated. (the stripy one)
Chartreuse is the 'Aurea' mutation I think, where some gene switches on or off which makes a lime green color.


They will not tolerate blaring sun , like lighter shade, and tend to grow slower, but are SUPER pretty .
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Nov 9, 2021 9:19 AM CST
Name: Maurice
Grey County, Ontario (Zone 4b)
Green/white variegation in daylilies is typically a plastid mutation and typically not consistent from growing point to growing point.
Assuming that these were germinated and are growing under lights inside it will be interesting to see their leaves when they have been growing outside for most of a growing season.
If one of the parents is variegated, what pattern(s) do its leaves show?
Maurice
Last edited by admmad Nov 9, 2021 9:27 AM Icon for preview
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Nov 9, 2021 9:42 AM CST
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
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I have always wanted darker green leaves on my plants, but I really admire Orion for his willingness to try for such a lofty goal.
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Nov 9, 2021 10:22 AM CST
Name: Orion
Boston, MA (Zone 6b)
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Thanks for responding.
Yes I did worry about too much sun burning the leaves of my weirdo, but they are currently indoors at a sunny window so much UV is being filtered out by the glass. And the sun is getting weaker with every passing day.
I did hypothesize it might grow slowly if it had fewer chloroplasts to work with. So far that is consistent over all 4 siblings (green is tallest, followed by stripy, then chartreuse, with albino being shortest).
The parent was a variegated (leaves similar to stripy - green/yellow, not green/white) daylily that was selfed, so I figured the seeds would give me something pretty interesting.
Indeed, I had a brief hope of imagining the chartreuse as being a 'kingmaker' making lots of variegated-leaved babies, with whomever it crossed with as it seems to have a double-dose.
But that is just a flight of fancy, and genetics does not work like that, I know.
The first step is just to make sure they survive.
Thanks for the tips about the sunlight. That is reassuring.
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Last edited by plasko20 Nov 9, 2021 11:27 AM Icon for preview
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Nov 9, 2021 12:08 PM CST
Name: Orion
Boston, MA (Zone 6b)
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Seedfork said:I have always wanted darker green leaves on my plants, but I really admire Orion for his willingness to try for such a lofty goal.


In science, some of the best discoveries are made by people who do not know any better. They just try stuff that expert others who are programmed by dogma would consider to be pointless, so never try. There is a lot to be said about pure chance and dumb luck.
All that to say I am still very very naive and do not have enough daylily dogma drummed into me yet. As far as daylilies are concerned, I was born yesterday and am a total newbie. So may be much more open to trying weird stuff with them, like a fool. Shrug!
I honestly do not think my goal is lofty. *Blush* Just trying to fix what I find annoying about these plants. Very few out there seem to be focused on leaves, unfortunately (beyond disease-resistance). So I have to try it myself. See what happens.
But, as for making them a darker green that may just require a little supplement of nitrogen (works on grass)?
Gardening: So exciting I wet my plants!
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Nov 9, 2021 2:52 PM CST
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Name: Char
Vermont (Zone 4b)
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Thumbs up I agree with what you said about being "programed". Love your curiosity and willingness to try.

I posted in this thread The thread "How would you change daylilies? What direction would you take them?" in Daylilies forum last spring about sdlgs that grew from a cross with a yellow/green variegated pod parent. Here's the post separated out....
https://garden.org/thread/view...

The sdlgs grew indoors until placed outside in early May I believe. Then planted in the sdlg bed 2 weeks later. There were 5 stripe variegated, 11 yellow to light green, 25 green planted. (I don't baby sdlgs indoors or out....if you can't make it oh well....) As always with planting from trays to soil, the sdlgs all shed the first leaves and grew new outdoor leaves. The yellow all regrew yellow leaves, vari all vari leaves, green all green leaves. We had a very wet summer and I think a few of the yellows didn't make it. Think 1 vari died too. The 4 vari's I saw were still vari this fall. The yellows turned a light green around Aug. They all were getting full sun mid morning until mid afternoon when lightly shaded then evening light sun. The vari pod parent likes full sun from mid- late morning on. I'll know more come spring when everything starts growing again. It'll be interesting to see if the yellows, which were marked on my map, come back as yellow. I did remake the cross this summer that produced these sdlgs, 79 seeds collected, to see if it will happen again.
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Nov 9, 2021 3:47 PM CST
Name: Orion
Boston, MA (Zone 6b)
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Thank You! @Char
This is exactly the kind of information I was hoping for! You have made me hopeful the weirdo seedling might actually survive. Hurray!
I should have remembered your post, since it was me who started that thread. D'Oh!
My memory thesedays.. Whistling
Gardening: So exciting I wet my plants!
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Nov 9, 2021 6:34 PM CST
Moderator
Name: Char
Vermont (Zone 4b)
Daylilies Forum moderator Garden Ideas: Master Level Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle Region: Vermont
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Hilarious! Wait 'til you get old.....

I think your little guy will be fine under lights. His big test comes when being planted outside. Here's an image of a few rows of them outside after getting their new leaves. A bit strange to see the mixed color rows. Please excuse the weeds... *Blush*

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Feb 7, 2022 2:12 PM CST
Moderator
Name: Char
Vermont (Zone 4b)
Daylilies Forum moderator Garden Ideas: Master Level Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle Region: Vermont
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Checking seedlings this morning made me think of this thread.
How is little weirdo doing? Did it turn green? And the variegated one, still variegated?

I planted the 79 seeds from the repeat the cross 3 weeks ago under lights. So far 67 have sprouted and give this rundown of leaf color...
28 green
28 chartreuse
11 variegated

From another cross, 29 seeds, with the same variegated parent, different pollen parent there are 23 sprouts so far, 7 of them are chartreuse the rest green. No variegated.
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Feb 7, 2022 2:32 PM CST
Name: Orion
Boston, MA (Zone 6b)
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Unfortunately the weirdo chartreuse seedling died, actually a few days before the albino died. Crying
The variegated one is still variegated, though. So not a total loss. That one is quite happy, in a 4.5" cubed pot right now. I am treating it like a king, it wants for nothing. Perhaps one day when it flowers I can self it and have more seedlings to try again for the chartreuse kind.
In related leaf-color news, the Cliffjumper seedlings are still wearing their red stockings. The eldest (and reddest so far) is also in a bigger pot. (Just for reference for others, here is the earlier post this refers to: https://garden.org/thread/view... ).
I am glad to hear about your seedlings, however. I am hopeful that something very nice will come from them. It is a fine co-incidence you post on this thread today, as I was justnow looking at Malja a.k.a. Golden Zebra, and Secured Borders. The former seems impossible to get unless you live in Canada or the UK.
I am glad you are working with leaf-color, Char. More people should. Hurray!
Gardening: So exciting I wet my plants!
Last edited by plasko20 Feb 7, 2022 3:09 PM Icon for preview
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Feb 7, 2022 3:12 PM CST
Name: Robin
Southern Michigan (Zone 6a)
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Thanks for the thread Orion and Char, that's all really cool stuff you're both working on. I look forward to some follow-ups later.
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Feb 7, 2022 6:34 PM CST
Moderator
Name: Char
Vermont (Zone 4b)
Daylilies Forum moderator Garden Ideas: Master Level Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle Region: Vermont
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Oh... that's a bummer about little weirdo. Sad
Great news about the variegated sdlg and red stockings though! I think at this point I'm just really curious to see what these sdlgs will do, especially the ones planted last spring. Crossing Fingers! the little bit of snow cover they had protected them from all the below zero temps last month. If not then hope will be with the new ones.
I agree, there should be more focus on colored foliage. It's a area that is wide open for exploring.
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