Daylilies forum: Better to cut or cover?

Page 2 of 4 • 1 2 3 4
Views: 3082, Replies: 77 » Jump to the end
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Region: Alabama
Image
Seedfork
Feb 26, 2014 2:20 PM CST
tink3472
Thanks so much for that response.
The last paragraph is especially helpful to me. I had almost decided from what I was reading that I should avoid dormants, but I do have a few already and they seemed to me to be doing fine. So much of the literature makes it sound as if northern gardeners should not grow Evergreens and southern gardeners should not fool with dormants.
So the more I learn about things the less I know it appears, gardening is such an exact science... Hilarious!
Name: Michele
Cantonment, FL zone 8b
Seller of Garden Stuff Region: United States of America Pollen collector Dragonflies I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Region: Florida
Birds Butterflies Container Gardener Hummingbirder Garden Ideas: Level 2 Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle
Image
tink3472
Feb 26, 2014 5:03 PM CST
I LOVE dormants and have started buying dormants for the past 2 years to use in my hybridizing. I don't think I have had any dormants that did not do fine here. When I first got into daylilies I really had no idea about the foliage habits and bought what I liked so I had a mixture of all the foliage types and they all did well.
www.pensacoladaylilyclub.com
Name: Debra
Nashville, TN (Zone 7a)
Daylilies Cat Lover Butterflies Region: Tennessee Seed Starter
Image
shive1
Feb 27, 2014 2:53 PM CST
Seedfork - I do not mean the daylilies bloom at the same time each year. The weather really influences when daylily season starts. Freezes, and especially late freezes, can set dayliilies back a couple of weeks. The "normal" time my season usually starts is the last week of May. However, two years ago we had a really mild winter with few days where temps fell below 32. That year my daylilies started blooming the second week of May. Last year my daylilies were really late, with the first blooms starting June 5th. What I meant by my previous comment was those covered and those uncovered bloomed about the same time - not that they bloom the same time each year.

Debra
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Region: Alabama
Image
Seedfork
Feb 27, 2014 3:43 PM CST
shive1
My response may not have been worded very well, but I did understand that you were saying that the daylilies don't bloom at the same time each year, that it could be early or late depending on the weather. I was just surprised that the protected ones did not seem to bloom any sooner than the un-protected ones. I would have thought that especially during a year like last year that the protected ones would have been farther advanced and bloomed say by the end of May compared to the 5th of June for you,if not even earlier.
I am going to check on the daylilies tomorrow, the ones that were not covered and see if they suffered any damage tonight with the temp. dropping down into the twenties.
Looking back on my photos( this would just be close I did not actually make a note), but this is when the first daylily pictures appear, March 20th for 2012. April 16th was the first bloom in 2013. Too early I guess to tell yet if this will be an early or late blooming year, but it seems like it is going to be on the late side.
Name: Natalie
North Central Idaho (Zone 7a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Hummingbirder Frogs and Toads Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Native Plants and Wildflowers
Cottage Gardener Dog Lover Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Region: United States of America Echinacea Xeriscape
Image
Natalie
Feb 27, 2014 11:03 PM CST
Just thought I'd add in my useless two cents worth on bloom times! Hilarious! I recently moved to a warmer zone, but based on where I was before, which was zone 5a, I only had one year where I got any blooms before July 4th. So, I've always just relied on what happened in my garden. It didn't matter if daylilies were listed as extra early, early, mid, or whenever, they did not bloom until July. I have no idea what extra early actually means, since for me, it always meant the beginning of July. The same exact plant would bloom way earlier in Southern gardens. So, a lot of that has to do with where you live, and where the plant was hybridized to begin with. It's all out the window once it hits your own garden!

Another thing I wanted to comment on was that you had mentioned that some of the daylilies were only grown by a couple of people. That may be true, but many of us have never listed the ones that we own, so maybe a lot more of us own them. With so many thousands of registered daylilies, many aren't owned by anyone, since they have long died and gone away without ever being sold. So, you have to keep that in mind when you are trying to find info on a specific plant, and only relying on the database for the answer. Lots of us here have asked if anyone grows a specific daylily, just to see how it does for others, so please post those if you want. Everyone is so helpful with that information.

