Aroids forum: What to do with these TINY seeds?!?

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Kentucky 😔 (Zone 6a)
Region: Kentucky Tropicals Plant and/or Seed Trader Moon Gardener Cactus and Succulents Garden Ideas: Level 1
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Swayback
Sep 25, 2013 9:46 AM CST
FINALLY a few of my attempted crosses took!

I'm pretty pleased about it!

Most if them don't look they will have time to mature outdoors, and past experience says that digging the plants and potting them to grow on in the GH, won't work, they drop the infrutesense...

Because I get so much better growth in the ground almost all my bloomers are there...not potted...

There's a few seed heads that will make it( if the critters leave em alone, raccoons are picking at them) and one that was already ready!

It was a partially seeded head, maybe 30% of them took, after tedious hours of seed cleaning, it yielded this...

Thumb of 2013-09-25/Swayback/6b3323

Stupid oxymorons!
The potentially largest plant I own...yields the tiniest seeds in the yard!
Not only that, even when rinsed they are tacky and clump together!

So...I have some ideas of what to do with them, ill elaborate more later...but it would seem that if I can can get another 2 weeks if no frost that I may just have about 20k seeds...I can't handle growing that many out in winter! No way no how!
I'd love to hear suggestions on how to start them and keep some going this winter!
What I REALLY would like is advice on how to store them. I know aroid seeds do not store well!
I only need them to hang on until march at the latest, but that's six months away ( omg Grumbling 6 months until I can grow again...😥).

What to do...what to do...
Please tree mail me for trades, I'm ALWAYS actively looking for more new plants, and love to trade!
Name: Elaine
South Sarasota, Florida (Zone 9b)
The one constant in life is change
Cat Lover Master Gardener: Florida Tropicals Multi-Region Gardener Vegetable Grower Region: Florida
Herbs Orchids Birds Garden Ideas: Level 2 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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dyzzypyxxy
Sep 26, 2013 10:46 AM CST
Move to Florida? Whistling

Can you post a pic of what the seed head looks like before you harvest? I thought they were sort of like berries.

A suggestion for helping keep the raccoons at bay, use your 'personal fert' generously around those plants - sort of like marking territory. Also coffee grounds and peppery stuff steer them away somewhat.
Elaine

"Success is stumbling from failure to failure with no loss of enthusiasm." –Winston Churchill
Kentucky 😔 (Zone 6a)
Region: Kentucky Tropicals Plant and/or Seed Trader Moon Gardener Cactus and Succulents Garden Ideas: Level 1
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Swayback
Sep 26, 2013 2:06 PM CST
You can even see a few of the seeds there on top, there's about 30-60 seeds per berry!
Thumb of 2013-09-26/Swayback/321db8
Thumb of 2013-09-26/Swayback/d49cd6
Thumb of 2013-09-26/Swayback/960bb2

No fair teasing!
I'd be in Florida if it weren't for my family...wife can't take the heat...and fl is a pretty wild place...from my experiences there I'm not sure it would be a good place for the kids either...

I'm not sure why the raccoons even mess with it, it can't taste good...that Thai gets "marked" twice a week...
Please tree mail me for trades, I'm ALWAYS actively looking for more new plants, and love to trade!
Name: Anne
Summerville, SC (Zone 8a)
Kindness should be a lifestyle!
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Xeramtheum
Sep 27, 2013 6:41 AM CST
They look pretty far along .. you might try cutting one of the spikes and keeping it in water until they ripen and store in the fridge .. that works with a lot of plants for me that produce pods late in the season. Also you could try covering them with panty hose your wife has worn for the day.

You want tiny? Try Confederate Rose seeds .. they are about the size of a grain of medium grind pepper and grow into 15 foot trees!
"Don't judge your day by the harvest you reap, but by the seeds you plant."

Unknown

[Last edited by Xeramtheum - Sep 27, 2013 6:43 AM (+)]
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Name: Elaine
South Sarasota, Florida (Zone 9b)
The one constant in life is change
Cat Lover Master Gardener: Florida Tropicals Multi-Region Gardener Vegetable Grower Region: Florida
Herbs Orchids Birds Garden Ideas: Level 2 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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dyzzypyxxy
Sep 27, 2013 11:54 AM CST
I was going to say that, too. I think you might want to let at least one seed head ripen, maybe until the berries actually drop. Try protecting them from the 'coons with a plastic mesh bag, like what onions come in, from the store? A bit tougher than panty hose.

