Daylilies forum: Slow - release fertilizing

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Name: virginiarose
Virginia
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virginiarose
Dec 14, 2013 6:56 PM CST
Hazelcrestmikeb said:I wonder what they are putting in their soil. I know some of it is genes. But, compared to the other hybridizers in FL, their bud counts are off the chart. Michele and anyone else that communicate with them do you have any insight from them on this?????

@Hazelcrestmikeb, I found a discrepancy on a daylily I was considering on LA. As you know I look everything up. So the seller was saying that the branching was 7 and bud count was 40. But when I looked it up the AHS said 2 branches and 12 buds? ('DIAMOND SILK)
I decided to email Guy and he said it was registered wrong and the stated bud count on the website was correct and the sellers quote from his website was correct. Guy also said the minimum branching and bud count for one of his intros is 4 and 25. It seems that he is breeding for the bud counts, his crosses seem to include at least one parent with a high bud count and branching.
He posted on his website that he uses this mixture for potting up daylilies in 3 gallon pots. Florida peat, dolomitic limestone and Nutricote 18-6-8, 360 day formula.

http://www.distinctly.on.ca/floydcove/ (under general information)

I still do not know why people add limestone and in what amounts and what is Florida peat? Maybe @tink3472 can explain it to us.

I got my first order from FC last spring and I was gasping for air when I saw them. They also sent me great bonus plants like CHERRY ICE CREAM SMILE, ROLLERCOASTER RUSH, BLUE RHINO and something else. They all bloomed within two months! Then there was rebloom and they were just wonderful plants. I hope they did not wear their self out! LOL.


Thumb of 2013-12-15/virginiarose/aa7b0f

Susan

In the spring, at the end of the day, you should smell like dirt.....Margaret Atwood
Name: virginiarose
Virginia
Money talks but Chocolate Sings!
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Level 1 Avid Green Pages Reviewer Hibiscus Dragonflies Daylilies
Bee Lover Dahlias Butterflies Hostas Birds Lilies
virginiarose
Dec 15, 2013 6:58 PM CST
beckygardener said:Susan - Do you have your plants in raised beds? I have used the playground sand before mixed with potting soil and it worked for me. The water flowed right through it. (For succulents.)


About half are in raised beds and half are in pots. I am working on new beds but they need more work.
Susan

In the spring, at the end of the day, you should smell like dirt.....Margaret Atwood
Name: Becky
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Hummingbirder Butterflies Seed Starter Container Gardener
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Birds Ponds
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beckygardener
Dec 14, 2013 7:06 PM CST
Wow! Those are impressive! Sounds like Guy is doing something right! Thumbs up
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters, compared to what lies within us.
Garden Rooms and Becky's Budget Garden
Name: Betty
Bakersfield, CA
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Birds The WITWIT Badge Region: United States of America Roses
Irises Cat Lover Daylilies Region: California Garden Ideas: Level 1
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Betja
Dec 14, 2013 7:15 PM CST
Well, big congrats on reaching this milestone, JWWC! I understand what you have had to go through to reach this point, and I'm impressed! And I've heard that the process of actually defending your dissertation to a committee can be grueling. So good luck, and I know you have our best wishes for a successful defense and the awarding of your doctorate!

I got an email from Karen Pierce this afternoon, saying that she has now posted pictures of all five of their mini introductions on their Facebook page -- and they're absolutely adorable! She said they will probably be $50 each or $200 for the entire collection of five. Sooooooo cute!

I really love getting an order from Floyd Cove -- not only do they send absolutely incredible plants, but their bonus plants are also incredible -- it really is just like Christmas when I get a box from them! Can't wait…!

Betty
Name: Michele
Cantonment, FL zone 8b
Seller of Garden Stuff Region: United States of America Pollen collector Dragonflies I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Region: Florida
Birds Butterflies Container Gardener Hummingbirder Garden Ideas: Level 2 Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle
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tink3472
Dec 14, 2013 7:22 PM CST
virginiarose said:

I still do not know why people add limestone and in what amounts and what is Florida peat? Maybe @tink3472 can explain it to us.



