I am trying to understand the significance of GRF obtaining exclusive rights to sell certain rare roses in the USA. This led me to revisit an old thread (The thread "String of Pearls and Crested Dawn" in Roses forum), and the outcome of this exploration left me amused. 😊 They are currently offering their premium roses for a price of $79—quite noteworthy.

https://rosebushes.gracerosefa...

What are your thoughts on the concept of an "Exclusive" collection in this context?

Elena999 said:
What are your thoughts on the concept of an "Exclusive" collection in this context?

79 $ for 1 potted rose? Well it's for very exclusive gardens, I see

Stuuning roses anyway, it seems they're the ones they use for ceremonies, weddings, etc

Yes, and it appears they are attempting to establish a monopoly on specific roses. I'm relieved that I had the foresight to purchase Augusta Louisa and Ashley from Palatine two years in a row.
Tantau roses are performing best in my garden and I am in love with them.

P.S. For our European friends, this Canadian establishment permits only one highly demanded roses per customer per season.

Elena999 said: I am trying to understand the significance of GRF obtaining exclusive rights to sell certain rare roses in the USA. This led me to revisit an old thread (The thread "String of Pearls and Crested Dawn" in Roses forum), and the outcome of this exploration left me amused. 😊 They are currently offering their premium roses for a price of $79—quite noteworthy.

https://rosebushes.gracerosefa...

What are your thoughts on the concept of an "Exclusive" collection in this context?

79.00? Yikes. That's extreme. I would avoid a nursery with tactics like that. I saw their roses and there are plenty of other roses that are similar for a much better price.

I just got some emails from Grace Rose about their rose plants and saw that they have hugely expanded their catalog and yes, raised the prices across the board.

My understanding of the "exclusives" when they first launched sales in early 23 for 24 shipping was that they were bringing Holland developed florist roses to the states to grow as plants. Westminster Abbey is one that comes to mind, grown as cut stems in Holland and licensed out to very few rose farms around the world. I'm a florist so I'm keenly aware of trending roses that are only available as cuts, not plants.

I ordered rose plants from them a while ago, not paying more than $50 per plant for varieties that I'm familiar with and have bought as cut flowers, I have never found these plants available and though Palantine often has some of the currently listed varieties as does Regan and others I'm sure, it was really hard to place an order with Palantine for in demand varieties.

Grace Rose's first offering of plants in the beige, nude, golden and cream florist varieties sold out really fast last year/last spring so I'm sure they're trying to sell as much as they can by offering more varieties. I was able to get some long time wish list Burling roses that she hasn't had available in a while. I hope they are paying Burling fairly for her plants and don't like the sound of taking free cuttings for profiting from the later propagation.

My order from GRF is due this spring so I'm looking forward to see if the plants are worth the wait and the price I paid for them!

You provide an interesting background story. I hope you let us know the results.

You are likely unaware of "My Black Thumb Nursery"? https://www.myblackthumbnurser...

Or, "Kate's Roses"? https://kateroses.com/

I find it VERY interesting how these things just suddenly seem to appear out of nowhere. I'd really love to find out if they were legally imported...

roseseek, I know that you are deeply in subject, but 12 or less bare root roses, not grafted with Phytosanitary Certificate can be legally brought to US. Import permit from APHIS is not needed in this case.
If roses are under patent, royalty must be paid, not sure about this step and how it enforced in US.

i had not heard of either of these sellers and went through the catalogs. Japanese varieties are interesting, my take after looking through is that Black Thumb grew stock from cuttings taken around the world and Kate's is similar to Grace is that they have a license to import roots. But I'm just guessing

Japan closely protects plant patents and exports are done in a similar manner to Holland. The government subsidizes breeding advancement. An example of a rose that's in cut production for about 10 years now is Wabara varieties, first years it was available only from the Naniwa Auction sent to wholesalers in NY and SF. Then VIP in Holland started to grow it, now it's grown in Colombia/Ecuador as well by a few farm. Grace Rose sells some as a cut. It's likely taken 10 years to increase the plant stock to put it into the world for sale. Edited to add article on the breeder, I was able to meet him at a Naniwa floral showcase in NYC in 2013. He loved seeing photos of how designers were using the roses.

https://thursd.com/articles/ex...

My guess is that the price Kates are charging to sell the plants is to cover the high royalties, export fees and exclusivity for a few years. With flower farming being so trendy thanks to Floret, never underestimate how much a wealthy inexperienced grower would invest in having exclusive pants. Peony Shop sells new varieties for thousands up front with no restrictions on dividing in the future.

As for enforcement of patents or import, I don't know how strict things are these days.

Palatine confirmed via Facebook post, that no Tantau roses for the next season.
At least some clarity for expectations, but very 😢.
Just wondering how exclusive rights to sell some roses get along with US anti monopoly laws.

Elena999 said: Palatine confirmed via Facebook post, that no Tantau roses for the next season.
At least some clarity for expectations, but very 😢.
Just wondering how exclusive rights to sell some roses get along with US anti monopoly laws.

sounds like an opportunity to connect direct with Tantau and see who distributes them or hey, you could always start your own business importing them-everyone's doing it

SulliO said: sounds like an opportunity to connect direct with Tantau and see who distributes them or hey, you could always start your own business importing them-everyone's doing it

I did.
ELENA RODRIGUEZ-FOSTER
Francis Roses / Corporate: 1110 E Missouri Ave, Ste 580 Phoenix, AZ 85014o 623-772-1555 / f 623-213-7389 / m 623-293-0307
Farm: 8990 E Milligan Road, Eloy, AZ 85131
www.francisroses.com

There could be an opportunity for those already in the flower business. I will exploring the option of purchasing Tantau and Japanese roses on Etsy.

