Orchids forum: Our Orchid blooms in March 2014

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Name: Carol
Santa Ana, ca
Sunset zone 22, USDA zone 10 A.
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ctcarol
Mar 16, 2014 5:59 PM CST
Elaine, Even the Cubits database had problems with those issues and it would take someone with "Orchidwiz" or Ursula, who knows how to maneuver through Kews monocot list to keep it straight. Sounds like a full time job to me. Whistling
I am going to try the list though. I've been trying to figure out how to get pictures with my notebook , and this might help. I don't think I will be able to fit all the info like where purchased, from who, and growing conditions into the notes section though. Confused As soon as I get my taxes done, I'll play with that.
Name: Ursula
Fair Lawn NJ, zone 6b
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Ursula
Mar 16, 2014 6:16 PM CST

Moderator

Easiest would be to stick with species. And then - any unregistered hybrid is certainly a no go.
So here I looked at the Phragmipedium species page:
http://garden.org/plants/searc...

Now why do some have written Phrags, some have an extra Phragmipedium with species in brackets, Phragmipediun besseae is listed as Peruvian Lady Slipper (not really true).
My question is, why is this not streamlined at the simplest level?
This is only one genus I looked at so far. Sorry, not trying to be difficult.

edited to add - Elaine, you just ran into the same thing I commented on. One really would need to start streamlining and figure out if one really wishes to also add common names, which I would strongly discourage. It is plenty work just to get the latin names correctly, with synonyms. Get the Genus, species or hybrid, perhaps down to specific clonal names, and that's it.
[Last edited by Ursula - Mar 16, 2014 6:21 PM (+)]
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Name: Jim Hawk
Odessa, Florida (Zone 9b)
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hawkarica
Mar 16, 2014 6:53 PM CST
Just about as fast as you can get an orchid into the database, the name will change. I have 'Orchidwiz' and they are constantly sending me updates. When I first come home with a new orchid in hand, I run the name on the tag through 'Orchidwiz' and half the time it needs to be updated. I'm with Ursula, I would love to do it but I don't know where to start. Example: I love Schomburgkias and probably have fifty or more lovely photos of them. Then one day, not long ago, the entire genera was dissolved, half are now Laelias and the other half are Myrmecophilas. Let us not forget the poor Ascocenda which is now a Vanda. Not to mention that every hybrid resulting from a cross of these orchids now must be renamed. 'Orchidwiz' costs over $300 and I can see why. Trying to duplicate their programming work may be a bigger bite than you want to chew.

Jim
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Name: Elaine
Sarasota, Fl
The one constant in life is change
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dyzzypyxxy
Mar 16, 2014 7:12 PM CST
So right, Jim. I think that was where I was going with my comments. The orchid I was experimenting with was Encyclia Green Hornet, just because it was the most recent nice picture I had posted.

Well ! . . ! It seems nobody knows really what to call that one anyway. It might be a Prosthecea, it might be an Epidendrum, it might be a sibling cross of Enc. cochleata . . it goes on and on.

On a given day, can you go to OrchidWiz and get a name for sure of most of your orchids? If so, I'd say yes it's probably worth the cost. To you, but not to me that is. Rolling my eyes.
Elaine

"Success is stumbling from failure to failure with no loss of enthusiasm." –Winston Churchill
Name: Suzanne/Sue
Sebastopol, CA (Zone 9a)
Sunset Zone 15
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Calif_Sue
Mar 16, 2014 7:40 PM CST

Plants Admin

That is indeed confusing! I tried searching just for the cultivar name 'Green Hornet' but there is no entry for any orchid by that name yet. It would be wonderful to have someone knowledgeable to add these entries.

I think the orchid subject came up a few times with Dave and he was at a loss as to how to proceed, as you said, it's quite confusing. One thing he has added to the database is the ability to add synonyms and the addition to be able to add "Also Sold As" so perhaps those changing names could be added. We do need as much help as possible and anyone can post suggestions in the Plant Database forum http://garden.org/forums/view/... to help Dave to make the database something useful to all the orchid lovers.
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Name: Ken Ramsey
Vero Beach, FL (Zone 10a)
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drdawg
Mar 16, 2014 8:11 PM CST
I can assure you, entering orchids into the ATP data base is often a nightmare. ATP does not accept, as far as I can tell, any orchid not registered with the International Orchid Register. How many hybrids are out there, that are for sale and the parentage is known, that has not yet been registered or the IOR has not gotten around to registering it? And then, there are the hybrids. How do you register the 100,000 hybrids out there. ATP recognizes species but not grix. The vast majority of orchids are now hybrids, but it appears there is no way to enter them in our database. I started entering the orchids I had into the database two years ago and then quickly gave up. I have now decided that my orchid plants needed to be in the database and thus tried again. Same ole, same ole.
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Name: Kathy
Western MA

Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Dog Lover Region: Northeast US Orchids Irises
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boojum
Mar 16, 2014 10:30 PM CST
I ran the cubits database and gave Dave permission to move it but he couldn't so it still sits in the Orchid Obsession cubit. http://cubits.org/orchids/db/d...
It was not a full time job and I have OrchidWiz. We all decided to move here but the database couldn't go with us. I admit it was upsetting to see our work on it go to waste. I knew that orchids were only one type of plant of many plants represented on ATP and the database wouldn't fit the structure. So I started my own website dedicated to orchids and made a decision to look up orchids on other databases of which there are many. I believe that most new members come to ATP through the database (or did when I was moderator) so I don't think there is an incentive to change the way it is. Maybe if you talk as a group....best of luck with this guys.
[Last edited by boojum - Mar 16, 2014 10:48 PM (+)]
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Name: Ken Ramsey
Vero Beach, FL (Zone 10a)
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drdawg
Mar 17, 2014 6:43 AM CST
I posted quite a bit on COL but haven't been on that site in perhaps a couple of months. It was a fun site and I enjoyed it.
drdawg (Ken Ramsey) - Tropical Plants & More
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I don't have gray hair, I have wisdom-highlights. I must be very wise.
Name: Ursula
Fair Lawn NJ, zone 6b
Plumerias Orchids Cactus and Succulents Region: New Jersey Region: Pennsylvania Native Plants and Wildflowers
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Ursula
Mar 17, 2014 7:19 AM CST

Moderator

But, looking at the latest page ( see Kathy's link) of the Cubit's Database - the latest additions were made surely waaayyyyy after Cubits was actively supported by Kathy……

I find that a google search will turn up the Orchids posted into this thread and other forums. If it exists, I can usually track it through google.
For species, there is always orchidspecies.com.
There is the RHS to check hybrids.
http://apps.rhs.org.uk/horticu...
And looking up accepted names and synonyms is easily done through the Kew database:
http://apps.kew.org/wcsp/prepa...
and for the fun of it use Room genealogy to look up parentage of many orchids in one look!
http://www.orchid.or.jp/orchid...

And those of you ( not me) owning OrchidWiz, you have a great tool.
I just don't know if it is truly worth the tremendous effort to essentially duplicate what is out there.
[Last edited by Ursula - Mar 17, 2014 7:43 AM (+)]
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Name: Ursula
Fair Lawn NJ, zone 6b
Plumerias Orchids Cactus and Succulents Region: New Jersey Region: Pennsylvania Native Plants and Wildflowers
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Ursula
Mar 17, 2014 7:24 AM CST

Moderator

Just checked Orchidwiz, it still needs to run on a PC. I was hoping that it now can be used on a Mac. Too bad.
Name: Ursula
Fair Lawn NJ, zone 6b
Plumerias Orchids Cactus and Succulents Region: New Jersey Region: Pennsylvania Native Plants and Wildflowers
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Ursula
Mar 17, 2014 8:23 AM CST

Moderator

@Calif_Sue, to go back to the "Encyclia 'Green Hornet'".
see here as an example
http://apps.rhs.org.uk/horticu...
it is a Prosthechea, and the Green Hornet is the grex name, not the Cultivar name. (The RHS does not list Cultivar/Clonal names which are for awards only.)
[Last edited by Ursula - Mar 17, 2014 8:24 AM (+)]
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Name: Ken Ramsey
Vero Beach, FL (Zone 10a)
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drdawg
Mar 17, 2014 9:04 AM CST
Even using the RHS site can be very difficult, since many of the orchids we have, that we think are properly labeled (from the grower/hybridizer), are incorrect. Many of the genera have been changed, for example Brassolaeliocattleya to Rhyncholaeliocattleya and Schombrugkia to Myrmecophila, so IF you don't know this in advance, your search will go no where. Once you do know the proper genus, and that plant is brought up in your search, it is THEN seen that the plant has that old-genera name. Perhaps there is a way around this dilemma, but if so, I have not found it. I know I am not the sharpest tack around! *Blush*
drdawg (Ken Ramsey) - Tropical Plants & More
http://www.tropicalplantsandmo...
I don't have gray hair, I have wisdom-highlights. I must be very wise.
Name: Ursula
Fair Lawn NJ, zone 6b
Plumerias Orchids Cactus and Succulents Region: New Jersey Region: Pennsylvania Native Plants and Wildflowers
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Ursula
Mar 17, 2014 9:19 AM CST

Moderator

Ken, there IS a way around this dilemma:
When you do a search, leave out the genus name, just put the epithet into the appropriate line, that's all.
Of course when you get a lot of hits, you need to narrow it down to the new genus it might now be. That's how I do it and if it is registered, I will find it that way.
In my example just this morning, I only typed in Green Hornet and then it became obvious from the choices given.
Name: Suzanne/Sue
Sebastopol, CA (Zone 9a)
Sunset Zone 15
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Calif_Sue
Mar 17, 2014 9:45 AM CST

