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springfield MO area (Zone 6a)    Frillylily Feb 13, 2014 12:32 PM CST |
| I need to put in some raised beds. I was thinking of using cement blocks. Can I just lay a single row of them on the ground? I wondered if that would be deep enough or not? I guess I could do 1 bed 2 blocks high for potatoes. How deep do potatoes grow? Will they look ok if I don't pour a footer or mortar them together or just do one row? |
Name: Jay Nederland, Texas (Zone 9a)            Horntoad Feb 13, 2014 1:43 PM CST |
| What size blocks? wildflowersoftexas.com texasnatureonline.com |
springfield MO area (Zone 6a) Frillylily Feb 13, 2014 1:53 PM CST |
| well I understand the standard to be 8x8x16. They were priced to me for $1.05 as seconds here locally. The split face were $2 for culls. Not worth the extra money in my poor book! |
Name: Jay Nederland, Texas (Zone 9a) Horntoad Feb 13, 2014 2:08 PM CST |
| Ok, standard cinder blocks. You just said cement blocks which could have meant stepping stones, pavers or something else. I would say they would be fine for most gardens plants. A lot of people use cinder blocks for garden borders. https://www.google.com/search?... wildflowersoftexas.com texasnatureonline.com |
Name: Rick Corey Everett WA 98204 (Zone 8a) Sunset Zone 5. Koppen Csb. Eco 2f         RickCorey Feb 13, 2014 3:28 PM CST |
| >> Will they look ok if I don't pour a footer or mortar them together or just do one row? I think they look fine, but my standards are low! If you level their base and nudge them into tidy alignment, that seems plenty tidy to me. Someone smoothed off her blocks a little and then PAINTED them. Classy! I like the brick-red concrete paving stones, but your price for an 8x8x16 cinder block is a lot like my 3/4" x 8 x 16" or 1" x 12" x 12" And your 8" row will be a lot more stable than my 8" or 12" or 16" leaning wall. I do have to straighten mine up every few years since I didn't glue or mortar them. I like to be able to re-shape, widen or narrow beds.      Just because it ISN'T complicated doesn't mean I can't MAKE it complicated! Weather Links ~ Sunset Zones ~ Degree Days ~~ National Gardening Association Kitazawa Seeds ~ Tainong Seeds ~~ ATP Member Map ~~ My Blogs ~~ Coop Extension Finder Seriously Hot Peppers ~~ Seed Library Resources ~~ Piggy Swap Chat #11 |
Name: Rick Corey Everett WA 98204 (Zone 8a) Sunset Zone 5. Koppen Csb. Eco 2f RickCorey Feb 13, 2014 3:32 PM CST |
| For depth, how bad is your existing soil? Once you have gardened in one spot for a few years, the organic mater, water, fertilizer and roots in the RB soil will tend to soften, break up and enrich the original soil under the added soil. After a few years you may be able to step inside your raised bed and dig down 12 or 18 inches deeper than you could when first creating the bed, and amend that subsoil to the point where potatoes can grow into it. Especially if you grow a few crops like daikon radishes that seem to have jackhammers in their root tips. Or a catch crop of alfalfa or maybe fall rye or clover. When I make an RB, I like to do some pick work on the subsoil and mix in something organic and chunky like bark mulch, or just organic like manure. I figure that will give roots and worms a head start on improving the clay. Just because it ISN'T complicated doesn't mean I can't MAKE it complicated! Weather Links ~ Sunset Zones ~ Degree Days ~~ National Gardening Association Kitazawa Seeds ~ Tainong Seeds ~~ ATP Member Map ~~ My Blogs ~~ Coop Extension Finder Seriously Hot Peppers ~~ Seed Library Resources ~~ Piggy Swap Chat #11 |
springfield MO area (Zone 6a) Frillylily Feb 13, 2014 4:31 PM CST |
