Roses forum: Any idea of what this rose could be?

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Alya
Jan 9, 2014 9:48 PM CST
How many petals does it have? Do the blooms fully open or stay as they are in the picture.
How high and tall is the plant now? Do the flowers have good resistance to the rain? Or do they sulk and look terribly battered after the rain? Does it have strong upright stems?

Do the blooms open in full to reveal the sepals? Does it stay close as it is in the picture?
What color the sepals are?

Looking at picture of the entire plant, from the way the whole plant is growing it looks like it wants to grow horizontal as a ground cover rose and seems to have an arching habit. It does look like it is an old type rose. It is not Floribunda from the way the flowers are hung on the stems - I think Floribunda roses have flowers in clusters - each stem carry more than one flower. Are the leaves in fives or Seven? It certainly looks very healthy with and strong growing habit. Have you ever had to treat it for any disease? Do you prune it? If so ho often and when? Is it slow or fast growing?

Some sort of Hybrid rose: Hybrid Tea? Hybrid Musk?

I have quite few roses I would love to know what they are? So I have been paying attention to such features. So far all the results are guess. I am beginning to think about getting a DNA report to establish what and who they are. But the thought of the cost and not knowing who to to go to I carry on with guessing game.

I especially have this lovely Canary yellow Hybrid Tea rose flowering its socks out even now in January 2014. It came with the house when we moved years ago. I am sure the mild winter has got to do with it this year - between 3 and 9 degrees Celsius day and night with few frost night. But compared to the other 30 odd roses that are full of buds and but can't get to flower in full because of the cold weather this rose is in full bloom.

Name: Debra
Garland, TX (NE Dallas suburb) (Zone 8a)
Service dogs: Angels with paws.
Dragonflies Dog Lover Bookworm I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Photography Bee Lover
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lovemyhouse
Jan 9, 2014 9:52 PM CST
Welcome! Alya. Smiling

Do you have photos that you would be willing to post for us?
It’s okay to not know all the answers.
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis Irises
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zuzu
Jan 9, 2014 10:31 PM CST

Moderator

Post photos of your mystery roses here, Alya, and we'll do our best to come up with some guesses.
Name: Annette
Duluth, Ga (Zone 7a)
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Cem9165
Jan 9, 2014 10:47 PM CST
Welcome Alya, Welcome! I'll have to take a closer look at this rose, when it starts growing actively to answer some of your questions Smiling

Another plant that I have to consider, could it be Graham Thomas, and how thorny is GT?
"Aspire to inspire before you expire"

author unknown
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Forum moderator Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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zuzu
Jan 9, 2014 10:59 PM CST

Moderator

My Graham Thomas is quite thorny.
Name: Suzanne/Sue
Sebastopol, CA (Zone 9a)
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Calif_Sue
Jan 10, 2014 12:34 AM CST

Moderator

I think Charles Darwin sounds like a good match, several people in the comments section on HMF mention a strong fragrance!
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Name: Debra
Garland, TX (NE Dallas suburb) (Zone 8a)
Service dogs: Angels with paws.
Dragonflies Dog Lover Bookworm I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Photography Bee Lover
Plays in the sandbox Butterflies Region: Texas Garden Sages I sent a postcard to Randy! Charter ATP Member
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lovemyhouse
Jan 10, 2014 8:28 AM CST
My Graham Thomas did, too, part of why I gave it away.
It’s okay to not know all the answers.

Alya
Jan 10, 2014 11:59 AM CST
Hi everyone, Hi Zuzu, Hi Cem9165,

Thanks for for asking for the picture of the rose.
Today I wanted to get some pictures of the rose since it is January and want all of the world to see it and help me out to identify the rose.: Something is wrong with my camera. All of the pictures come out extremely fuzzy. One pics of the rose I took today out of the camera is attached: Out of the 134 shots this is the best looking one.

Having said that I have pictures of the rose taken in Summer.
(I really wanted to show off my mystery rose flowering now and not in the summer!!! I am very disappointed indeed.)

I sincerely hope that I can have any luck with identifying few more. All came with the house and all are simply stunning even though they flower in the summer only. I attach pictures for three of them on top of the yellow rose.