Well here we use lime to raise the ph of our soil. The pine bark is on the acidic side so the ph will be too low for daylilies. Also, the nitrogen in fertilizers lower the soil ph so eventually it will need to be raised back up thus the lime. I just sprinkle lime onto the bed and till in or water in if I'm not tilling right away. I don't really measure but it is probably 15-20 lbs per 4'x30' bed. I know it sounds like a lot but it's basically half a bag of lime.

copied from http://extension.psu.edu/agronomy-guide/cm/sec2/sec28

"A long-term effect of all ammonium based nitrogen fertilizers is to lower soil pH. Anhydrous ammonia, urea, diammonium phosphate, and nitrogen solutions, when first applied, greatly but temporarily increase soil pH in the zone of application. Ammonia is released and can “burn” germinating seeds or seedling roots in the area of fertilizer placement. In the eventual conversion of NH4+ to NO3-, however, an acid residue is formed."


this is what Florida Peat is

copied from http://www.plantapalm.com/vce/horticulture/medium.htm

Florida peat is made of organic materials that have broken down over many, many years. All the trees, bushes, and other small plants in a certain area die, then break down and settle in a depressed area. After thousands of years, this becomes a peat bog. Any nursery person can tell you that most plants are susceptible to their own particular insects and pathogens. Peat derived from several species of plants may also be susceptible to just as many pathogens as the plants themselves. Canadian peat is primarily broken down sphagnum moss. Not only does Canadian peat not break down as fast as Florida peat, but it also does not seem to be as susceptible to disease.

[url=www.pensacoladaylilyclub.com]www.pensacoladaylilyclub.com[/url]
Name: James
South Bend, IN (Zone 5b)
Hostas Enjoys or suffers cold winters Birds Seed Starter Annuals Region: Indiana
Region: United States of America Dog Lover Daylilies Container Gardener Plant and/or Seed Trader
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JWWC
Dec 14, 2013 7:48 PM CST
Thanks Betty! My mother asked me what I wanted if it was successful. I sent her a link to the Floyd Cove webpage. Big Grin

Those minis are great!
Name: Betty
Bakersfield, CA
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Birds The WITWIT Badge Region: United States of America Roses
Irises Cat Lover Daylilies Region: California Garden Ideas: Level 1
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Betja
Dec 14, 2013 7:49 PM CST
What a great idea!!! Hurray!

Betty
Name: Doris&David Bishop
Cartersville, Ga. (Zone 7b)
Daylilies Cat Lover Clematis Region: Georgia Garden Art
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Casshigh
Dec 14, 2013 8:25 PM CST
"A long-term effect of all ammonium based nitrogen fertilizers is to lower soil pH..."

Michele, I did not know this. Thank you for telling us. We have to add dolomitic lime to our daylilies because of the pine bark fines (soil conditioner) we use in our beds. Our soil is naturally acidic anyway. We need to add some additional lime to a couple of beds that we redid last spring and to a new bed put in this fall. That will be a good thing to do later this week when our temperatures are to reach the 60's.

Doris

Edited to keep this on topic. I am now headed to Floyd Cove's FB page to see their minis. I just might be tempted...

Edited to say, "Yep, I was tempted and want all the minis."
"Anything worth doing is worth overdoing"~~~David Bishop
http://daylilyfans.com/bishop/
Name: virginiarose
Virginia
Money talks but Chocolate Sings!
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Level 1 Avid Green Pages Reviewer Hibiscus Dragonflies Daylilies
Bee Lover Dahlias Butterflies Hostas Birds Lilies
virginiarose
Dec 15, 2013 6:45 PM CST
Betja said:Susan, regarding fertilizing with Nutricote, here is what Lyle627 told me over in his Daylilies In The Desert forum in Cubits a couple of years ago:

"I use Osmocote 18-6-12 for the beds and Nutricote 13-13-13 for the pots."