| well here is the deal. I have a small yard and I found out that my leach field is about 30 ft wide and 100 ft long !!! so really, like almost the whole yard. The sewer guy, hereto referred to as SG said the lines are probably only 10 inches deep. yikes. I have did my research on SG and found out he knows his stuff and has been inspecting sewers for ages and is very knowledgeable. He says I can till down about 3-4 inches ok, after that I will start hitting the gravel/lines. The best way to garden over it, is with raised beds. I asked if he thought growing vegetables over the area would be safe and he said 'certainly'. So well, I guess it is either grow them or starve lol I figure it will be better than the GMO stuff I buy at the store, so I have nothing to lose. I want to do something super affordable because of being so poor.  But not anything that looks really awful because after all it is in my yard! I was thinking cement blocks would be permanent, not rot or draw pests, and can be moved if need be. I also thought of using rail road ties. But haven't actually priced those. Since I have alot of irons in the fire right now, I though they might actually be easier and faster to put in, and then in say 15 years or so down the road I can always re-do them later with whatever I choose then. I also thought about doing a berm style but then I wondered how the sloped sides work-wouldn't the water run off? I have never did anything with a berm obviously  |
Name: Larry Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)      Seedfork Feb 13, 2014 4:33 PM CST |
| A good solid footer would make them look nicer an mortar would hold them in place better, but I think for the first year at least I would start with out that, just go one layer high and see how you like it. and see how well the plants grow. It will give you a chance to check the bed layout, the position of the sun and shade, and then after a year if you have to make changes you will be able to much easier. |
Name: Rita North Shore, Long Island, NY Zone 6B         Newyorkrita Feb 13, 2014 4:36 PM CST |
| Don't use RR ties for veggie beds. Do you have rocks around? Rocks could be used if you had them. |
Name: Larry Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b) Seedfork Feb 13, 2014 4:42 PM CST |
If block and other items are too much trouble or expense I think you could get by at least the first year with a berm style. Just make the beds wide enough that your berm slowly taper off. You would get very little run off that way, plus I think they are actually easier to work, but they have a nasty habit of spreading without any containment. I just use lawn edging around mine. |
Name: Rick Corey Everett WA 98204 (Zone 8a) Sunset Zone 5. Koppen Csb. Eco 2f RickCorey Feb 13, 2014 5:56 PM CST |
| I think that railroad ties are soaked in creosote, or some even-more-toxic modern equivalent. Landscape timber hopefully is less toxic! But it doesn't last forever. Concrete is forever. Just because it ISN'T complicated doesn't mean I can't MAKE it complicated! Weather Links ~ Sunset Zones ~ Degree Days ~~ National Gardening Association Kitazawa Seeds ~ Tainong Seeds ~~ ATP Member Map ~~ My Blogs ~~ Coop Extension Finder Seriously Hot Peppers ~~ Seed Library Resources ~~ Piggy Swap Chat #11 |
Name: woofie NE WA (Zone 5a)         woofie Feb 13, 2014 6:56 PM CST |
| And did you see the discussion about keyhole gardening? That might be a good choice, or at least something to consider. Haven't tried it myself, but it is a form of raised gardening, and it's intriguing. Here's a link to the thread in case you missed it: The thread "Keyhole Garden" in All Things Gardening forum Confidence is that feeling you have right before you do something really stupid. |
springfield MO area (Zone 6a) Frillylily Feb 14, 2014 7:17 AM CST |
RickCorey said:I think that railroad ties are soaked in creosote, or some even-more-toxic modern equivalent. Ive been looking this up, and it seems the more modern equivalent is probably correct. (WHAT it is, is anyone's guess, right?) I have read that getting used ties (read-older) are considered safe for gardening because a good deal of it has leached out. I seen one site that advised to line the inside of the ties with a heavy plastic or similar so that it doesn't have much contact with the soil in the bed and that can help. Some people swear they will poison your food and you can drop dead by merely glancing at one in your garden. Others think they are the best thing to happen to raised bed gardening. who knows, I guess it goes on the list with everything else questionable but no answers either way. One website I read said that the old creosote tends to evaporate into the air moreso than absorbing into the soil. Concrete block would be better that is no argument. And as far as cost difference I don't think it will be much. I guess the difference really is in the labor (energy) to handle and place all the blocks. Now if you were doing a footer and mortar that would add alot of expense and labor obviously. But beings how little ol me will be the doer, none of that will be done lol But it would look waaay nicer! |