The one just under the yellow rose is Hybrid Tea rose. I have no idea what it is called. The flowers are massive indeed. Thorny, suffers from black spot. Come and gone within three months. Does not produce too many flowers. It has very few leaves. the leaves are in fives. Mid green colour. The rose produces flowers one at a time. Once one is finished then it gets on with the next. Too capricious and delicate! But it is worth the wait. It is not too bushy and it is about 90cm tall.

The next three salmony-peachy-pinky rose pictures I attach are all from one single rose plant. The rose is Floribunda rose. The flowers are truly massive adult ones are about 20cm across in diameter. It is thorny, suspectable to black spot it has an upright growth the stems bow down because of the weight of five or more massive flowers they have to carry. The bees love it.

The one with cream inside and pink outside is Hybrid Tea. There are only about two or three stems of flowers on it at a given time and it is gone within tree months. Similar to Rose called "The Bride and Groom".



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Name: Debra
Garland, TX (NE Dallas suburb) (Zone 8a)
Service dogs: Angels with paws.
Dragonflies Dog Lover Bookworm I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Photography Bee Lover
Plays in the sandbox Butterflies Region: Texas Garden Sages I sent a postcard to Randy! Charter ATP Member
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lovemyhouse
Jan 10, 2014 12:13 PM CST
beautiful photos Smiling
It’s okay to not know all the answers.
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Forum moderator Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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zuzu
Jan 10, 2014 1:55 PM CST

Moderator

Alya, first a few questions. Where do you live? We may need to set some hardiness limits, so we need to know your gardening zone.

Were all of these roses on the property when you moved in? If so, how many years ago was that? We have to be able to rule out roses that weren't available in commerce until recently.

If these are roses that came with the property, have you been able to identify any of them? Sometimes it helps to narrow down a gardener's favorite nursery. One of the roses on your plant list, for instance, is Nostalgie, which was carried only by Hortico for years.

My initial guesses, just from looking at the pictures, are Grand Siecle and Mrs. Lovell Swisher for the hybrid tea on the bottom.

Rose (Rosa 'Grand Siecle')

Rose (Rosa 'Mrs. Lovell Swisher')

The rose in the middle group of photos reminds me of Freisinger Morgenrote and Rainbow Sorbet, but I'm just judging by the way mine look at certain times of the year. How tall is the rose bush?

Rose (Rosa 'Freisinger Morgenrote')

Rose (Rosa 'Rainbow Sorbet')

I'm not even going to hazard a guess at the yellow one. There are so many yellow roses that look like this one. Is it a short hybrid tea?

Alya
Jan 10, 2014 4:41 PM CST
Thank you lovemyhouse!

Zuzu, I live in Bedfordshire in England. I hope this is no problem for you all. We moved to the house 12 years ago. The house came in with a small rose flower bed with 22 roses in. Amongst the 22 I could identify only two so far: Rose Elina and two Arthur Bell's. Since then we added 30 more roses into the rose bed and made the rose bed larger. Then, in 2012 we decided to replace the whole lawn areas with perennial plants mixed with roses.
Because here in 2012 it rained so much the ground become saturated, the lawn was unable to soak the rain and the gardens become small lakes about 20cm deep and the water started to enter the house through the air-bricks flooding the foundations. So we were forced to replaced the tarmac driveway with shingles, replaced the lawn with plants and so on. We did not want to plant more trees because we already have massive four ancient Oak trees with Tree Preservation Order on together with about 60 conifers. a Hawthorn, 10 Yews, 8 Holly trees and so on. So in winter of 2012- 2013 and during last three months I bought more than 100 roses. Now I have got about 200 different roses. The pictures of Nostalgia and the Arthur Bell and all of the other roses I can name and put on your web site and which you have kindly allowed me to post the pictures of were bought during the last two years. I keep the receipt for them as they are given some kind of lifetime guarantee by the suppliers - two of them are yougarden.com and Spalding.

