Daylilies forum: Winter Loss

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Name: James
South Bend, IN (Zone 5b)
Hostas Enjoys or suffers cold winters Birds Seed Starter Annuals Region: Indiana
Region: United States of America Dog Lover Daylilies Container Gardener Plant and/or Seed Trader
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JWWC
Apr 9, 2014 11:15 AM CST
As anyone who lives north of Miami is aware, this has been a winter that just refuses to back down. I wanted to start this thread partially as a way to give people an idea of what survived where, but also because I was looking for input both from sellers and other buyers about how they handle losses in a situation like this.

I was pretty optimistic previously about the state of my garden. I still am but I definitely have some losses, and some other plants that I am concerned about. I also have a great number that lost fans.

Thus far, I have completely lost:

TWENTY ONE (p)
RASPBERRY MOUNTAIN (p)
SMALL WORLD OPTICAL ILLUSION (p)
MADAGASCAR MARTY (p)
WHALE TAILS (p)
BOB CHARMAN
ZOE ALLEGRA
DINNER TALK - pretty sure
PURPLE PASHMINA - pretty sure



I lost fans on:

NEW PARADIGM
BLUEGRASS MUSIC
WINNER'S TROPHY
CAN'T TOUCH THIS
BUDDY'S TOOTHY (p) - may lose all of this one.
RUFFLED PINK PERFECTION
LILLIAN'S LIES AND ALIBIS
MORT MORSS
SEA OF CORTEZ
HANDWRITING ON THE WALL
HOLY GUACAMOLE
DRAGONFLY DAWN - May have lost this one.

Well, I can report that LITTLE MENEHUNE is a gonner. I thought I could save a couple fans out of the clump but they were too far gone already. I also lost a seedling from Tom Maddox, BINDERS OF WOMEN (it's dormant but showing nothing at this point) and I am pretty sure that the entire clump of VIVID BUTTERFLY I won from Nicole DiVito is toast.

Lost a few seedlings out of HOOKED X DR. STUMP as well.

I will continue to update this as the spring grinds on and I know for certain.

To address the second question - some of these were new additions to my garden. On the one hand I feel like I did everything I should to get them through the winter but on the other hand this was a nasty winter and I am sometimes pushing the limits with evergreens and semi-evergreens. I'm curious what others think about replacements in a situation like this?
[Last edited by JWWC - Apr 13, 2014 5:35 PM (+)]
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Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Region: Alabama Composter Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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Seedfork
Apr 9, 2014 12:04 PM CST
Just my opinion, but the replacement issue is something that should be settled up front before the need arises. If everyone understands before hand what the policy is then there are less chances of hurt feelings. I have found (in other areas) than an unmentioned replacement policy is usually a "no replacement policy". I know big box stores take a lot of flack, but I have seen people return plants to Lowe's that were obviously and admittedly not the fault of Lowe's but of the customer, yet they took care of the refund or replacement. I heard Dan Hanson say he would work with anyone for as long as they owned a plant bought from him if they thought it had not do as well as expected. So I am sure there are many vendors who will gladly replace plants and others who will totally refuse to work with the customer, I think it will just come down to buyer beware.
Name: Maurice
Grey County, Ontario (Zone 4b)
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admmad
Apr 9, 2014 12:10 PM CST
Were the new additions that were lost planted in the spring or later in the year?

Were the fans that were lost on plants that were not entirely lost, smaller immature fans or larger mature fans?

In terms of replacements - if the seller does not indicate that they have a replacement policy I have also found that usually means they will not replace plants.
Maurice
Name: shirlee
southeast (Zone 6b)
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mistyfog
Apr 9, 2014 12:24 PM CST
I didn't lose any whole plants, but did lose some fans of
mature clumps.

Fan Loss:
Across the Universe EV
Dan's Paradise Pink EV
Rainbow Frost EV
Mort Morss SEV

Edited to add these 4 entries.
Hog Heaven
Happy Happy
Celestial Shores
And some seedlings that I had picked out to keep.

Mostly folks talk about plants sinking with the crown too far below the soil causing
problems. I think that may be the case of mostly those in pots. I don't have any in pots
so I am not familiar with this.

What happens here is some of the mature clumps planted in the ground start to rise above the soil line.
The entire plant creates a mound, and they have shorter roots. I was amazed by how easy it was to lift
the whole clump out of its resting place. Other cultivars are firmly entrenched with roots about a
foot long.

I think when the entire plant rises up in this fashion, they are more exposed to the
dangers of below freezing temperatures.

This is simply an observation when dividing some mature clumps this spring.
Growing daylilies continues to be a learning experience, and probably always will be.

