From Landrace gardening by Joseph Lofthouse
https://oceanofpdf.com/authors...

I've posted repeatedly about keeping alternative host plants in the garden to support night pollinators, rather than the extreme measures people discuss in regard to the hornworms...

Always nice to discover a book promoting similar methods of gardening...

Gotta face it... if we save seed from the veggies that were able to out-compete the "weeds", that didn't have blossom end root, that weren't attractive to bugs... How much better will be future harvests?

I think I may have that book downloaded on my Kindle... must remember to dig it out and actually read it. I've traded seeds with Joseph in the past, very interesting guy and I wish he had a presence here. A lot of patience is needed to practice that sort of gardening, which is certainly admirable but not a lot of us seem to have that much patience (or time).

Ya know, I'm pretty sure I've got a copy of the book somewhere around here, too. I have thought about reserving part of the garden, maybe a 10x10 foot area and tossing some of my OP vegetable seeds that are getting a little "long in the tooth" in it and see what does well...and doesn't. Nothing to lose but 100sqft of production. Of course, old seeds are questionable to start with so that probably wouldn't be a good method of seeding, but whatever germinates and takes hold could "fight it out".

Weedwhacker said: I've traded seeds with Joseph in the past, very interesting guy and I wish he had a presence here.

https://garden.org/ideas/view/...

I've seen his presence on other forums as well...
Unfortunately, he doesn't seem to post much on any of the forums where I've "seen" him.

Intheswamp said: tossing some of my OP vegetable seeds that are getting a little "long in the tooth" in it and see what does well...and doesn't. Of course, old seeds are questionable to start with so that probably wouldn't be a good method of seeding

Yeah...
Here in the deep south, our seeds don't keep well unless tucked away in the freezer, or a refrigerator that holds nothing but...

Maybe try a grex from the EFN?
https://store.experimentalfarm...

Definition of grex:
https://www.coloradocountrylif...

Surely that is how 'gardening' worked over 200 years ago and in places that never had access to chemicals.
As to edibles, I think it requires accepting less than market perfect looks, and making choices to eat what you can grow with success. Maybe also trading time and labor for 'purchased products' = as many of us do more or less, personal preference.
But hey, I believe in added value in eating from home grown, or not wasting all the land that I have control over on unproductive (to me or the ecosystem) plants and methods.

Isn't there, or wasn't there, a company that offered a subscription service or something that would ship "deformed" vegetables and fruit to your door for a "discounted" price. It was basically the culls from a packing plant that weren't "perfect" grocery store specimens. With my vegetables I've never noticed a difference between a perfect bell pepper and one that had grown a nose. Of course, when you grab one and your fingers sink through the wall of it...well, I don't try tasting (many) of those.

stone said: Yeah...
Here in the deep south, our seeds don't keep well unless tucked away in the freezer, or a refrigerator that holds nothing but...

I keep them refrigerated...usually in the 35F range. I used to store them in the freezer but I got concerned about the defrost cycle messing with them. I've got one of those little "dorm" refrigerators that I used to use at the shop that's sitting not used right now. The thing about it is that it doesn't have a defrost cycle...just a constant on/off cycling by the thermostat, which is what most places recommend for seed storage. I may get it and put it at the trailer where I raise my seedlings. I just had to add that to the electric bill when I've already got the big "utility" refrigerator running...it'd probably add another $4 to $6 the monthly electricity bill...maybe. That's about the price of a Big Mac, though, but I don't eat Big Macs....gimme somethin' off the dollar menu (wait, that's the $3 menu now! ). But, I digress....

As for tomato hornworms. Nope. Ain't gonna let'em "have their way" with my tomatoes. Now if they were like the fritillaria and would enjoy the passion flower plants growing *abundantly* in the adjoining hay field (and that invade the garden) they could get fat and sassy!

Though hornworms are a problem, my larger problem are leaf-footed bugs and stink-bugs. I hope to thwart the bugs by gong with smaller tomato plants this year, determinates mostly, that I can cover with insect netting. If the plan works and stops the stink bugs it should stop the hornworms, too. Who knows?...I might be nice and even plant some sprawling indeterminate tomatoes at the edge of the garden and give them extra nitrogen so they'll vine really good for the moths.

stone said: https://garden.org/ideas/view/...

I've seen his presence on other forums as well...
Unfortunately, he doesn't seem to post much on any of the forums where I've "seen" him.

He used to post frequently on a forum (whose name I have forgotten and am to lazy to check my favorite places) but six-seven years ago that site started die (Even the guy who started it left).
Used to post pictures of his gardens, and I learned how different the mountain valley climate is where he is at.
It can be 25 degrees warmer than where I am or 25 degrees colder all in a short time , up-down-up-down repeatedly.
Faceplant has killed a lot of forums.

RpR said: He used to post frequently on a forum (whose name I have forgotten and am to lazy to check my favorite places) but six-seven years ago that site started die (Even the guy who started it left).

Homegrown Goodness?
https://alanbishop.proboards.c...

Intheswamp said: As for tomato hornworms. Nope. Ain't gonna let'em "have their way" with my tomatoes. Now if they were like the fritillaria and would enjoy the passion flower plants growing *abundantly* in the adjoining hay field (and that invade the garden) they could get fat and sassy!

They do have alternative host plants...
They happily use datura inoxia and black nightshade...

Hornworm on black nightshade

At my house, the birds keep them off the tomatoes and peppers...


Here's somebody that is a bit problematic...


Kudzu bugs


In bucket of water...

Yeah, those kudzu bugs are pretty bad...they've messed up Kudzu jelly. The blooms used to be heavenly to smell with their "grape" aroma. My first encounter with kudzu bugs was really disappointing when I went to smell a kudzu flower...disgusting! Another wonderful import!

And, for folks that haven't seen these sap suckers here's the first one I ever saw, the photo taken probably fifteen years ago...a kudzu patch was probably 50' away. What do they resemble? They are known to big problems in soybean fields and elsewhere.



ETA: They are small bugs, probably only 1/4" long. They stink like stinkbugs, leaf-footed bugs, etc., do.

Thanks, Ed - I was wondering what those were! Hopefully they'll never show up here (but I wouldn't bet on that).

Hopefully they'll never show up here

They like beans... Climbing beans, fava beans... If they'd go eat the wisteria, I wouldn't complain.

stone said: Homegrown Goodness?
https://alanbishop.proboards.c...

That is the one.

kudzu bugs - I guess you are what you eat. Those bugs - that stink is just a come to dinner smell for the family. OK, pouring rain outdoors, good day for visiting dentist and chilling out this afternoon...

The chickens don't seem to mind the smell...
Unfortunately, the bugs fly away if I don't squish them first.

Uh, are you squishing all of those bugs, stone? If not, put a little soap in the bucket, if the chickens don't get a chance to eat them before they fly away then you're just releasing them to continue their destructive lives. It is amazing how quickly soapy water kills stinkbugs...I figure it'll probably be even faster on these "mini-me" stinkers. Just pour them out in the garden somewhere and they'll add to the organics...the little bit of soap in there probably wouldn't hurt the chickens, either, if you wanted to feed them to them.

I think I put a cover over that bucket... Allowed time for many of those bugs to drown...
When I squish stink bugs and drop them for the yard birds... they gobble them up...
I'm familiar with the sudz treatment... Bout the only way Ima gonna do that... is to re-use the dish water after it's too far gone for washing dishes.
Pretty much stuck on getting as much use outa anything as I can out here...