Vegetables and Fruit forum: Satsuma oranges

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Name: Duane Robinson
Kerrville, Texas (Zone 8a)
Region: Texas Master Gardener: Texas
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Poohdaddy
Jan 27, 2014 12:57 PM CST
Here is a picture of my Orange Frost. I thought I would take a picture of it before I covered it for tomorrows impending weather. Since it is suppose to get to 22 tomorrow night, I thought I would cover it to be safe. It was covered a couple of weeks ago when it got down to around 20 but didn't cover it for the snow last week.




Name: Tim Hoover
Elysian FIelds, Texas (Zone 8a)
Region: Texas Seller of Garden Stuff Beekeeper Ponds
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TimHoover
Feb 24, 2014 11:13 PM CST
Hey Dave,
I live somewhat North East of you, near Shreveport. I have been growing a number of varieties of Satsumas for the past 12 years outside in the ground.. I have only ever lost one, oddly, it was Miho. I also am growing Meyer Lemon. Most years I get huge harvests...so many that at some point, I begin to start throwing them at my neighbors cows just to see if I can hit them. Yeah, I know, I need a hobby...
Anyway, here is the "trick" if you want to grow them. You must find a South wall and plant them along it- very (!) close. Satsumas grow more like a big, floppy multi-stemmed shrub rather than a tree. I do not need to really do any pruning because as they get larger, they will get beyond the "protection" heat zone that the wall creates and get cold zapped. They get as tall as my roof and then, again, the cold will self prune them. The protection zone seems to be about 7-8 foot from the wall.

In very bad years like this one and in 2010, they have been defoliated and bit back harder than normal from the cold but ultimately, they came back fine. Right now, they look like they have been blow-torched but I am not worried. Most years they have been perfectly evergreen. As a side note, until 2010, I also had a Blood Orange that became huge and bore very heavily along this wall. Amazing since that is a very cold sensitive variety. I got down to 9 bone-chilling degrees one night that year. I kissed my Blood Orange goodbye.

All these Satumas, as is typical, are on Trifoliate Orange rootstock. BTW..the Blood Orange undoubtedly was on Sour Orange rootstock- much less cold hardiness is imparted to the cultivar.

I just want to warn all you folks in Zone 8...yes, Satsumas ARE very cold hardy but if you want to have them more than a couple years, you must find a good micro climate in your yard. If you are in the middle of a large city such as Dallas or Atlanta, perhaps you need not be as worried. If you are rural as I am, do not even think about sticking it out in the middle of the yard. They are to expensive to gamble on! I have given this advise to many of my customers over the years- if they followed it, they have been picking some nice Tangerines! If they did not, they rarely made it but a few years, if even one.

I really enjoy showing them off to non-believers who drop by. This past fall, I took a ton of them to the farmers market that I participate in. I was called a liar so many times by know-it-alls (YOU CAN'T GROW CITRIS AROUND HERE!!!!) I decided not to ever bother bring them back, lol. Funny thing was that across from me there is a rotten old man who goes down to South Louisiana and brings a truck load of Satsumas back. He was selling them like crazy, for twice what I was selling them for. Mine were as sweet as candy and picked the day prior to the market. His looked old and dull. Go figure....
Hope this helps.
Name: Dave Whitinger
Jacksonville, Texas (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Region: Texas Permaculture Raises cows I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level
Beekeeper Garden Sages Avid Green Pages Reviewer Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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dave
Feb 25, 2014 10:12 AM CST

Garden.org Admin

That's a tremendous help, thank you! I have several south facing brick walls and that is exactly where I will plant these. Thumbs up
Name: Tim Hoover
Elysian FIelds, Texas (Zone 8a)
Region: Texas Seller of Garden Stuff Beekeeper Ponds
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TimHoover
Feb 27, 2014 9:27 AM CST
Hi Dave (and other Zone 8 Texans),
I took a photo this a.m. to show you the "horrors" you can expect growing Satsumas outside in the ground. As I mentioned, these trees are in a strong micro-climate (up against a South wall). This winter has been awful due to the low temps- the trees are fried. I am not the least bit worried though. They will have all new foliage straightaway and be blooming as soon as our temps moderate. Browns Select has been particularly hardy for me. As I mentioned in my prior post, many years this does NOT happen and the trees are nice looking all winter. Last year was a good example- no burn at all. No trees I have planted away from the house have survived more than a couple years- no matter the cultivar.
Thumb of 2014-02-27/TimHoover/127ea7

Name: Arlene
Grantville, GA (Zone 8a)
Greenhouse Region: Georgia Garden Sages Organic Gardener Beekeeper Vegetable Grower
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abhege
Feb 27, 2014 10:55 AM CST
So @TimHoover I would really like to try and grow these outside but I am in zone 8, just south of Atlanta. What do you think if I put them up against my south wall? If so, I have to find some place to purchase them that would ship to GA.
Name: Elaine
Sarasota, Fl
The one constant in life is change
Cat Lover Master Gardener: Florida Tropicals Multi-Region Gardener Vegetable Grower Region: Florida
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dyzzypyxxy
Feb 27, 2014 4:40 PM CST
I wouldn't try to buy any citrus from Florida right now. Everything has potential to spread the Citrus Greening disease. It's a virus spread by a psyllid, so if you buy a tree that is infected you might not know it for a couple of years, and then boom! You've spread it to every citrus within miles of you.
Elaine