When I lived in a much colder zone, I was very hesitant to grow evergreens, since my flower beds pretty much had 3 feet of snow or more on them all winter long. So, I bought from someone local, who had success growing them first. They all did fantastic. Ya, they looked pretty bad when the snow melted, but they shaped right up and bloomed very well. They have a way of adjusting to the conditions that they are stuck in, which was good for me! They are really tough plants!
Natalie
Name: Mike
Hazel Crest, IL (Zone 5b)
There's a place of quiet rest !
Image
Hazelcrestmikeb
Feb 28, 2014 6:22 AM CST
Natalie, EE would just simply mean that it will bloom a week or more before your peak bloom which would be the mids. You are so right, temps do change a lot of blooming pattern from warm to cold climate. I have a few of Pat Stamile's EE that I got last year. John Hawkins, sev, Clear Mountain Morning, EV, and Quartz Rainbow, EV. He had good things to say about them that convinced me to try them here. We will see.
Thumb of 2014-02-28/Hazelcrestmikeb/007ca3 Quartz Rainbow

robinseeds.com
"Life as short as it is, is amazing isn't it ?" Michael Burton
"Be your best you".
Name: Mike
Hazel Crest, IL (Zone 5b)
There's a place of quiet rest !
Image
Hazelcrestmikeb
Feb 28, 2014 6:33 AM CST
This was my earliest last year and the last to bloom in the fall. Mind you the previous winter was nowhere as cold and snowy as this one. Time will tell this year. I will report.
Thumb of 2014-02-28/Hazelcrestmikeb/bd01a2 Blackeyed Stella



Thumb of 2014-02-28/Hazelcrestmikeb/15bc43 Blackeyed Stella clump
Date stamp is correct.

robinseeds.com
"Life as short as it is, is amazing isn't it ?" Michael Burton
"Be your best you".
Name: Mike
Hazel Crest, IL (Zone 5b)
There's a place of quiet rest !
Image
Hazelcrestmikeb
Feb 28, 2014 7:15 AM CST
I forgot to show this EE from Stamile that I got in 2012.
http://www.distinctly.on.ca/fl... scroll down to Lavender Heartthrob and read comments.

Thumb of 2014-02-28/Hazelcrestmikeb/3b044c Lavender Heartthrob


Thumb of 2014-02-28/Hazelcrestmikeb/eb7090 L H


Thumb of 2014-02-28/Hazelcrestmikeb/0f9c5a L H color and form varies at times.

robinseeds.com
"Life as short as it is, is amazing isn't it ?" Michael Burton
"Be your best you".
[Last edited by Hazelcrestmikeb - Mar 1, 2014 10:21 AM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #563310 (8)
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Region: Alabama
Image
Seedfork
Feb 28, 2014 8:08 AM CST
Natalie,
I do appreciate your two cents worth, it brought up some good points.
1, The fact that many people do not list the plants they own, it would help if they would.
2. The fact that many of us do not really understand the meaning of extra early and extra late.

Mike explained that extra early might bloom only a week before midseason, so can we assume that extra late would be only a week after midseason? I had just assumed a longer time period between the two terms! Do they grow such things as extra, extra early and extra, extra late? Hilarious!