And he has absolutely gorgeous daylilies! He also said that Nutricote is also sold as Dynamite 13-13-13 and you can get Dynamite 13-13-13 from Home Depot. I just checked their website for Dynamite 13-13-13, and the price is $8.97 for a 2 lb. container, and because of a little nerve damage in my hands I need smaller containers to work with, so I'm just fine working with the 2 lb containers. I believe Nutricote is also one of the fertilizers that Bill Maryott recommends. I never got around to fertilizing other than spraying MiracleGro this last year, but I intend to follow through this time around. And what's more, it says on the Dynamite container "Feeds up to 9 months" -- YEA!!!


Yes, thanks Betty! I love that it feeds for nine months and Lyle has gorgeous daylilies!! I did see that Home Depot carry's it but it is not available right now, it is probably a seasonal thing like the Canadian Peat. I think that is a great price too.
Susan

In the spring, at the end of the day, you should smell like dirt.....Margaret Atwood
Name: virginiarose
Virginia
Money talks but Chocolate Sings!
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Level 1 Avid Green Pages Reviewer Hibiscus Dragonflies Daylilies
Bee Lover Dahlias Butterflies Hostas Birds Lilies
virginiarose
Dec 15, 2013 4:47 AM CST
Thanks for the great information Michele! I am glad I was not the only one wondering about Floyd Cove and what is his secrets. I see that Canadian Peat is sold at Home Depot but not available right now, no surprise there. I was looking to see if I might get some Nutricote 18-6-8. It does not seem to be available to the public but do you know of a comparable fertilizer? (all in one, complete)
I have been throwing in a little of this and a little of that but I think it might be less headaches if I could have a uniform mix. Like Tom Broome said, cheap soil is very expensive in the long run. Also if I keep changing my mind about what is the best mix I have problems watering because some stuff dries out faster.
I recently started adding sand but only about 5%. I was shocked to read that Tom uses 20% but that might be what it takes to keep stuff from rotting around here. The cheap potting mix I was purchasing has the perlite but I was adding sand and alfalfa. It is still raining here and stuff is still rotting. Argh!!

For those of you looking to get a Floyd Cove introduction I will point you to the web site. Under general information, Guy says in black and white that if you purchase at least 150.00 worth of daylilies he will GIVE you a new intro and that is what he did for me. I only purchased about 6 of the 35.00 daylilies and he gave me two new intros plus a couple more. I might have bought 12, I can't remember. LOL. but he did give me the new intro like he said on the web site.
Susan

In the spring, at the end of the day, you should smell like dirt.....Margaret Atwood
Name: Michele
Cantonment, FL zone 8b
Seller of Garden Stuff Region: United States of America Pollen collector Dragonflies I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Region: Florida
Birds Butterflies Container Gardener Hummingbirder Garden Ideas: Level 2 Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle
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tink3472
Dec 15, 2013 5:59 AM CST
Susan, if you have any feed and seed or any seed and garden places they usually have the bigger bags of fertilizer. Here they carry the Florikan which is the professional nutricote. Home Depot carries nutricote but it's labeled Dynamite and it's in very small containers so not worth getting if you have a lot of plants
You can see if you can find the Scott's brand or Osmocote.

I checked the Florikan website which makes nutricote to see if any places near you sell it. I don't know how close they are to you but here is a couple of places in Virginia
http://www.florikan.com/distributors/VADist.html

I'm not sure if they actually have retail location or not. I know here places like that do and you can buy it without an account; you could always call them and see. I looked on BFG's website and they sell the Nutricote 18-6-8 total. It seems to be a bit pricey there because I usually only pay $50-$70 per bag at BWI
[url=www.pensacoladaylilyclub.com]www.pensacoladaylilyclub.com[/url]
Name: Michele
Cantonment, FL zone 8b
Seller of Garden Stuff Region: United States of America Pollen collector Dragonflies I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Region: Florida
Birds Butterflies Container Gardener Hummingbirder Garden Ideas: Level 2 Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle
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tink3472
Dec 15, 2013 6:24 AM CST
virginiarose said:
I recently started adding sand but only about 5%. I was shocked to read that Tom uses 20% but that might be what it takes to keep stuff from rotting around here. The cheap potting mix I was purchasing has the perlite but I was adding sand and alfalfa. It is still raining here and stuff is still rotting. Argh!!
.


