I cleaned out my neighbors horse stalls earlier today and I removed a foot of horse manure that was so compressed that it was almost like digging through wood. Soft wood. It came up in layers and chunks. If I smashed it hard enough it would crumble, but never into dust, just smaller pieces. I got down to the bottom layer that looked like sawdust. She was with me and said that was the sawdust she put down 20 years ago when the barn was built. You can see the consistency of the removed manure, it's like little pieces of dried wood after I broke it up. This stuff has never really been wet, except for urine. I took it all outside, wet it all down, layered it with fresh sawdust and made 3 layers of that for a compost pile. Here are my questions.

1. What has all that horse manure turned into with the absence of water but with so many years to break down? And all that pressure compacting it from the horses. It was basically all accumulated around the walls of the stall. Like it had all been slowly pushed outward from the middle over many many years. Would it be humus? I would guess that it's maybe the same process as what happens in a compost pile exposed to rain, but much much slower? It'll still pick up moisture from the air maybe and that will keep some microbes alive to break things down?

2. Being that is so hard, but also so light in weight, unlike actual wood in weight and moisture content but like wood in hardness, how would it break down in a compost pile? Would it take longer? Would the non compacted horse manure all turn into soil while these harder pieces of manure remained.

I basically made the pile to answer these questions. Next year after it's cured and all I'll get it tested and try to figure out what the test tells me. Hopefully by that time I'll have learned more about soil testing. I've read through "The Intelligent Gardener" and it was extremely helpful. Right now I'm reading "Chemicals, Humus, and the Soil". It's from 1957 but in general it has taught me a lot about what's going on behind the scenes in the soil. It's actually been extremely helpful in helping me understand things better.

Thanks for reading and for any help or info offered. Here's some pics of the soil.








Edit: I spent 20 minutes proof reading and editing but never once looked at the title.

Just my opinion but after twenty years what has it turned into? 20 year old horse manure.
I think once it has been wet and worked into the soil it will be a great soil amendment. It
might be good to break it up some first before wetting, but I think the worms will actually take care of that process once it is in the soil.
There is some argument that humus does not even exist, but that really depends on the definition or useage of the term. It seems to be a term with no exact definition that everyone can agree on.
https://www.gardenmyths.com/hu...
This really makes it hard for me to understand all the new products and fertilizers just recently on the market(at least new to me) with humic products added with a large increase in price for it. I have read it is often nothing more than coal added.
Maybe it could be labeled dehydrated aged composted horse manure with humus, you could then bag it an make a small fortune.

Agree with Larry, it will be a great amendment to your soil.

Thanks for your reply guys. That's what I'm going to use it for is my garden.

When I dug (mined) similar a number of years ago.... I used it and it was the same as any other horse poop...

Don't use horse manure to mulch or make compost for Azalea's
Rhodo's etc.
Great stuff apart from that.
John

Meandmyroses,
Why?

Seedfork said: Meandmyroses,
Why?

It's the urine in the stable manure that cause's problems.
I read this in a rhodo book some forty yrs ago.
It also recommended cow manure diluted to the consistency of weak tea!.
I kept stabled horses for many years, but never was tempted to use the
the Manure on my azaleas etc…
If you think stable manure is suitable for your Rhodos, well give it a
try.
John

Meandmyroses said: It's the urine in the stable manure that cause's problems.
I read this in a rhodo book some forty yrs ago.
It also recommended cow manure diluted to the consistency of weak tea!.
I kept stabled horses for many years, but never was tempted to use the
the Manure on my azaleas etc…
However, If you consider stable manure is suitable for your Rhodos, well give it a.
try.
John

Anyone have actual experience with horse manure around Azaleas and Rhododendrons? I don't have access to any horse manure, don't remember ever even fertilizing my azaleas. It just seemed odd that even a light use of manure would be harmful to those plants. I did a search and found several sites that did advise limited use of horse manure around many sensitive plants, but Azaleas and Rhododendrons were not even on those lists that I saw.

I've used horse poop around all my plantings... I haven't seen any problems.

On the other hand... I've seen people kill stuff with those chemical fertilizers...

And, the poultry manure from the commercial broiler houses can be deadly when used as a soil conditioner... but used extremely lightly? No probs...