So extra early should still bloom before extra late I would think no matter what zone you live in, am I correct in that, have you noticed that to be the case in your garden?
Name: Natalie
North Central Idaho (Zone 7a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Hummingbirder Frogs and Toads Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Native Plants and Wildflowers
Cottage Gardener Dog Lover Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Region: United States of America Echinacea Xeriscape
Image
Natalie
Feb 28, 2014 10:03 AM CST
In reality, it should be spread out more, and not just a week. You would also have to squeeze early in between extra early and mid, and that isn't going to all happen in one week normally. But, it depends on where you live and the weather conditions. An extra early may bloom in March for some people, but not until July for others. Because of that, I didn't pay any attention, really, to bloom times. Extra late was a little more important for me, but then some people run the risk of not getting many blooms because snow is flying by the time the plant is ready. I believe that the bloom times are all coming from the hybridizer, and what the plant does in their own garden. Once it leaves their garden and moves to a different part of the country, it can change due to the zone the plant moves to. Peak bloom was always later in July and then in August for me, but for many people, it was much earlier. It's really confusing!
Natalie
Name: Glen Ingram
Macleay Is, Qld, Australia (Zone 12a)
Bearded Dragon
Region: Australia Annuals Canning and food preservation Herbs Tropicals Foliage Fan
Plays in the sandbox Cactus and Succulents Garden Photography Hybridizer Composter Sedums
Image
Gleni
Feb 28, 2014 3:32 PM CST
I keep records of all blooming and range. At the moment I cannot make head or tail of the bloom times given. One day I will mull over them and see if there is any consistency from year to year.
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Region: Alabama
Image
Seedfork
Feb 28, 2014 4:53 PM CST
Thanks Natalie and Glenie, for the info on bloom times. So, let me sum up..
1. "Tender" is a general term, based on plant hardiness, which is a general term, which is based on growing zone, which is a general term, so these terms are pretty much useless.
2. Covering or protecting plants is pretty much wasted effort because the unprotected plants catch up with them anyhow.
3. Bloom times also are pretty much useless as a guide.
4. Evergreen, Semi-evergreen, and dormant are not totally reliable and can't be counted on as a guide to hardiness.
So the data base is pretty much based on... is there something in there I can count on? I know looking at the pictures I often can't tell I am looking at the same plant.
So I have learned a lot here in this thread, daylilies cannot be counted on to behave properly! Hilarious!
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Region: Alabama
Image
Seedfork
Feb 28, 2014 5:07 PM CST
I checked on my daylilies today. Unfortunately, I was so busy,I had to leave town, and did not get to check my daylilies and remove the covers until three thirty this afternoon. The temperature climbed up to around sixty degs. and it was a bright sunny day most of the day, with clouds moving in later in the afternoon. So, the daylilies got pretty hot under all those covers.
I did not notice any cold damage, on the covered ones or the not covered ones, but I was so busy removing covers I did not look all that close at the uncovered ones. Every time I removed a bucket or pot I could feel the heat rush out in my face.
The one thing I did notice however was that several of the covered plants had large numbers of whitish aphids all down in the centers of the plants.
So did my covering the plants cause an aphid invasion? Were they already there and the heat drew them out, did they just move in seeking shelter under the pots. Did I do harm to the plants by putting coverers over the plants and drawing in hundreds of aphids, or did I do good by exposing the aphids. I used the hose and my hand and washed off all the leaves on all the infested daylilies, so by exposing them and catching them early did I avoid a future plague of them? I guess only time will tell.
Anyhow, it appears that this time for sure, I would have been far better off to not have fooled with all that work. Now if it proves later on that forcing the aphids to make an early appearance and getting rid of them helped, I am wondering if this might actually be a method of early aphid control...wishful thinking I guess. Any opinions?
Name: Tina
Where the desert meets the sea (Zone 9b)
Daylilies Container Gardener Dog Lover Birds Enjoys or suffers hot summers Garden Ideas: Level 2
Image
chalyse
Feb 28, 2014 5:44 PM CST
Oh, aphids ... don't start me about aphids! LOL Grumbling

I do believe they like warmth, and they like it even better when the warmth is also a bit humid. As for getting rid of them ... mine seemed to have come in with a particular shipment (had never had them before) and have never left. By now I am resigned to the fact that having daylilies, and bringing in new varieties as I am helpless to stop doing, means I will learn to live with, and battle, aphids. Spraying them off or hand-removing, for me, means only a few hours before they are right back at it again. I've used the soapy water method to strip the outer shells and that has helped reduce the number of them.