We add about 10% sand to ours. I have added more (too much really) , not purposely, and it made the beds become hard to dig in. It could have been the sand that was brought in though. To me it wasn't washed enough or properly and it still had chunks of clay in it. These chunks are like molding clay (very doughy). I like the sand that has been washed enough that when you pick it up it just flows out of your hand. Here they wash clay to get the sand and you can buy either single washed (masonry sand) or double washed (playground sand). I didn't order the sand so I don't know what was actually ordered but they basically brought a pile of muck.
[url=www.pensacoladaylilyclub.com]www.pensacoladaylilyclub.com[/url]
Name: Becky
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Hummingbirder Butterflies Seed Starter Container Gardener
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Birds Ponds
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beckygardener
Dec 15, 2013 7:29 AM CST
Susan - Do you have your plants in raised beds? I have used the playground sand before mixed with potting soil and it worked for me. The water flowed right through it. (For succulents.)
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters, compared to what lies within us.
Garden Rooms and Becky's Budget Garden
Name: Mike
Hazel Crest, IL (Zone 5b)
There's a place of quiet rest !
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Hazelcrestmikeb
Dec 15, 2013 9:03 AM CST
Menards always have the playground sand on sale. I have added that to beds on initial preparation. I don't do any potting of daylilies around here. I had one in a pot for one winter that I moved to the front landscape bed due to its long blooming display this past fall.
Michele thanks for the link to that article on cheap soil. I have read of the optimum ph of 6.4 for daylilies. I believe it was an article by Mr Trimmer. Correct me if I am wrong. "My problem was that my original soil mix cost about $14.00 per yard, whereas the new mix is about $32.00 per yard. The former owner of 1-4 Plantland, Don Maynard, used to tell me, "The most expensive thing you can buy is cheap soil." plantapalm.com. Proper initial garden preparation is essential. If you are not going to do it right, don't do it at all ! I always take the time to prep the planting hole before planting. Florikan doesn't have any distributors in Illinois. The feed store that I got the Alphalfa from probably carry the bigger bags of the extended release fertilizers or they can order it. Now we know what they use in the pots. What about the soil??? Drooling
robinseeds.com
Name: Mike
Hazel Crest, IL (Zone 5b)
There's a place of quiet rest !
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Hazelcrestmikeb
Dec 15, 2013 10:01 AM CST
Check out the branching and bud count on "RED BULL".
http://www.distinctly.on.ca/floydcove/
2012 fall collection
robinseeds.com
Name: Betty
Bakersfield, CA
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Birds The WITWIT Badge Region: United States of America Roses
Irises Cat Lover Daylilies Region: California Garden Ideas: Level 1
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Betja
Dec 15, 2013 10:33 AM CST
Susan, regarding fertilizing with Nutricote, here is what Lyle627 told me over in his Daylilies In The Desert forum in Cubits a couple of years ago:

"I use Osmocote 18-6-12 for the beds and Nutricote 13-13-13 for the pots."

And he has absolutely gorgeous daylilies! He also said that Nutricote is also sold as Dynamite 13-13-13 and you can get Dynamite 13-13-13 from Home Depot. I just checked their website for Dynamite 13-13-13, and the price is $8.97 for a 2 lb. container, and because of a little nerve damage in my hands I need smaller containers to work with, so I'm just fine working with the 2 lb containers. I believe Nutricote is also one of the fertilizers that Bill Maryott recommends. I never got around to fertilizing other than spraying MiracleGro this last year, but I intend to follow through this time around. And what's more, it says on the Dynamite container "Feeds up to 9 months" -- YEA!!!