Horse poop is ideal as a soil conditioner... there just isn't enough nitrogen in the stable scrapings around here to bother anything...

Although... using stuff that has too much wood shavings in it... is a whole nother art form...
It isn't that it has nitrogen in it... the potential problem is that those wood shavings pull nitrogen away from the plants!

So... I use that as mulch... in a couple years or whatever, it can be tilled in if desired.

Seedfork said: Anyone have actual experience with horse manure around Azaleas and Rhododendrons? I don't have access to any horse manure, don't remember ever even fertilizing my azaleas. It just seemed odd that even a light use of manure would be harmful to those plants. I did a search and found several sites that did advise limited use of horse manure around many sensitive plants, but Azaleas and Rhododendrons were not even on those lists that I saw.

I read about not using stable manure, from a library book on rhododendron's, some forty years ago. " no internet for me in those days"
So I have not used it personally, I took advice, so why would I?…
So the best off luck to anyone who want's to give it a go..
John

I don't have any info about the subject under discussion, but 40 years is a long time to not check and see if there is any new info available, and that the old info has not been tweaked, expanded, mitigating factors revealed, or credibly rejected altogether. The quest for knowledge has no final destination, IMVHO.

Meandmyroses said: I read about not using stable manure, from a library book on rhododendron's, some forty years ago. " no internet for me in those days"

I've read a lot of things in books, on the internet that didn't actually apply in my garden.

2 theories...

1) maybe the garden writer lived in a different area, and the things that seemed applicable in his garden... just wasn't at my house.

2) the theory that I prefer, the garden writer read something and just parroted the info without actually doing any hands on experiments in own garden.

The neat thing about these internet forums... we can talk about our own experience(s) in the garden... or mention that we read something in a book, but don't have personal experience with the subject.

Not to blame the garden writer(s), we all want to seem like a fount of information... but, once upon a time, they taught us to credit our sources.... Remember footnotes?

This discussion reminds me of a John Wayne movie called "The Quiet Man." A neighbor makes a comment about how his horse will benefit his roses.

Why would I even want to experiment with horse manure on this garden.



















Might as wellsave my breath for cooling my porridge….

I will admit that indeed that is a beautiful garden. So obviously you have experience with things you have tried that worked great. So tell us some of the things that helped make such a beautiful garden. Obviously no need to experiment with horse manure in your particular garden, looking at my garden there might be a much bigger need for experimentation.

Meandmyroses said: Why would I even want to experiment with horse manure on this garden.

Might as wellsave my breath for cooling my porridge….

I can't figure out where you are gardening.

When we have existing top soil and decent rain in due season, we can get away with a lot of practices that don't help the soil.

When we come in on a site that has had all the top soil and nutrients played out through centuries of poor farming practices... Tobacco and cotton here in the deep south...

We have to build soil if we expect anything to grow.

An easy way to build soil... adding barn scrapings where available...
Other people plant cover crops which get tilled under in their efforts to rebuild the top soil that has all been used up, or eroded away.

If you are able to garden without doing anything to rebuild the soil... well, that's your experience.
If you read the book "Dirt" by David R. Montgomery, you'll discover that a lot of people have gardened without replacing the organic material in their soil... and future generations paid a pretty steep price.

When I purchased this property on a new build housing site.
There was no earth, the builders had used what was to be my garden area for the dumpster track, from one part of the site to another.
So, what I got was compacted builders rubble.
That was fifty years ago.
I brought in top soil and over the years tried to improve to the best of my ability the basis for a decent garden.
The out buildings are all made from scratch by myself, each and every brick was cut and laid myself, we all like a nice spot to sit out in the summer months, do we not…
There have been many challenges with regard to the consistency of what I have garden with,
However I gained more than I lost over the years, I kept at it because I
Really did enjoy it. "Still do".
The challenge now is to introduce Acers to fill in the space above the azaleas etc, this is underway at the moment, and I am pleased with how
it's going.
God loves a trier.
John
Thank you Tiffany for the acorn.

My pleasure!

Along with the others, I am curious about the location. Not trying to invade your privacy but could you tell us at least the state or country? I'm sure you don't need me to tell you that the most basic factor of any gardening effort is the location.