But, they have a life cycle that is hard to interrupt. When you see the live little bugs, those are immature nymphs, and they will keep getting back to the plants unless they are killed. When you see the "popcorn-husk" form sprinkled on the leaves, they have already eaten, shed their shell, and turned into mature flying aphids.

Those adult flying aphids set microscopic eggs on garden foliage and, so, the cycle begins anew. The eggs can winter over, so even when it seems they hav been "frozen out" they will re-appear when it gets warm enough. From then on, every few weeks, there may be a new outbreak of the ones we see most easily, the nymphs.

I'm going to try this year to get ahold of some "aphid-repelling" plants to be companions. Supposedly they do not like "smelly" plants: onions, society garlic, etc. Also, I will try the advice to just constantly try to monitor when the nymphs are around, kill them off with soapy water, and try to derail most of them from getting to the adult egg-laying stage. Lastly, ladybugs can eat a lot of them, but it can be tricky to really get ladybugs to make a home in the garden. They need water and food (soft but dried fruit, like raisins, has been recommended). And, normally you can only buy hundreds of ladybugs at a time. I'm not able to feel comfortable about keeping most of them in the fridge and letting them out in small batches ... but that is mentioned as an option for maximizing their placement.

They do a _ton_ of damage eating away at the tender part of my daylilies. SIGH! Sticking tongue out
Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of old; seek what those of old sought. — Basho

Daylilies that thrive? click here! Thumbs up
[Last edited by chalyse - Feb 28, 2014 6:04 PM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #563639 (14)
Name: Natalie
North Central Idaho (Zone 7a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Hummingbirder Frogs and Toads Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Native Plants and Wildflowers
Cottage Gardener Dog Lover Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Region: United States of America Echinacea Xeriscape
Image
Natalie
Feb 28, 2014 5:47 PM CST
I don't think that any of those terms are useless. Not at all. I just think that there are variables. Some daylilies really are tender, and will not grow in very cold areas, or will grow for a while, and then die. Same goes for some of the dormants that are grown in a hot area. Many people in the North grow mostly dormants, and many people in the South grown mostly evergreens, even though many do well in both places. Some hybridizers living in a hot region will send their plants to a cold region, for evaluation, and some in a cold region will send theirs to a hot region, before introducing them. That way, they will have a better idea of how that plant will do in areas where it wasn't hybridized. For the longest time I would not buy a daylily that wasn't dormant, because of where I lived. When I decide to take a chance on evergreens, I bought them from someone local who had been growing the plant for a while. The ones I bought did really well, but the seller told me that she had problems with some of the other evergreens, and wouldn't recommend them because of that. Honesty is priceless, and saved me a fortune!

Bloom times are also not useless. If you are living in the same area as the hybridizer, you can expect pretty much the same bloom times. Areas that are in the same zone can expect close to the same bloom times. For everyone else, things can really vary. But, I don't think it is useless information!
Natalie
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Region: Alabama
Image
Seedfork
Feb 28, 2014 6:29 PM CST
Natalie,
I agree
I shall rephrase my statement. These things are of limited usefulness. Smiling
Name: Natalie
North Central Idaho (Zone 7a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Hummingbirder Frogs and Toads Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Native Plants and Wildflowers
Cottage Gardener Dog Lover Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Region: United States of America Echinacea Xeriscape
Image
Natalie
Feb 28, 2014 6:38 PM CST
I like to think of these things as guidelines that may or may not vary! Hilarious!
Natalie
Name: Char
Vermont (Zone 4b)
Daylilies Forum moderator Garden Ideas: Master Level Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle Region: Vermont
Dog Lover Hybridizer Enjoys or suffers cold winters Garden Photography Keeper of Poultry Organic Gardener
Image
Char
Mar 1, 2014 7:02 AM CST

Moderator

A good source for understanding the way hybridizers register for bloom season and other traits is the Registration Guidelines. http://www.daylilies.org/AHSre...