I got several roses from GRF last yr, and have I believe 5 more coming this spring. The plants I got were decent, but I lost 2 in our triple digit summer temps, and nearly lost 2 more. Those are recovering. The roses we ordered for spring shipping were later available for fall shipping. I thought they were shipping them early for everyone, but then found out we had to sign up for early shipping. So mine are still coming in March I think. One of my "rose buddies" on the FB Rose Chat Group had signed up to get hers in the fall, and apparently they had a major problem getting some of the roses. They shorted her several roses, and she had an awful time getting them to answer her by phone or email. Eventually, they ended up crediting her at the original prices but did not refund the shipping charges, which was $20 per plant. Now if she wants to reorder those roses for 2025, they are significantly more expensive. The roses she did get this fall were own root, and all had two small plants per pot. We both have decided we won't ever order from them again. We're finding a lot of the "exclusive" and more unusual roses on Etsy and other places.

Beth, I also bought three of the 'garden roses' from GRF last year. Those were supposed to be mature plants, but they cut the roots very short, only 6-8" long, so they didn't do well even during our mild summer. I wonder if that's the reason your roses died.

No, I lost a LOT of roses again in the 100º temps. Happens every summer. I just didn't get the shadecloth up early enough to shelter them. Some just seem more susceptible than others. These were pretty decent plants, just not happy with high temps. And I probably should've planted them a little deeper in the pots. I haven't had a real problem with GRF per se, but their ridiculous prices are mainly what's keeping me from ordering again. My friend has good reason not to order again tho! I'll be interested to see if I end up getting all that is due to come in a few months. If I don't I'll be pretty p/o'd!! Most of them I can find on Etsy, or those seller's own shops off of Etsy.

Beth and Aerith, thank you for sharing your experience. For some reasons I had some great resistance to buying roses from Grace. I think that a lot of happened under the water we do not know about in their business. And I am feeling very bad for Palatine and their Tantau and Delbard this season harvest.
Hope they can sell it as potted roses in Canada.
PS. 1) Will see how she go after Etsy sellers...
2) Can't find now exactly the place in Palatine FB when folks discussed this issue and one lady, retired lawyer, told that the scenario Grace chosen might be questionable and can be against the US Law.

Beth, I feel sorry for your loss. Do you plant all the roses in pots, or are you starting to plan your new garden? I am hesitant to order roses on Etsy because the quality can vary and they lack any warranty. Do you have any recommended sellers?
BTW, the prices at many mail order nurseries these days are really ridiculous, but it's may not be bad for my pocket.

Elena, thank you for the information. Luckily I have no interest in cut roses, but am curious about the legality of Japanese/Chinese roses sold in the US. For the sake of consumer rights, I hope they can have official agents one day.

Aerith said:
Elena, thank you for the information. Luckily I have no interest in cut roses, but am curious about the legality of Japanese/Chinese roses sold in the US. For the sake of consumer rights, I hope they can have official agents one day.

I do not think that's its formally legal to be truthful. But "Catch me if you can!"

Here is how Grace explains her business model: https://youtu.be/mQNEwJoamCQ?s...

[quote="Aerith"] Beth, I feel sorry for your loss. Do you plant all the roses in pots, or are you starting to plan your new garden? I am hesitant to order roses on Etsy because the quality can vary and they lack any warranty. Do you have any recommended sellers?
BTW, the prices at many mail order nurseries these days are really ridiculous, but it's may not be bad for my pocket.

Right now 99% or so of my roses are in pots. We have lots more land than we did back in Paradise. But much of the land is (or was) a walnut orchard, and probably 75% of the trees have died. We will have to clear out lots of the debris and roots. There are plenty of areas where I can plant, and the soil here is some of the best in the country from what I've been told. It's just that I'm getting up in age, have sciatica and other physical limitations, AND my husband is having many issues too.... so we can't get as much done as we used to. Plus we have these damn ground squirrels as well as moles that tear up the ground all over. At this point I'm kind of just happy to enjoy the roses in pots. It looks like a nursery in the backyard! We're hoping to plant more roses in the front this spring tho. Possibly doing all the DAs, with arbors and rail fencing around. We'll see.

As for the Etsy sellers, there are several that I and my friend have been ordering from. I've had a few die, but most do pretty well so far. They are expensive, but maybe not as bad as GRF. You can catch sales and discounts, and some do free shipping over 2 or 3 plants, etc. The best one I've found right now is one called Springland Flowers. Prices are mostly under $60, and free shipping over $99. I just got a couple from them a few days ago that were in one gal pots. The sizes are quite decent; fuller than some of Heirlooms roses, but maybe shorter in height. Others are PlantRoses, GCMRanch, Ergongzy, Zephyr Garden and Jessie's Roses. They all have their own websites away from Etsy as well. I imagine after a point they will leave Etsy, as a couple other (more expensive) ones already have. Some of them send the roses with rootballs wrapped in plastic wrap. Some are in nice quart sized pots, and some in one gal pots. These sellers sell mostly Japanese roses, but they also carry a lot of the VIP florist roses, Chinese roses, some Kordes, and a lot of Massad roses, and others as well. I'm not sure of the legalities of their selling them, but as long as they are available, I don't see any reason not to order from them. Oh and some of them sell AUGUSTA LUISE.

Oh, Beth, thank you for sharing your experience and providing information from so many sellers. I'll check them out. Hoping that your new garden will go smoothly!