Hi. I am looking for anyone with experience with Joker peonies. I ordered 10 of these - 9 from Supplier A (BC) and 1 from Supplier B (NB) since the Supplier A did not have 10. I planted these in the fall of 2021 in southern Ontario and 9 of 10 bloomed this year for the first time.

The peony from Supplier B bloomed as described in all of the online resources I have seen. It bloomed pink and transitioned to white with some pink highlights (not quite picotee edges). The first photo shows the initial bloom while the second photo shows it after petals started to drop.

8 of the 9 peonies from Supplier A also bloomed, but quite differently. They bloomed white with pink/red flecks and did not change colour at all before dropping petals. The third photo shows these blooms.

The foliage between Supplier A and B also looks different. In the fourth photo, Supplier A is on the left and Supplier B on the right.

I contacted Supplier A indicating that I did not think they provided me with Jokers. She said what I have seen with the peonies she supplied is typical. These are her responses:

"Yes it is very very normal for Joker to bloom either in an off white with dark pink flecks or in an off white with pink edges. And the same plant can change year over year. So one year it might have the pink flecks and one year it might have pink edges. And some years it might have both flowers growing from the same plant. It is indeed Joker. Many times, with all types of flowers, not just Peonies, when the variety is a dual coloured one, the shading of the colour can be seen throughout the petals. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this and perfectly normal."

"They bloom in all shades of white/pink and the edging is also virtually none to lots."

"It can be exactly the same variety Peony. There are slight variations to foliage at times during it's growth cycle."

Does this make sense? I question it as these do not exhibit the key attribute of changing colour and has almost no pink at all. The fact the the foliage is quite different is a red flag in my opinion.

Thanks in advance.

I have never seen Joker bloom white. Faders do tend to fade faster, almost from bud opening in hotter zones, see that with my Rose Heart. Not sure if Joker survived the move, haven't seen it bloom but I'm not there for all blooms opening.

All I can say is that supplier A is not reliable and sells whatever.

In the data base there a lot of variations in blooms color and markings shown. Take a peek at some they are a gorgeous peony.
Peony (Paeonia 'Joker')

Who is supplier a?

bumplbea said: In the data base there a lot of variations in blooms color and markings shown. Take a peek at some they are a gorgeous peony.
Peony (Paeonia 'Joker')

Based on those photos, there are no white blooms on Day 1. Based on that and what others have said here, it does not seem like Supplier A provided Jokers.

I found the 1 Joker I have stunning, while the others are quite disappointing as they are essentially just plain white.

RizzoR said: Who is supplier a?

Special Effects Flower Farm

LizinElizabeth said: I have never seen Joker bloom white. Faders do tend to fade faster, almost from bud opening in hotter zones, see that with my Rose Heart. Not sure if Joker survived the move, haven't seen it bloom but I'm not there for all blooms opening.

I will add that even the buds were white. They never showed pink from bud to losing petals.

Hi pisht, and welcome! Greetings from Edmonton.

I think I can help out here. I have grown Joker from a reputable vendor for a long time. During the year it was selected for the American Peony Society Gold Medal I provided photos for the supporting materials, including foliage photos which I will attach here later when I'm at home and am happy to send to you at full resolution via email. It's a great plant which I highly recommend growing. This year this is especially apparent as while other plants are going into early dormancy, Joker's foliage still looks pristine.

It's pretty easy for me to say that the plant in your third photo is simply not Joker. It never opens white; it opens a deep, intense hot pink and then fades out. The flowers also almost never have prominent carpels, and when they have carpels at all, they are greatly reduced or malformed - again, very different from your third photo which looks like a white lactiflora cultivar. I have never seen Joker have raspberry streaking throughout the petals.

In my garden the picture-perfect, well defined picotee effect doesn't occur ever year, so I am thinking it may be weather or growing condition-dependent. It does normally fade towards white, though. Your first plant looks good. It has similar foliage to mine and in the second photo you can see that the flowers don't completely self-clean when approaching the terminal stages of bloom, which is what I have observed as well. The central petals are often locked in between twisting, malformed carpels.

Unfortunately it looks like what you already suspect - a case of mislabeled plants. I'm sorry you have to go through this, especially with eight plants! What a disappointment. I hope you get a satisfactory resolution. Please keep us posted on what happens from here, if you would be so kind.

This is from their web site:
Joker
A relatively new variety on the scene. Very exciting to watch it mature as it starts as a deep pink and then the inner petals grow lighter with age.