Since you have so many, no harm in experimenting? I only have one Colo that's made seeds and they turned yellow/orange before they dropped, which I took to mean they were ripe and ready.

Let's hope LariAnn chimes in here. She's got lots of experience. Maybe try tree-mailing her with a picture?

Sorry for the tease Angel and don't believe everything you see on the news. There are lots of nice rural areas and small towns in Florida that are very quiet and law-abiding. Did you know we are the second largest cattle producing state in the US? Lots of ranches. It's a big state and the population is concentrated along the shores, plus half our population leaves for 6 months of the year. D'you think our summers are hotter than yours? 93 deg has been the highest temp we've recorded here in the last 3 summers. But of course our summers are much longer than yours. Winter makes up for it, though. I'm originally from British Columbia, and I tell my friends up there that our winter weather is exactly like Pacific Northwest summer.

Elaine

"Success is stumbling from failure to failure with no loss of enthusiasm." –Winston Churchill
Kentucky 😔 (Zone 6a)
Region: Kentucky Tropicals Plant and/or Seed Trader Moon Gardener Cactus and Succulents Garden Ideas: Level 1
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Swayback
Sep 27, 2013 1:11 PM CST
I'm lettin them ripen fully, they don't color up when ripe, they turn from green to a faded greenish white, they also don't jump off like the aroids I'm used to seeing with fruit!

The head I collected had become limp and flopped over, it was yellow and clearly not getting anything else from the plant, so I cut it, most of the berries were mushy and clearly were dead and on their way to rotting.

I certainly should have enough to play with...I plan to start a handful of them...I also plan for those to damp off and die...
I wish they would keep through the winter but I doubt they will at this point...

I'd have mailed lariann directly, but Ive never noticed her comment on a colocasia, and clearly her work is not centered around them at all...
I'm pretty sure puttin em in a glass of water will not help, everthing EE flower I've put in water, sucks up too much and ruptures the stem, much like a daffodil or amaryllis...
Please tree mail me for trades, I'm ALWAYS actively looking for more new plants, and love to trade!
Kentucky 😔 (Zone 6a)
Region: Kentucky Tropicals Plant and/or Seed Trader Moon Gardener Cactus and Succulents Garden Ideas: Level 1
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Swayback
Oct 2, 2013 10:52 AM CST

Thumb of 2013-10-02/Swayback/dc0653
Thumb of 2013-10-02/Swayback/09ff6a
Thumb of 2013-10-02/Swayback/c6281c
Thumb of 2013-10-02/Swayback/d3aef0
Thumb of 2013-10-02/Swayback/b469b8
Thumb of 2013-10-02/Swayback/07853a

Well, another seed head is down!

I've been told its the best seeds set ever, usually they only take in a few spots, this one failed to set maybe 1/20 of its berries!

As you can see I've been workin on it...and will likely be working on it for days!
All the seeds in that paper towel came from that one tiny white spot on the the seed head, in the last pic.

Boy have I got my work cut out for me!
Please tree mail me for trades, I'm ALWAYS actively looking for more new plants, and love to trade!
Name: Elaine
South Sarasota, Florida (Zone 9b)
The one constant in life is change
Cat Lover Master Gardener: Florida Tropicals Multi-Region Gardener Vegetable Grower Region: Florida
Herbs Orchids Birds Garden Ideas: Level 2 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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dyzzypyxxy
Oct 2, 2013 4:04 PM CST
Once again, I know nothing about EE seeds but I'm thinking that in nature when that seed head fell on the ground of its own accord, the flesh of the berries would stay around the little seeds to nourish them when they sprout.

Just suggesting you try sprouting some in the paper towel, both with and without the berry left intact.

Also I found out recently that some tomato seeds sprout more readily if you let the tomato flesh ferment around the seeds. Wonder if that might apply to these seeds, too.
Elaine

"Success is stumbling from failure to failure with no loss of enthusiasm." –Winston Churchill
Kentucky 😔 (Zone 6a)
Region: Kentucky Tropicals Plant and/or Seed Trader Moon Gardener Cactus and Succulents Garden Ideas: Level 1
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Swayback
Oct 2, 2013 5:36 PM CST
I always read to clean em real careful that the slime around em inhibits germination...

