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Name: Lorn (Roosterlorn)
S.E Wisconsin (Zone 5b)
Lilies Seed Starter Pollen collector Bee Lover Region: Wisconsin
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Roosterlorn
Jan 18, 2015 6:01 AM CST
That's novel--but I doubt it works the way you think. Green Grin!
Name: Rick R.
Minneapolis, MN, USA zone 4
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Sages The WITWIT Badge Garden Photography Region: Minnesota Hybridizer
Seed Starter Plant Identifier Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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Leftwood
Jan 18, 2015 7:02 PM CST
Rolling on the floor laughing That's so funny.... both of ya!

If I may, Della, your OCD must go crazy with your Spring Pink, if it has multiple stigma lobes, too. Hilarious!
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On rare occasions, I will mix pollen. But I try to use pollens where the results would be (hopefully) discernible to determine likely parentage. Ruth and Hugh Cocker used mixed pollen extensively in their crosses.
----
I've also mixed pollen in attempt to get fertilization of a suitor that would be unlikely to work. Can't say it has ever worked, though. I have some seedlings coming, but I'm not holding my breath.

When I did this, rather than mixing the pollen first and then applying the combination, I first dabbed with one anther, then the other. In hind site, I wonder if I should have used the former method. It would seem more probable that the compatible pollen and the not-so-compatible pollen would work together better because each would be more distributed among the other. Yes?
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers. - Socrates
Name: Lorn (Roosterlorn)
S.E Wisconsin (Zone 5b)
Lilies Seed Starter Pollen collector Bee Lover Region: Wisconsin
Image
Roosterlorn
Jan 18, 2015 9:54 PM CST
Yes, and maybe, assuming one would act as a mentor, then you would want that one to act immediately. I always mix my pollen first with stubborn unknowns--once I've established first that they are, in fact, stubborn. A case in point is a nice, quite non complex seedling I have with all the good qualities except the flowers are a rather anemic, somewhat transparent orange. Last summer I pollenated five flowers with five different pollens and got nothing but chaff. This next summer, I'll do five more, but each of those will contain a repeat of two separate known constants used last year with 4 different other pollens each mixed in. Hopefully, I'll get one or two in the mix to act as a mentor. And, if that doesn't work, I'll more than likely cull it.
Name: Joe
Long Island, NY (Zone 7a)
Lilies Region: New York Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Garden Ideas: Level 1
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Joebass
Jan 19, 2015 2:46 PM CST
I have an interesting tidbit from some of my discussions with the great breeder Johan Mak. He believes that when doing an wide interspecific cross that the offspring will express about 70 percent or more of the pod parents genes.
Name: Lorn (Roosterlorn)
S.E Wisconsin (Zone 5b)
Lilies Seed Starter Pollen collector Bee Lover Region: Wisconsin
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Roosterlorn
Jan 19, 2015 3:45 PM CST
I'd be interested in what directions the 30% from the pollen parent express themselves.
Name: della
hobart, tasmania
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Photo Contest Winner: 2015
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dellac
Jan 19, 2015 9:14 PM CST
Very good question! I'm all ears!

Roosterlorn said:That's novel--but I doubt it works the way you think. Green Grin!


What!? Pollen tubes no go straight down their very own sectors of style and into their very own nice ovary compartment? Crying

Drat. Rolling on the floor laughing

I really let loose this morning and used 5... FIVE! pollens mixed together and dabbed all over. The mismatched numbers gave me some consternation, but I did it. But then, 5 is the next odd number after three... so that gives me some comfort. And while 6 could accommodate three neatly in sets of pairs... I've never really liked the number 6 unless it is composed of two sets of three, as in sepals and petals, rather than three sets of two... as in.... ugh, caterpillar boots. For caterpillar feet. On caterpillar legs. But butterflies are ok. Quite lovely really. Angel

Oh dear... Spring Pink really bothers me with four parts, but five is good. I'd grow it just to look at five-part green ovaries, if I continue to grow it all, because the rest of the plant is rather drear.

Time for my medication.