Plants Admin

See Ursula, I would be of no help with an orchid database, I don't know the difference between a cultivar name and grew name. Blinking
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Name: Ursula
Fair Lawn NJ, zone 6b
Plumerias Orchids Cactus and Succulents Region: New Jersey Region: Pennsylvania Native Plants and Wildflowers
Greenhouse Ponds Keeper of Koi Forum moderator Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Adeniums
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Ursula
Mar 17, 2014 9:56 AM CST

Moderator

Grex. Smiling
Sue, but look at the thousands of other plants you know!! Thumbs up
Name: Ken Ramsey
Vero Beach, FL (Zone 10a)
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drdawg
Mar 17, 2014 10:11 AM CST
OK, thanks Ursula. I never knew I could do that. Now, how do I find the time to look up all I have, and I have lots of varieties that would have to be checked. I'm talking about 50-75 varieties and that may be understated.

This is the time of year that is most busy for me. I am re-potting, starting to move things around for hundreds of plants to go outside, potting up dozens of plumeria that have been dormant, starting vegetable seeds, updating my website, making new custom, laminated labels, preparing for an upcoming Garden Expo - WHEW - it makes me tired just thinking about all this, and those are just major things occurring now.
drdawg (Ken Ramsey) - Tropical Plants & More
http://www.tropicalplantsandmo...
I don't have gray hair, I have wisdom-highlights. I must be very wise.
Name: Jim Hawk
Odessa, Florida (Zone 9b)
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hawkarica
Mar 17, 2014 10:26 AM CST
I coughed up the money for 'Orchidwiz' because I needed the correct name and the parentage in order to enter my orchids for judging. Google was a hit and miss proposition. I will happily look up orchids for my friends here.

Ursula's comments about leaving out the genus name during a search is a good one and works on Orchidwiz too. It took me a few days to learn that trick.

It started to sprinkle about 10:00 this morning and it has now turned into a gully washer with thunder. We have enjoyed abundant and timely rain during our supposed dry season. Someone send a life jacket. Sticking tongue out

Jim
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Name: Ken Ramsey
Vero Beach, FL (Zone 10a)
Tropical Plants & More
Orchids Greenhouse Vegetable Grower Ferns Region: United States of America Hummingbirder
Composter Bromeliad Master Gardener: Mississippi Cat Lover Tropicals Plumerias
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drdawg
Mar 17, 2014 10:30 AM CST
Funny, Jim. We average about 65" of rain here and I know you probably get about the same (more during hurricane years).

I will have to remember to contact you with nomenclature. Just what you needed, huh? Something more to do. Sticking tongue out
drdawg (Ken Ramsey) - Tropical Plants & More
http://www.tropicalplantsandmo...
I don't have gray hair, I have wisdom-highlights. I must be very wise.
Name: Ursula
Fair Lawn NJ, zone 6b
Plumerias Orchids Cactus and Succulents Region: New Jersey Region: Pennsylvania Native Plants and Wildflowers
Greenhouse Ponds Keeper of Koi Forum moderator Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Adeniums
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Ursula
Mar 17, 2014 10:39 AM CST

Moderator

Ken, for our purpose here I myself wouldn't dream of looking up every NEW name. I think it would be unpractical/difficult to communicate here on a forum comprised by happy hobbyists using every new name, registered with the RHS. It is simply confusing? Besides my tongue/keyboard probably has trouble with many of the new names without constantly checking the proper spelling.
My favorite example is the Iwanagaara Appleblossom, which had been re-named to Jackfowlieara Appleblossom…. Rolling my eyes.

But, as mentioned elsewhere just now, I strongly believe that an Orchid Database should follow the scientific name/latest registered entry at RHS/Kew. Which is why I am not exactly jumping in to help.
[Last edited by Ursula - Mar 17, 2014 10:41 AM (+)]
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Name: Elaine
Sarasota, Fl
The one constant in life is change
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dyzzypyxxy
Mar 17, 2014 11:30 AM CST
Don't blame you a bit, Ursula. It sounds like a huge and never-ending task c/w headaches. From now on if I have a nice picture I'll make one effort to put it into the database, then let it go.

As I said above, the correct name isn't a big deal for most of us on this forum including me, as I'm not showing or selling orchids. More important for Ken and Jim for those reasons.

Jim it is just starting to spit and rumble here and I moved all the 'chids so they will get a good 'natural' watering. Hope we get a gully washer too. Those gullies need washing, and my cistern needs recharging. It's such a relief to have all that oak tree pollen washed off everything for a day or two at least! I'm not allergic, but even my eyes and nose have been itching lately.

Forgot to add my new bloomer today, a little NoID phal that was another Lowe's rescue. This is its 3rd round of bloom! Not bad for a $3 plant.

Thumb of 2014-03-17/dyzzypyxxy/28584f

Elaine

"Success is stumbling from failure to failure with no loss of enthusiasm." –Winston Churchill
[Last edited by dyzzypyxxy - Mar 17, 2014 11:32 AM (+)]
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