"Success is stumbling from failure to failure with no loss of enthusiasm." –Winston Churchill
Name: Dave Whitinger
Jacksonville, Texas (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Region: Texas Permaculture Raises cows I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level
Beekeeper Garden Sages Avid Green Pages Reviewer Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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dave
Feb 27, 2014 5:17 PM CST

Garden.org Admin

Tim, your information is most appreciated! Now I'm chomping at the bit to plant some of these for myself. My south facing walls await trees! Smiling
Name: Tim Hoover
Elysian FIelds, Texas (Zone 8a)
Region: Texas Seller of Garden Stuff Beekeeper Ponds
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TimHoover
Mar 1, 2014 10:53 PM CST
Hi Arlene,
Yes, if you intend to grow them in the ground, you MUST put them right up against a South wall- they will need the radiant heat from the wall at night to get them through the cold snaps. The wall acts as a heat reservoir- gaining heat all day as the sun shines on it, then slowly, releasing it at night.
As for purchasing Satsumas, these days most Lowes stores carry them. If you want, simply call your local Lowes store and ask for the LNS (Live Nursery Specialist). Each store has one and this is the person who will generally know what is coming and can also place an order. Since Georgia does not have any commercial plantings of Citrus that I am aware of, I do not think there are any issues regarding shipping into the state (Unlike Texas and Louisiana- our stuff must be produced in the state to be sold here..quarantine issues). These are the things Elaine is alluding to, along with, I believe, Citrus Canker.
Anyway, as I mentioned, Satsumas, along with other Citrus, are getting to be a staple at Lowes stores. Oddly, I was visiting relatives in Iowa a couple years ago and guess what? Citrus in Iowa Lowes! Yup...
You might also find a number of Kumquat trees along with the Citrus. Very cold hardy and a delightful little form of Citrus.
Name: Arlene
Grantville, GA (Zone 8a)
Greenhouse Region: Georgia Garden Sages Organic Gardener Beekeeper Vegetable Grower
Seed Starter Cut Flowers Composter Keeper of Poultry Keeps Goats Avid Green Pages Reviewer
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abhege
Mar 1, 2014 10:59 PM CST
What a great way to end this day! I will be checking the local Lowe's and just last week our garden club got a new member and she works in the garden center at Home Depot so I will also ask her about them. I'll check into the kumquats as well. I'm at least going to give it a try!!! Thank You!
Name: Carol
Santa Ana, ca
Sunset zone 22
Charter ATP Member Hummingbirder Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Orchids Region: California Plant Identifier
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ctcarol
Mar 2, 2014 1:28 PM CST
The Kumquats will grow very nicely , and stay smaller in a large pot. I've had mine in the same pot for about 20 years and produces nicely. Even if you don't use the fruit, it is very decorative. Can't get a picture today, as it's buried by other plants, and 3 days of rain makes it too heavy to drag out in the open. It's in 2 1/2' X 2 1/2' plastic tree pot, and when dry I can drag it around, so it could be protected where winters get cold.
Name: Arlene
Grantville, GA (Zone 8a)
Greenhouse Region: Georgia Garden Sages Organic Gardener Beekeeper Vegetable Grower
Seed Starter Cut Flowers Composter Keeper of Poultry Keeps Goats Avid Green Pages Reviewer
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abhege
Mar 6, 2014 3:07 PM CST
I stopped in to a nursery I have never been at today and they have the Arctic Frost!!! Yay! I didn't get it today but DH didn't get too bent out of shape with the price...$59.99. I'm going to check around and see if it's available anywhere else since this is a hoity toity nursery and I may be able to find it a bit cheaper.
Name: Dave Whitinger
Jacksonville, Texas (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Region: Texas Permaculture Raises cows I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level
Beekeeper Garden Sages Avid Green Pages Reviewer Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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dave
Mar 8, 2014 7:41 PM CST

Garden.org Admin

@Poohdaddy came through for me and I'm now the proud owner of two Arctic Frosts and two Orange Frosts. I'm so excited.