Name: Connie
Willamette Valley OR (Zone 8a)
Forum moderator Hybridizer Region: Pacific Northwest Lilies Sempervivums Sedums
Pollen collector I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator Charter ATP Member Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier
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pardalinum
Jan 19, 2015 9:21 PM CST

Moderator

Yes Della, determinately time for your meds....
Name: Rick R.
Minneapolis, MN, USA zone 4
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Sages The WITWIT Badge Garden Photography Region: Minnesota Hybridizer
Seed Starter Plant Identifier Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Image
Leftwood
Jan 19, 2015 10:35 PM CST
A most excellent essay of OCD drivel, Della! Rolling on the floor laughing

Ya know, Pard, she would be a stellar participant in another episode of Sherleft Holmes.....
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers. - Socrates
Name: Connie
Willamette Valley OR (Zone 8a)
Forum moderator Hybridizer Region: Pacific Northwest Lilies Sempervivums Sedums
Pollen collector I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator Charter ATP Member Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier
Image
pardalinum
Jan 19, 2015 10:47 PM CST

Moderator

Oh yeah! Hmmmm..... (tapping foot)
Name: della
hobart, tasmania
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Photo Contest Winner: 2015
Image
dellac
Jan 20, 2015 6:13 AM CST
Sherleft Holmes? Blinking
Name: Rick R.
Minneapolis, MN, USA zone 4
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Sages The WITWIT Badge Garden Photography Region: Minnesota Hybridizer
Seed Starter Plant Identifier Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Image
Leftwood
Jan 20, 2015 11:37 AM CST
Yes? (He says, answering to his name.)

Back on Dave's old site (davesgarden. com), we went a little whacko (to put it mildly).
http://davesgarden.com/communi...
http://davesgarden.com/communi...

We manufactured an impromptu story that kinda just grew out of unusual circumstances, and involved an animated Lilium speciosum var. gloriosoides. I was Sherleft Holmes, raydio was Watson, Pard was the evil villain. wallaby1 is JRBugs here on ATP. I suppose if you really wanted to waste 3+ hours of your life reading and trying to make sense out of our crazily twisted pros, you could. It's really not going to make much sense unless you were there, I don't think. There would be constant references to previous posts, so I don't think you could start anywhere in the middle of the thread. It will suffice to say that we (especially me, I venture) had great fun.

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers. - Socrates
[Last edited by Leftwood - Jan 20, 2015 11:37 AM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #769378 (11)
Name: della
hobart, tasmania
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Photo Contest Winner: 2015
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dellac
Jan 22, 2015 5:54 AM CST
Oh! Bravo! I've a classified portfolio of role-playing escapades. Never had so much fun. But I musn't incriminate myself now. :rofl:
Name: Joe
Long Island, NY (Zone 7a)
Lilies Region: New York Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Garden Ideas: Level 1
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Joebass
Jan 22, 2015 10:29 AM CST
Wow Della! The sexy gardener slips through her lilies...... Lol *Blush*
Name: Connie
Willamette Valley OR (Zone 8a)
Forum moderator Hybridizer Region: Pacific Northwest Lilies Sempervivums Sedums
Pollen collector I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator Charter ATP Member Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier
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pardalinum
Jan 22, 2015 12:12 PM CST

Moderator

I was beginning to worry about you, Della. Seems like you were missing a day or so here and I feared you had tripped into a wormhole or somesuch... Well, now you know the "real" crew here Rolling on the floor laughing .
Name: della
hobart, tasmania
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Photo Contest Winner: 2015
Image
dellac
Jan 22, 2015 4:58 PM CST
woaahhhh. ohhh.. haha. Frequently lost in a multiplicity of nefarious identities! Still haven't found the one Joe mentions! I'll keep looking. Hilarious!
Lincoln, NE
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Miniature Gardening Butterflies
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Moby
Feb 1, 2015 10:47 AM CST
dellac said:
The mismatched numbers gave me some consternation, but I did it. But then, 5 is the next odd number after three... so that gives me some comfort. And while 6 could accommodate three neatly in sets of pairs... I've never really liked the number 6 unless it is composed of two sets of three, as in sepals and petals, rather than three sets of two... as in.... ugh, caterpillar boots. For caterpillar feet. On caterpillar legs. But butterflies are ok. Quite lovely really. Angel

Time for my medication.


Oh dearest, della ~ please don't take your medication ever again.
Where are we going, and why am I in this hand-basket?
Name: della
hobart, tasmania
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Photo Contest Winner: 2015
Image
dellac
Feb 1, 2015 3:30 PM CST
Rolling on the floor laughing Smiling
Name: della
hobart, tasmania
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Photo Contest Winner: 2015
Image
dellac
Feb 22, 2015 5:51 AM CST
I found something of interest on the daylily forum, about collecting, freezing and using Hemerocallis pollen:

EdBurton said:I pick anther, and take it pollen side to cotton in tube, I brush off as much pollen as I can get.
Usually it takes all 6 anthers to saturate the top layer of the cotton.
I have been successful using 4 year old pollen stored this way.