The yellow rose that flowers really very late was producing three or more flowers at a time non stop until the snow covers the ground. Then the rose would have a break about 5 weeks then start to produce the same number of flowers without any break. Then I moved the rose to three different places during the last two years because of redesign and essential building work. This season it is producing lots of flowers non stop. Having said that during the last 12 years this winter is the first winter we have been having with only about three frosty nights so far. Also since the rose is planted in a secluded part of the garden this has helped it to flower. I hate to think about what is around the corner after this warm winter. The last few years have been "extreme weather conditions"! God help us all.

In October 2012 I invested in a Philips camera and paid about £800 in order to take the pictures at the front and back garden. I have not touched the camera for the last two months because we have had the back garden dug inside out to install another massive new soak-away and the patio is being done on a DIY basis whenever we have time. Today all of the pictures I took are all just fuzzy and garbled together. Because we live in a small village the mobile phones don't work here. The mobile phone I have has no camera, pay as you go and 7 years old. So I spent quite a lot of money for a "good" camera. Now I will have to get it fixed.

I hope the background is OK and not boring.

I shall look at the links you pointed and see what happens.
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Forum moderator Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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zuzu
Jan 10, 2014 5:18 PM CST

Moderator

Alya, this could limit our usefulness in identifying your roses, unfortunately. Most of the rose forum members live in the United States or Canada, and the roses that are popular here aren't necessarily popular in England. I know, for instance, that Sweet Dream was the number-one rose in England for many years, but it has always been quite difficult to find here.

It also explains the height of the yellow hybrid tea. Harkness, for instance, has produced a number of hybrid teas that grow to only about 90 cm. They're almost unknown here because the nurseries here carry mainly hybrid teas that are at least a meter in height, and most are between 3 feet and 5 feet tall.

If the rose in the middle group of photos was on the property when you moved in, you can ignore my guess of Rainbow Sorbet. It isn't old enough to have been available in England more than 12 years ago.

It might be worthwhile to look for your mystery roses among the McGredy and Dickson roses. Sometimes gardeners have favorite hybridizers, and the roses you've been able to identify (Arthur Bell and Elina) were hybridized by McGredy and Dickson.
Name: Debra
Garland, TX (NE Dallas suburb) (Zone 8a)
Service dogs: Angels with paws.
Dragonflies Dog Lover Bookworm I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Photography Bee Lover
Plays in the sandbox Butterflies Region: Texas Garden Sages I sent a postcard to Randy! Charter ATP Member
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lovemyhouse
Jan 10, 2014 5:40 PM CST
The background is fascinating, not boring at all. Kind of exchange we like. Smiling
It’s okay to not know all the answers.

Alya
Jan 10, 2014 7:45 PM CST
Thanks lovemyhouse.

Zuzu,

Rose (Rosa 'Mrs. Lovell Swisher') is the nearest but is not the same. The colour of the petals is outside very rich dark pink - what I call is "Posh dark pink" - and the inside is whiteish-creamy colour. The picture is the almost 100% of the representation of the colour of the rose to the naked eye. The rose is not bushy at all. From the base the rose sends about 1m tall shoots into the air with one flower on the stem.

The rose in the middle group is not Rainbow Sorbet judging from the buds in the pictures nor it is Freisinger Morgenrote. Freisinger Morgenrote is more like Rose Troiko. This rose has all of the flowers in the pictures above in one stem. It is like one of those roses that has DNA deformation on. But always produce the same flowers on each stem. The intensity of the colours changes with the intensity of the sunshine and the heat. It is guaranteed that it will produce the same flowers. When I took those pictures this bush was about 1.80m tall. But each year I prune it very hard to just 30cm to help it become more bushy. If I let it grow it will be a very tall straight and upright rose bush with the flowers nodding down to the ground because of the weight.

The yellow rose is about 75 to 80 cm tall maximum. It has plenty of glossy dark green foliage. There is no chance for the weeds to grow underneath during summer time. In winter it sheds about 3 quarter of the leaves yet in full bloom. In the summer it is very healthy disease free but as it gets cold it suffers from black spots and I think this causes for it to loose its leaves.