Edited for clarity:
Concerning the replacement issue, I personally would expect a refund if plants were
not available from the seller due to loss or other reasons, especially when no replacement guidelines
are noted. Some will accept substitutions, others will not. As a buyer, I would not expect
plants that do not survive the winter in my garden to be replaced by the seller.
[Last edited by mistyfog - Apr 12, 2014 6:20 PM (+)]
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Iowa (Zone 4b)
pinkpurple
Apr 9, 2014 12:34 PM CST
I haven't cleaned all the beds yet, so not sure about everything. So far I could not find those:
Christopher Moody
Ruffled Lemon Piping
Cat Dancer (though I think I saw a liiiiitle green something there - could be a weed :))
Also I think I lost Heartbeats of Heaven (I got a small fan cheaply and it survived one winter but still no sign this year) and Bluegrass Memories (also survived 2013 winter).

What is (p)?

I misunderstood about replacements. I thought you meant replacements as in giving them a second chance. Last year I lost about 20, but decided to replace 3. Well, the "funny" thing is, two of those do not have visible green going on (but I haven't cleaned that bed yet).
PS. I am in z4, will fill the profile as soon as I figure out how to do it
Name: Kim W
Md (Zone 6a)
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kimkats
Apr 9, 2014 1:20 PM CST
So far I have only lost Veined Velociraptor, but it was in a pot, so that is probably why it decided to rot. The pot was upright with all this years snow and ice, melting into it. I should have laid it on its side, to avoid rot.
It's my cats world, I'm just here to open the cans.
Name: Fred Manning
Lillian Alabama

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spunky1
Apr 9, 2014 1:40 PM CST
As most of you know, I line out everything in pots each September and October that I am going to sell over the winter on the lily auction. This winter I lost lots of 2012 and 2013 potted daylilies due to the harsh winter. A lot of these were sold on the auction and the buyers will receive a full refund in instead of the plant. I will not ask the people that I bought the daylilies from for any refund, it's not there fault that potted daylilies can't survive in the kind of weather we had this winter. I lost nothing planted in the ground or boxes, only in the pots.
Some are coming back with lots of fans, will be interesting to see
how long it takes to become mature fans.
Thumb of 2014-04-09/spunky1/f0cccd

Name: James
South Bend, IN (Zone 5b)
Hostas Enjoys or suffers cold winters Birds Seed Starter Annuals Region: Indiana
Region: United States of America Dog Lover Daylilies Container Gardener Plant and/or Seed Trader
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JWWC
Apr 9, 2014 1:59 PM CST
admmad said:Were the new additions that were lost planted in the spring or later in the year?

Were the fans that were lost on plants that were not entirely lost, smaller immature fans or larger mature fans?

In terms of replacements - if the seller does not indicate that they have a replacement policy I have also found that usually means they will not replace plants.


The plants were planted in the late summer or early fall. Nothing was planted later than the first week of September if memory serves, I would have to double check to make sure.

Plants that lost fans were mature. Several of them (and I am not addressing the replacement issue with these) have been in my garden for several years.

I agree about replacements. The LA however, has a policy that sellers must abide by. I am mostly curious because there was a lot that was out of everyone's control this year - as such I feel like it is kind of a mixed bag with regards to replacing it since the weather is out of their control as well.
Name: James
South Bend, IN (Zone 5b)
Hostas Enjoys or suffers cold winters Birds Seed Starter Annuals Region: Indiana
Region: United States of America Dog Lover Daylilies Container Gardener Plant and/or Seed Trader
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JWWC
Apr 9, 2014 2:01 PM CST
pinkpurple said:

What is (p)?


Sorry - my notation for what was potted.
Name: James
South Bend, IN (Zone 5b)
Hostas Enjoys or suffers cold winters Birds Seed Starter Annuals Region: Indiana
Region: United States of America Dog Lover Daylilies Container Gardener Plant and/or Seed Trader
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JWWC
Apr 9, 2014 2:03 PM CST
spunky1 said:I will not ask the people that I bought the daylilies from for any refund, it's not there fault that potted daylilies can't survive in the kind of weather we had this winter.



This is a large part of what I am feeling as well. Yes it was terrible but it's a risk we take, especially with more tender varieties.
Name: James
South Bend, IN (Zone 5b)
Hostas Enjoys or suffers cold winters Birds Seed Starter Annuals Region: Indiana
Region: United States of America Dog Lover Daylilies Container Gardener Plant and/or Seed Trader
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JWWC
Apr 9, 2014 5:16 PM CST
I wanted to add - I went digging through some additional pots and I was surprised how much moisture they were holding. Definitely need to move them out of the ProMix they are in, or cut that with some pine bark mulch or something.
Name: Jan
Hustisford, WI
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Cat Lover Daylilies Dog Lover Irises Region: United States of America
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philljm
Apr 9, 2014 6:07 PM CST
It's too early for me to tell what I have lost. I have a lot that aren't showing any signs of life yet, but with the warmer temps this week I am starting to see some greening up. I am going to keep crossing my fingers and hoping.

It does look like I have had a lot of loss in my iris beds though. Most of these were several years old.

I won't ask for any replacements. I often push zones and this winter was amazingly frigid. That is no ones fault, neither mine nor the seller.