Which actually makes me think the best way to store them might just be in the seed head stuck in the fridge...

I got enough to spare...I think ill try that with part if that big head.

I'm pretty excited...the third head came down last night thanks to a coon, it was only a bout 30 good berries, the rest didn't take... But the seeds look dramatacally different!

Nearly twice the size and greenish as opposed to the off white bone color if the other 2 heads, none had the same pollen parent.
Please tree mail me for trades, I'm ALWAYS actively looking for more new plants, and love to trade!
Name: Elaine
South Sarasota, Florida (Zone 9b)
The one constant in life is change
Cat Lover Master Gardener: Florida Tropicals Multi-Region Gardener Vegetable Grower Region: Florida
Herbs Orchids Birds Garden Ideas: Level 2 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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dyzzypyxxy
Oct 2, 2013 8:59 PM CST
Hm, that's an interesting puzzle, Confused so how do the seeds ever germinate in the wild? Only way they would get separated effectively from the slime would be if an animal or bird ate them, digested the slime and eliminated the seeds. Or possibly if the slime dries after the berry collapses? Shrug! Maybe you should try drying some berries too?

Maybe the slime is meant to put a natural 'hold' on germination until the next growing season? By spring, the berry pulp will be gone on its own, and the seed sprouts just in time for warmer weather? Putting the seed head in the fridge sounds like a great idea. Maybe try keeping one somewhere a little warmer, but not warm enough for germination, too? Like on the floor of the greenhouse? Cool and dry, but not cold like the fridge.
Elaine

"Success is stumbling from failure to failure with no loss of enthusiasm." –Winston Churchill
Kentucky 😔 (Zone 6a)
Region: Kentucky Tropicals Plant and/or Seed Trader Moon Gardener Cactus and Succulents Garden Ideas: Level 1
Plant Identifier
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Swayback
Oct 2, 2013 10:58 PM CST
I worry about mold...

I'm gunna play around and see what works

I'm not sure what function(s) the slime has...it's super sticky...and kinda sweet, the coons keep trying and rejecting it, I think it would biodegrade on the jungle floor pretty quick, so either of your suppositions seem possible to me...
Please tree mail me for trades, I'm ALWAYS actively looking for more new plants, and love to trade!
Name: Evan
Pioneer Valley south, MA, USA (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member Plant Database Moderator Forum moderator Aroids Irises Celebrating Gardening: 2015
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Tropicals Foliage Fan Bulbs Hummingbirder Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge)
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eclayne
Oct 8, 2013 2:31 PM CST

Plants Admin

Swayback said:I always read to clean em real careful that the slime around em inhibits germination...

This is my understanding as well Sway. The germination inhibitors in the pulp are to allow the seeds to be dispersed by various critters (ants, birds,...) prior to germination, this inhibits inbreeding. Many Aroids share this trait.
Evan
Name: Noel Calvert
Tumaco, Colombia-South America (Zone 13b)
A gringo?Where?(does a doubletake)
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NoelCalvert
Dec 23, 2013 2:51 PM CST
Swayback:
The fruit of the berries inhibits germination as you have heard. I think Evan hit the proverbial nail on the head with the dispersal excuse, but I am going to go one more. This also gives the plant a physical way to guard its seeds against the dry season. By dropping its fruit late into the dry season, it insures the seeds will be dispersed, and the coming rains will rot & wash away the inhibitors. Then the wonderful green stuff starts...Good luck with your seeds in the refrigerator. Careful the temperature does not drop too much below 50 degrees as most aroids have not evolved a resistance to cold, and the cold will kill the seeds. The dormant tubers of Colocasias, Xanthasomas, Alocasias, Caladiums, & so on evolved the ability to "estivate" which means to store energy enough to rest in a dormant state during hot dry weather. Some amphibians can also do this.

Here is a link that explains this process well.
http://www.cactus-art.biz/note-book/Dictionary/Dictionary_A/...

I hope this information can help with your seed storage, & future growing endeavors.
Kneel & swear fealty to the Lord Dragon, or you will be knelt! Mazrim Taim

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