For calculating bloom season there is a guide which spaces out when a cultivar has it's FFO (First Flower Open) or begins blooming. From EE to VL is a stretch of approximately 8 - 9 weeks, a big difference if you are looking for cultivars to begin the season or end it.

From the Registration Guidelines.....
"* SEASON OF BLOOM
Bloom season begins with the first cultivar to bloom, and ends when the last cultivar begins blooming. Bloom season is a bell curve, with the largest number of daylilies commencing bloom in the middle of the season. This is identified as MID-SEASON or PEAK BLOOM. Other bloom season dates approximate a time frame on either side of mid-season. Do not consider rebloom when determining bloom season. Calculate when peak bloom is in your area and determine how your seedling falls into the bloom sequence.

Use the following symbols:
EE - Extra Early.
A very few daylilies commence bloom earlier then 2-4 weeks before mid-season. These are Extra Early.
E - Early.
Daylilies that commence bloom 2-4 weeks before mid-season are considered Early.
EM - Early Midseason.
Daylilies that commence bloom 1-2 weeks before mid-season are Early-Mid.
M - Midseason.
Daylilies that commence bloom at "peak bloom" time are Mid.
ML - Late Midseason.
Daylilies that commence bloom 1-2 weeks after mid-season bloom are Mid-Late.
L - Late.
Daylilies that commence bloom 2-4 weeks after mid-season are considered Late.
VL - Very Late.
A very few daylilies commence bloom later than 2-4 weeks after mid-season. These are Very Late."

I also record the FFO on the cultivars in the garden each year. Early morning I take a notebook out with me and as I'm walking write down each cultivar showing an FFO for that date. I use a notebook because I also might record other notes, branching, etc. Later in the evening I transfer the FFO dates to an excel sheet with all the registered cultivars for that year. There is a third record that I do during the winter that includes each cultivar's FFO with each year it has been in the garden. This tracks the FFO habit by years.
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Region: Alabama
Image
Seedfork
Mar 1, 2014 8:08 AM CST
Char
Thanks, great info.
But, as usual I am a little confused Confused
1) How long is the peak season or Midseason period? Also is it dependent upon the specific plants in your garden?
2) Does each individual registrant determine this info for the plant they are registering based on when it blooms in their garden? This would seem to cause several problems. It seems the ranking would depend on the plants already growing in your garden. If you specialized in extra early plants and all the plants you grew were "extra early" that would throw off the normal midseason timing, and if you specialized in extra late and all the plants you grew were" extra late bloomers" then that would also throw off the Midseason timing.

"Calculate when peak bloom is in your area and determine how your seedling falls into the bloom sequence." That sounds very exact, but just what does "Calculate" mean and how large is "Your area"?
Have I worded that so it makes any sense?
[Last edited by Seedfork - Mar 1, 2014 8:23 AM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #563901 (19)
Name: Mike
Hazel Crest, IL (Zone 5b)
There's a place of quiet rest !
Image
Hazelcrestmikeb
Mar 1, 2014 10:36 AM CST
Seedfork, you being in Z:8 will give you blooms much earlier than zone five. It is just simpler to go with the flow of the plants and keep records of what happens in your garden for future reference for yourself and anyone else in your zone. Each garden has its own micro climate ant the extra care that some of us give our plants will produce more output from our plants. There is so much variables to all of this. More water, mulch, soil amendments, fertilizer etc changes the cycle of every thing.
robinseeds.com
"Life as short as it is, is amazing isn't it ?" Michael Burton
"Be your best you".

Page 2 of 4 • 1 2 3 4

« Garden.org Homepage
« Back to the top
« Forums List
« Daylilies forum
You must first create a username and login before you can reply to this thread.

Member Login:

Username:

Password:

[ Join now ]

Today's site banner is by sunnyvalley and is called "Rose Mind Games"