The big box stores I believe have an automatic replacement guarantee within 1 year. That is an advantage when purchasing from them
Name: Michele
Cantonment, FL zone 8b
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tink3472
Apr 9, 2014 6:36 PM CST
I'm in the same boat with Fred Blinking I lost about 50% of my potted plants from the weather. I will say that part of the issue was I got a lot of mine divided and potted in November because of lack of time and I was trying to wait until it cooled off more since we are still pretty hot in Sept and Oct here. Well, needless to say we got freezes in November so the plants did not have time to re-establish themselves before it got really cold.

I only lost a few in the beds from the freezes but those were really small anyway and couldn't handle the freeze. I actually have lost more in my beds because I have found that my ph is really low. It's not the whole bed just in spots which is strange. If you look at my hybridizing area you will see yellowed planted sporadically in the beds. What's weird is the plant right next to it is green as can be and the ph is perfect and then there may one that the ph is a little too high soooooo this is making it harder for me to correct the issue because I am having to check each and every plants area (which is a lot) and I am going to have to raise and lower in the same beds. I already limed some areas and it has helped but some it has not yet so I will do it again.
[url=www.pensacoladaylilyclub.com]www.pensacoladaylilyclub.com[/url]
Name: Glen Ingram
Macleay Is, Qld, Australia (Zone 12a)
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Gleni
Apr 9, 2014 6:39 PM CST
James that is a terrible loss. My heart goes out to you. I would pass out if it happened to me.
Name: Maurice
Grey County, Ontario (Zone 4b)
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admmad
Apr 9, 2014 7:37 PM CST
JWWC wrote:
The plants were planted in the late summer or early fall. Nothing was planted later than the first week of September if memory serves, I would have to double check to make sure.

Plants that lost fans were mature. Several of them ... have been in my garden for several years.


Being in Zone 4 my winters are quite long and severe - snow does not disappear until mid April and the last killing frost can be in early June. To be certain that my daylilies survive their first winter I plant new arrivals before the end of June.

Although a cultivar may be mature in that it has been in the garden for several years and has bloomed on multiple scapes, not all the fans in the clump are necessarily mature or the same size. I have a handful of cultivars that are not completely hardy in my conditions. They produce new fans but those fans do not usually grow large enough during their first growing season to successfully survive their first winters. It tends to be younger, smaller fans that do not make it through their first winter in those cases where hardiness is borderline. That is often the case for evergreens here. Nearly all evergreens will do fine as long as they are planted or divided in the spring. Some will be decimated if they are disturbed any later than June.
Maurice
Name: Arlene
Ponce Inlet, FL (Zone 9a)
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florange
Apr 10, 2014 6:15 AM CST
I'm amazed, reading this thread, just how high the losses will be for some people. As usual, things are different here in Central FL. My planting window is from late Oct. to Dec. 31. If plants are in the ground later than that, they can't develop enough roots to survive the heat that often comes on suddenly. Ditto the comments above on small fans. They just don't have the roots to survive that blast of heat. We are getting a break this year--spring is really, really late and cool and the daylilies are loving it.
Name: Cynthia (Cindy)
Melvindale, Mi (Zone 5b)
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Hemlady
Apr 10, 2014 6:27 AM CST
Like Jan said, it is too early here yet to determine plant loss. I do see a few with some green but the majority are still sleeping.
Lighthouse Gardens
Name: Mike
Hazel Crest, IL (Zone 5b)
There's a place of quiet rest !
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Hazelcrestmikeb
Apr 10, 2014 7:21 AM CST
I am in the same boat with Jan and Hemlady. I don't keep any daylily in small pots. Everything go into the ground. I have several in big pots that are doing ok. I should have more to comment on within the next couple weeks.
Thumb of 2014-04-10/Hazelcrestmikeb/083a16
The multitude of scapes in the background is two clumps of Entrapment. One was relocated somewhere else to make room for White House Lady that needed a better location due to being shaded by a hibiscus.

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Name: Kim W
Md (Zone 6a)
More daylilies!!!!
Charter ATP Member Pollen collector I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Cat Lover Daylilies Plant and/or Seed Trader
Hostas Echinacea Garden Art Region: Northeast US Region: United States of America
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kimkats
Apr 10, 2014 10:35 AM CST
I'll have to add Crazy Ivan to my list of goners. It was also in a pot. It was fine a week ago, but I guess it too succumbed to rot. I made sure to pull any remaining leaves out of all my pots. They were keeping too much moisture in, now that it appears to be spring here. I also lost Tipper, She was in the ground but not looking so hot last fall as a single fan. So really not surprising that she is didn't make it. It also looks like I have lost several of my buddleia. I'm not finding any green under the bark in the cambium layer when I cut them back. Crying I'm hoping they might send up from the roots.
It's my cats world, I'm just here to open the cans.
Name: Vickie
Elberfeld, Indiana, USA (Zone 6b)
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blue23rose
Apr 10, 2014 11:48 AM CST
I think I lost Wolf Eyes and Marilyn Bradner. All the others have popped up, but these two show no signs of life yet. Some others that were single or double fans still look like they took a big hit. They are withered with a whitish-greenish color, not the pretty healthy green at all. Time will tell.
Vickie
May all your weeds be wildflowers. ~Author Unknown

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