If I am using fresh pollen for the day, I keep the anthers after brushing off pollen to freeze as there is always some that doesn't rub off to the cotton.

The tubes are easy to use in the yard.
Select pollen to use for the day, remove from freezer, let sit for 10 - 15 minutes, take tubes out to garden and use on whatever is desired, then throw back in freezer.

Eventually the fluid from the stigma over time will make pollen in tube useless, but that is after making dozens of
attempts setting pods.
You will be able to maximize pollen as you get familiar using the pollen from tubes.

This is a picture of the centrifuge tubes stuffed with pollen, tubes are 1.5 mil, cheapest I could find on the web.
I take a piece of masking tape and wrap it around tube, I will write down the ID of pollen plant on tape.

Thumb of 2014-06-29/EdBurton/7323e1



From those with experience, could it be possible that lily pollen would still be viable after multiple freezings and thawings? I just assumed it would rapidly spoil after one defrosting, but that's based on chicken legs rather than any experience or knowledge of pollen viability.

EdBurton also related experience having success posting pollen during winter, while summer temperatures destroyed viability. Seems transferable to lily pollen too, for those that try. If frozen pollen can be sent during winter then refrozen by the recipient until summer, then makes swapping a more successful option for hybridists. Wanting to swap pollen between northern and southern hemispheres though, still has temperature drawbacks either way.

Which month has lowest temperatures in common for both Aust and North America?

I might be a bit slow - I just tried sending fresh pollen. Shipping frozen pollen has probably already been the norm for ages! Hilarious!
[Last edited by dellac - Feb 22, 2015 5:51 AM (+)]
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Name: Lorn (Roosterlorn)
S.E Wisconsin (Zone 5b)
Lilies Seed Starter Pollen collector Bee Lover Region: Wisconsin
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Roosterlorn
Feb 22, 2015 7:46 AM CST
Della, I freeze pollen all the time---well, almost. It's necessary when you want to cross a late bloomer to an early one, which happens quite a bit around here. I save pollen for about 4 or 5 years then generally replace with new or something else as need be. I have used 4 year old pollen successfully and I suspect it might last longer, even. My freezer is NOT a frost free type and that might have a positive bearing, however. Using normal pollen preparation for drying, I store it in 12 ml glass test tubes topped with cotton in a common test tube rack and then kept frozen a around 0'F. When I select a pollen to be used, I remove a couple anthers and allow them to come to room temperature for an hour or so. I always work quickly when retrieving the test tube and placing it back in the freezer as moisture will condense very fast both inside and outside the tube--in other words, I never take a tube of pollen out to the garden and then return it to the freezer. That way the remaining pollen stays frozen as well. I have a couple pictures I'll edit in later.

Pollen can be shipped from one continent to another and from one hemisphere to another, almost anywhere successfully. About a fifteen day shipping time seems to be no problem as long as the samples are properly dried. The most common time to ship is right after harvest.

Photo added
Thumb of 2015-02-22/Roosterlorn/66b318

[Last edited by Roosterlorn - Feb 22, 2015 7:59 AM (+)]
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Name: Rick R.
Minneapolis, MN, USA zone 4
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Sages The WITWIT Badge Garden Photography Region: Minnesota Hybridizer
Seed Starter Plant Identifier Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Image
Leftwood
Feb 22, 2015 9:00 AM CST
dellac said:From those with experience, could it be possible that lily pollen would still be viable after multiple freezings and thawings? I just assumed it would rapidly spoil after one defrosting, but that's based on chicken legs rather than any experience or knowledge of pollen viability.

This might be one of those repeated mantras from respected lily hybridizers, at least it is for me. I haven't seen any actual evidence to support the claim, and perhaps only in the interest of conversation brevity, I've never heard said people recount example(s) supporting the theory. But keep in mind that Lilium and Hemerocallis are both in the same family (Liliaceae). Sorry, not real experience to report.

Hilarious! Not sure if chicken wings have meaning here, but they (and pollen) are both very high in proteins. Rolling on the floor laughing

dellac said:Which month has lowest temperatures in common for both Aust and North America?

In Minnesota, our coldest week is traditionally the first or second week of January, but our coldest months are usually January and February.

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers. - Socrates

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