You are right. Here in England they prefer shorter roses. I suppose it is all because of the climate in here. Also the more and the stronger the sunshine the roses receive the better they perform and the better disease free they become. The heat of the sun bakes off the diseases. So they try their best to breed the roses to fit in with the climate. Otherwise there is no point having a lovely rose and having to spray it very often.

The rose breeders try their best to breed roses to suit the climate. They even do it for the runner beans and sprouts and strawberries. Here, for the last 10 years, Rothampstead Agricultural Research Center has been trying to produce this lovely strong and sweet flavored strawberries that you only get in hot climates. Now they say they have managed to produce the strawberries suitable for this climate and the product is available on the market. The same goes for the roses.

Harkness is not far from us. About half an hour drive. You made me think that it will be good idea to take some parts of the rose with me and visit Harkness. See if they can help.

Thanks for all your help and tips.
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Forum moderator Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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zuzu
Jan 10, 2014 8:07 PM CST

Moderator

My mistake. I suggested Mrs. Lovell Swisher and Grand Siecle because I thought the rose was pale pink with a darker pink reverse. If it's white with a pink reverse, I have some other suggestions:

Rose (Rosa 'Betty')

Rose (Rosa 'Darling Annabelle')

Rose (Rosa 'Sheer Bliss')
Name: Annette
Duluth, Ga (Zone 7a)
Charter ATP Member Roses Birds Tropicals Hummingbirder Bulbs
Region: Georgia Lilies Irises Peonies Clematis Plumerias
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Cem9165
Jan 11, 2014 4:10 PM CST
zuzu, you are a genious!

Today, after all of our rain I decided to dig around the base of my rose, and I found the tag buried under the red clay and pine straw that had built up around it. It is definitely Charles Darwin, I'm so relieved to finally have a name. Here's the plant today.
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"Aspire to inspire before you expire"

author unknown
[Last edited by Cem9165 - Jan 11, 2014 4:11 PM (+)]
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Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Keeper of Poultry Farmer Roses Raises cows
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porkpal
Jan 11, 2014 4:16 PM CST
Cem9165 said:zuzu, you are a genious!

Yes, we all agree, I'm sure.



Porkpal
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Forum moderator Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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zuzu
Jan 11, 2014 4:37 PM CST

Moderator

Much as I love this title. I'm not the genius, Annette. You are. You're the one that came up with Charles Darwin in your list of contenders, and I simply agreed with you. Smiling
Name: Annette
Duluth, Ga (Zone 7a)
Charter ATP Member Roses Birds Tropicals Hummingbirder Bulbs
Region: Georgia Lilies Irises Peonies Clematis Plumerias
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Cem9165
Jan 11, 2014 6:49 PM CST
zuzu,
I still want to thank you for all of the information you provided, which helped me identify Charles Darwin.

I just love the yellow color of this rose, with a touch of apricot, and the scent is just wonderful. I also like the shape of the blooms, and that the color changes as the blooms mature.

I planted it in 2005 or 2006, during my immature gardening years. I had not a clue as to what I planted, I just knew that I liked roses with this kind of bloom. Over the years, I've graduated from Knockout Roses, (I still have them), to roses that have wonderful scents and colors.

In doing the search to find the name of the rose, I found that I have 8 other David Austin roses. When I ordered them, I was going for scent and color, not paying attention to the hybridizer. Now it's time to figure out where I can add a few more of these delightful roses to my garden.

Now that I have the proper name of my rose, I'm going to add it to the database.

Annette
"Aspire to inspire before you expire"

author unknown
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Forum moderator Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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zuzu
Jan 11, 2014 7:45 PM CST

Moderator

If you bought eight Austin roses without knowing the name of the hybridizer, it's clear that his roses are a good match for your aesthetic preferences. I think you definitely should add some more Austins to your garden.

I have lots of mystery roses left over from the mid-1980s, when I first started collecting roses and had very little money for gardening. Spring Hill used to sell a set of hybrid teas for some ludicrously low price I can't remember. It was a set of five roses -- a white one, a yellow one, a red one, a pink one, and a bicolor one. No names on them, and I'm sure they were the leftovers, but I bought three sets and most of the roses are still alive.

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