How far from the wall should I plant these, and how far apart from each other?
Name: Tim Hoover
Elysian FIelds, Texas (Zone 8a)
Region: Texas Seller of Garden Stuff Beekeeper Ponds
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TimHoover
Mar 8, 2014 10:20 PM CST
Dave, I planted mine as close to the wall as I was able to. In fact, for the first few years I grew them as Espaliers then, as per usual, I got too busy (lazy) to keep up with it. That was how I was able to learn that they will self-prune from the cold as they grew too far away from the house. I think mine are planted about 6 foot apart- this has created a wall of Satsuma. We have Arctic Frost at the garden center that I work for but I will not bother with them. Got quite enough Tangerines each fall as it is!
One thing I like about growing them along the wall is that when it rains, it runs off the roof right into the trees. Oh, and of course, when they bloom (April) all the windows on that side of the house have the wonderful scent drifting in.
You know what is funny? My bees have only a passing interest in the blossoms! Perhaps it is because there is such an abundance of other stuff blooming but still...I always figured bees would go nuts for Citrus blossoms!
Name: Kristi
east Texas pineywoods (Zone 8a)
Dog Lover Cat Lover Bromeliad Bookworm Ponds Vegetable Grower
Tropicals Region: Texas Hummingbirder Cactus and Succulents Herbs Greenhouse
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pod
Jan 28, 2017 10:05 PM CST
I am planning to plant my Satsuma and lemon trees in ground this spring and while doing a google search, it brought me full circle back to this thread. I've reread it and am curious... How many of you added Satsumas, which ones and how are they doing???

Be content moving inch by inch because, by days end, the inches, will add up to feet and yards.

Fulfilling ambitious objectives is usually done one step at a time.

Butterflies
johnthefarmer
Apr 1, 2017 6:43 AM CST
I have 12 citrus trees in a very sunny open area in my yard in Fairhope, AL (hardiness zone 8b). I have a mix of lemon, grapefruit and owari satsumas. Nearly all of them died back during the ice storm of January, 2014. They all eventually came back in shoots from the base of the tree. Now I have very leafy, thorny, bushy trees with no buds and no fruit. I planted one additional tree last year and it is now budding. I have aspirations to bring the flowering back by grafting with the buds from the new tree. I have never grafted before, but I am pretty fearless. What is the worst that can happen?

Here are my main questions - Do I need to cut the many shoots back from my revived trees to establish one "trunk"? The advantage that I see here is that I will have one place to make my new graft with flowers from my new tree.

Can I make a graft above the existing location for the old graft?

And then timing, should I prune now and allow the tree to "recover" for a month of so before making the graft?

Thanks so much for this forum and I look forward to any responses.

John
Name: Carol
Santa Ana, ca
Sunset zone 22
Charter ATP Member Hummingbirder Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Orchids Region: California Plant Identifier
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ctcarol
Apr 1, 2017 7:56 PM CST
Sound like everything above the graft is dead, leaving only the sour orange root stock. I would remove them and start over, covering the new trees when freeze is predicted. Just my opinion.
Name: Philip Becker
Fresno California (Zone 8a)
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Philipwonel
Apr 3, 2017 11:20 AM CST
You need to graph to good trunks.
Cut them off low, one or multi trunks. Graph immediately.

Next time its going to get to cold for them. Cover, but hang some old fashion christmas lites, the kind that get hot in trees, or a flood lite or two at base of tree. Thumbs up
😎😎😎
Anything i say, could be misrepresented, or wrong.
Name: Ed
Crenshaw County, South Alabama (Zone 8b)
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Intheswamp
Aug 16, 2017 7:13 AM CST
Reviving the revival of a revived thread... Rolling my eyes.

What Phillip said about the old/incandescent type of Christmas lights is good advice. There is a lady at our church (who happens to live on the route we take to church) who has a satsuma tree against the south side of her house. The tree has been there many years and when temperatures drop below freezing suddenly it's Christmas time for the satsuma tree!!! The lights work great and she makes a great crop every year. This is in south Alabama about 50 miles south of Montgomery.
South Alabama - 8a/8b
The Enchanted Land of Humidity
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Name: Susan B
East Tennessee (Zone 6b)
Charter ATP Member
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lakesidecallas
Aug 16, 2017 7:30 AM CST
And also please be aware that it is illegal to buy and transport citrus trees from some states. It's best to buy citrus in your own state. You can google Save Our Citrus and also look at this web site:
https://www.aphis.usda.gov/aph...
There is also a save our citrus facebook page.

Meiwa kumquats are my favorite citrus. You eat the entire fruit, the peel is very sweet and the pulp somewhat tart. They are round. Nagami kumquats are more oval but at certain times of the season they taste like soap to me! It must be me, because my husband says they taste fine to him.
Name: Kristi
east Texas pineywoods (Zone 8a)
Dog Lover Cat Lover Bromeliad Bookworm Ponds Vegetable Grower
Tropicals Region: Texas Hummingbirder Cactus and Succulents Herbs Greenhouse
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pod
Aug 16, 2017 8:33 AM CST
Good information on the kumquats Susan B ~ Thank you!

I'm not sure which kumquat I have (bought it last fall) but I hope to have enough of a crop to make a marmalade. Just need to stop eating them as soon as they ripen. Whistling
Be content moving inch by inch because, by days end, the inches, will add up to feet and yards.

Fulfilling ambitious objectives is usually done one step at a time.

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