springfield MO area (Zone 6a) Frillylily Feb 14, 2014 7:21 AM CST |
| woofie, I did see the keyhole garden thread, but for some reason I just can't wrap my brain around that concept. I have an area about 50x50 ft square, so maybe that is why? I think my keyhole would be seen from outerspace! |
Name: Arlene Grantville, GA (Zone 8a)        abhege Feb 14, 2014 8:34 AM CST |
| My previous neighbor did concrete blocks and I have always thought they looked neat and she planted herbs in the openings of the blocks. She didn't mortar. Why mortar when they are pretty secure and then you will be able to reconfigure if you want? Besides, with the tiles under, if you have a problem they would have to dig up the field and break up all your mortar anyway. Just my two cents. But certainly would NOT use RR ties!!! |
Name: woofie NE WA (Zone 5a) woofie Feb 14, 2014 9:40 AM CST |
| Heh, you can't make a keyhole garden that big; 6 ft in diameter is the limit. But I mentioned it because it would avoid the problem with worrying about what's underneath, and you're supposed to be able to really pack the beds. But concrete blocks are great! And that's a good price you're getting. I use them for lots of things, and I don't bother with worrying about mortar or anything like that. They sometimes shift a little, but not anything I worry about. Confidence is that feeling you have right before you do something really stupid. |
Name: David Reaves Austin, TX (Zone 8b)    david_reaves Feb 14, 2014 12:40 PM CST |
| I was going to suggest adding soil into the holes of the blocks, too. If you stack two blocks, be sure the holes align and you will have a pretty good planting space for herbs, lettuce, and other smaller vegetables... or if you like the idea of companion planting with flowers and vegetables, you could plant flowers or "trap" vegetables in the blocks. David |
Name: woofie NE WA (Zone 5a) woofie Feb 14, 2014 1:53 PM CST |
| That also makes the blocks less likely to shift. Confidence is that feeling you have right before you do something really stupid. |
Name: Rick Corey Everett WA 98204 (Zone 8a) Sunset Zone 5. Koppen Csb. Eco 2f RickCorey Feb 14, 2014 2:09 PM CST |
| >> Some people swear they will poison your food and you can drop dead by merely glancing at one in your garden. Yes, I've read posts like that, mostly in the old DG site. I think there is no shortage of REAL things to worry about in life. As a kid, I had DDT sprayed on me from the sky, and used a "DDT bomb" inside a Boy Scout tent every night for two weeks. So it's hard for me to take low-level exposure to not-very-toxic chemicals as seriously as some. >> I guess the difference really is in the labor (energy) to handle and place all the blocks Absolutely! I hauled my paving stones around gradually by buying no more than no more than one small trunk-load per day. I try to keep my beds narrower than 36" wide, so I can reach everything from one side. Just because it ISN'T complicated doesn't mean I can't MAKE it complicated! Weather Links ~ Sunset Zones ~ Degree Days ~~ National Gardening Association Kitazawa Seeds ~ Tainong Seeds ~~ ATP Member Map ~~ My Blogs ~~ Coop Extension Finder Seriously Hot Peppers ~~ Seed Library Resources ~~ Piggy Swap Chat #11 |
Name: Tom Cagle SE-OH (Zone 6a) Old, fat, and gardening in OH Coppice Feb 15, 2014 8:26 AM CST |
| Only for myself; if I plan on being on that site fewer than eight years, I'll use dimensional lumber (2 by 8 etc). If I think I'll be in residence eight or more years I'll use cinder blocks. Very often the first year or two all I use is a bed raised by double digging and lots or organic additions. Untreated-unpainted lumber has about a 6-8 year shelf life in garden. Or did for me in NY, VT, ME, NH, IL, OH. free for them in need: http://need4seed.freeforums.ne... |
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