Interesting scenario. I think you have some mislabeled roots there. Growing conditions and soil can have some impact on colors, but when you see "same plant" growing in same conditions there will not be much variability, in my experience. I hope you get a replacement or refund. That's a lot of error to compensate for. Please keep us updated on your progress with WFF and refund/exchanges.

Probably overkill, but I had all the photos in one place and it's fun to see the plant progression. I'll add these to the database and hopefully it will help with identification or make others consider growing this awesome plant.

Nick, those are fabulous. You captured that peony "through the ages" very well. Thanks for sharing.

Thanks everyone for the feedback. I will let you know how it goes with the vendor. I am not encouraged in a her providing a refund given she is convinced they are Jokers. Either she sent me the wrong ones or she truly believes she has been cultivating Jokers. I would be seeking a refund as I do not trust that she would actually provide Jokers.

What I am more annoyed with is losing 2 years. I will plan to take these out and replace with (hopefully) true Jokers in the fall. I would assume the originals would not survive, but I also have nowhere I would want to put them.

This is my second disappointment this year as I had the same area lined with what should have been Aveyron tulips (which are are a pink double tulip that look fairly similar to the Jokers), but ended up being some kind of purplish tulip. The attached photo shows both. I got the purplish ones from Veseys and they will be sending me new Aveyrons in the fall at no charge so I am pretty much digging up that whole garden in the fall.

That is so disheartening when you have a plan ,but the suppliers do not send exactly what you ordered. I hope that you have success in resolving this. And please be sure to share pictures of that bed when you finally get the right plants blooming.

Just an update that the supplier has agreed to give me a refund after I send her the roots back. As long as I actually get the refund, I will be satisfied. I do get the impression that she still thinks these are Jokers, but I am just not happy with them.

I did happen to find some potted Jokers online today from a reputable nursery and based on the size described by the person I talked to, this is the first season, so I should get blooms next year rather than waiting 2 years starting with bare roots, so I am happy with that.

Now I just have to dig up and replace these and about 80 tulips!

Thanks for the update. Asking for the roots back seems unusual to me - have you folks ever went through something like this? I am happy you are getting a satisfactory resolution.

I have seen a post by the owner elsewhere indicating that she does believe the plant she has is Joker. For what it's worth I tried to point out that it wasn't. Unfortunately she may be a victim in all of this as well, perhaps with the wrong plants being supplied to her. The plant posted looked like Petite Elegance, but who knows for sure.

Good luck with the new Jokers and sorry to hear about all that tulip work. Sheesh!

Thank you Tracey for the very kind words! That is much appreciated.

NMay said: Thanks for the update. Asking for the roots back seems unusual to me - have you folks ever went through something like this? I am happy you are getting a satisfactory resolution.

I have seen a post by the owner elsewhere indicating that she does believe the plant she has is Joker. For what it's worth I tried to point out that it wasn't. Unfortunately she may be a victim in all of this as well, perhaps with the wrong plants being supplied to her. The plant posted looked like Petite Elegance, but who knows for sure.

Good luck with the new Jokers and sorry to hear about all that tulip work. Sheesh!

Thank you Tracey for the very kind words! That is much appreciated.

I thought it was odd too to ask back for the roots. I am hoping she honours the refund after receiving the roots and doesn't take them an run. For the tulips from Veseys, they are just sending me new bulbs and I will give away the ones I dig up. I would have done the same for the roots.

In my opinion, these are also not Petite Elegance peonies. My plants had completely white petals (rather than baby pink) with a few raspberry streaks/flecks. I have also tried to identify it through an image search, but I have not been able to figure it out. I would also guess she is a victim. She probably has no experience with Jokers prior to when she started growing them and did not know the difference. As she grows lots of different plants, she may have just missed it. I, on the other hand, was only focused on 1 type of peony and noticed that something was not right. Ironically during the first season when they were small and did not bloom, I thought the foliage looked different, but it was hard to tell and thought worst case, maybe I did get sent the wrong peony and I might have to change the 1 from Supplier B as it would have be easier to mix up 1 root rather than 9.

Here is hoping next year I have a garden full of stunning Jokers like yours!

Are you able to share where you saw her other post? I am curious what she said.

Where did you find the potted peonies

Just a mention that it isn't the size of the roots necessarily that makes them 'pause' a couple of years before flowering - it's the move to a new garden
I hope you don't buy peonies from Veseys as this year they are selling Miss America and calling it Miss Canada
Thanks for the wonderful pics Nick - I grow Joker and now I know for sure that it is