Betty
Name: virginiarose
Virginia
Money talks but Chocolate Sings!
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Level 1 Avid Green Pages Reviewer Hibiscus Dragonflies Daylilies
Bee Lover Dahlias Butterflies Hostas Birds Lilies
virginiarose
Dec 15, 2013 6:23 PM CST
tink3472 said:Susan, if you have any feed and seed or any seed and garden places they usually have the bigger bags of fertilizer. Here they carry the Florikan which is the professional nutricote. Home Depot carries nutricote but it's labeled Dynamite and it's in very small containers so not worth getting if you have a lot of plants
You can see if you can find the Scott's brand or Osmocote.

I checked the Florikan website which makes nutricote to see if any places near you sell it. I don't know how close they are to you but here is a couple of places in Virginia
http://www.florikan.com/distributors/VADist.html

I'm not sure if they actually have retail location or not. I know here places like that do and you can buy it without an account; you could always call them and see. I looked on BFG's website and they sell the Nutricote 18-6-8 total. It seems to be a bit pricey there because I usually only pay $50-$70 per bag at BWI


Yes, we have a Feed & Seed. I got a big bag of 10-10-10 last year and usually throw in a few when I pot something. I have some very clean sand, it does not say play sand but it is nice. I do remember reading about the name Dynamite somewhere but I know I can get my guy Tom at the F&S to figure it out or order it. Thanks so much for the information. For me it does not have to be the 360 formula and with that in mind I might be able to use Osmacote or the plain 10-10-10? I'm just trying to focus on getting through the winter. I got bigger pots, because most of the daylilies in one gallon pots were suffering and rotting. The bigger pots have better drainage and my new mix helps too but it is not perfect. I need more sand and the Dynamite stuff looks good. I found some time released in one pound bottles for 4.99 that's the 9 month kind. I will ask Tom at F&S first.
Susan

In the spring, at the end of the day, you should smell like dirt.....Margaret Atwood
Name: Doris&David Bishop
Cartersville, Ga. (Zone 7b)
Daylilies Cat Lover Clematis Region: Georgia Garden Art
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Casshigh
Dec 15, 2013 5:35 PM CST
I just sent an email to the Pierces at Floyd Cove to reserve the 2014 Mini Collection which is now on their website. I got this almost instant auto email:

Thank you for your email.

Today (Sunday) we have had a micro-burst or small tornado go through our property, causing some tree damage and knocking out power, which is now restored but unfortunately we have not phone or internet connection. They say it might be Tuesday. As we have just updated the website - I wanted to let you know if you email about an order it may be a day or two before we get back to you. I am currently at McDonalds using WiFi so I will try to check again tomorrow or until our internet or phone is reconnected.

We thank you all for your interest and continued support of our Daylilies and we will get back to just as soon as we can.

Guy & Karen Pierce
Floyd Cove Nursery


So, if you should try to reach them by phone or email, it may be a couple of days before you can reach them. Sure hope they (or anyone else) did not have any serious damage.

Doris
"Anything worth doing is worth overdoing"~~~David Bishop
http://daylilyfans.com/bishop/
Name: Betty
Bakersfield, CA
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Birds The WITWIT Badge Region: United States of America Roses
Irises Cat Lover Daylilies Region: California Garden Ideas: Level 1
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Betja
Dec 15, 2013 5:49 PM CST
I just did a post which said roughly the same thing, so I deleted it. And I can add that when Karen emailed my confirmation this morning she said there was no other damage to either location, thank heavens.

Betty
Name: Betty
Bakersfield, CA
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Birds The WITWIT Badge Region: United States of America Roses
Irises Cat Lover Daylilies Region: California Garden Ideas: Level 1
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Betja
Dec 15, 2013 8:13 PM CST
Susan, I believe you can order it through the website and then pick up your order at your local Home Depot, according to what they said on the website. That's what I'll probably do in late January/early February.

Betty

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