Sempervivum and Jovibarba forum: Sempervivum Laggeri

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Name: Chris
Ripon, Wisconsin
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Sages Forum moderator Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Database Moderator
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goldfinch4
May 3, 2014 8:18 AM CST

Moderator

In our database is a semp named 'Laggen' Hen and Chicks (Sempervivum arachnoideum 'Laggen')

I think this is an incorrect name. Looks like the picture in our database came from Perennial Obsession, who has now changed the name on their website to 'Laggeri' http://perennialobsessions.com/?s=Laggeri

SMG also has a plant shown as 'Laggeri' http://www.smgsucculents.com/Sempervivum%20Laggeri

I don't think the plants look anything alike, but it could just be pictures from different seasons. At any rate, database entry needs correcting.

Lynn said the full name should be Sempervivum arachnoideum var. tomentosum (laggeri) and she is going to Perennial Obsessions this weekend and will get some pictures for us.

@banker07 - do you think these are the same plants?
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Name: Peter Dieckmann
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banker07
May 3, 2014 12:19 PM CST
Chris this is how S. arachnoideum ssp. tomentosum (laggeri) should look like:

http://www.sempervivum-liste.de/Sempervivum/arachnoideum%20s...

both plants at SMG and Perennial Obsession don't look like the real plant;

in older archives we found a S. 'Laggeri' - a cultivar named Laggeri which should be breeded by Sandy Mac Pherson (like SMG write at their plant)?!? - but also this cultivar should be a S. arachnoideum ssp. tomentosum-cultivar and it doesn't look like one;

S. arachnoideum ssp. tomentosum has a lot of web and never lose it around the year!!

Peter
[url=www.sempervivum-liste.de]www.sempervivum-liste.de[/url]
[url=www.hauswurze.de]www.hauswurze.de[/url]
Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level Sempervivums
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valleylynn
May 4, 2014 7:42 AM CST

Moderator

I agree, the two plants are definitely the not same plant.

The photos that Janice has posted looks different than your photos Peter. But I have to say, her growing conditions are quite unique. The month that photo was taken she would have had relatively high temperatures and very high humidity for growing conditions and a lot of moisture in the ground. In my experience that can cause the webbing to shorten up and detach.
I have some of my arachnoideum that will do that depending on the time of year and conditions at the time.

I'll see if I can get photos of PO's plant. Maybe bring one home and grow it for a bit.
Name: Greg Colucci
Seattle WA (Zone 8b)
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gg5
May 4, 2014 10:48 PM CST
Chris thanks for asking this question, I've wondered and just assumed that Laggen, was a different plant! Thumbs up I tip my hat to you. Missed you over the weekend Smiling
Plants bring me peace and calm, more of what we all need Smiling
Name: Chris
Ripon, Wisconsin
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Sages Forum moderator Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Database Moderator
Seller of Garden Stuff I sent a postcard to Randy! Sempervivums Sedums Region: Wisconsin Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle
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goldfinch4
May 5, 2014 2:39 AM CST

Moderator

Thanks everyone for the input. Will be waiting hear more from Lynn's experiment and pictures.
Cubits Store: The Sempervivum Patch - plants, containers, accessories!
Also stop by Timber Treasures and Garden Buddies on Cubits
Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level Sempervivums
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valleylynn
May 5, 2014 7:52 AM CST

Moderator

I will try to get some photos this evening when I get home.
Name: Patty
Washington State (Zone 8b)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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Patty
May 5, 2014 11:04 AM CST
I got Laggeri from Cynda this weekend ~ here's a pic
Thumb of 2014-05-05/Patty/288c48

Patty 🌺
Name: Peter Dieckmann
Germany
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banker07
May 5, 2014 12:20 PM CST
Hi Patty;

it is surely a very nice plant - but it is no S. arachnoideum;

there is a lot of long cilia - but no real web;

so it can't be neither the cultivar S. 'Laggeri' from Sandy Mac Pherson nor the natural form S.arachnoideum ssp. tomentosum (laggeri);

Peter
[url=www.sempervivum-liste.de]www.sempervivum-liste.de[/url]
[url=www.hauswurze.de]www.hauswurze.de[/url]
[Last edited by banker07 - May 5, 2014 12:22 PM (+)]
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Name: Greg Colucci
Seattle WA (Zone 8b)
Sempervivums Sedums Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Cactus and Succulents Container Gardener Garden Ideas: Level 1
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gg5
May 5, 2014 1:16 PM CST
@goldfinch4 I bought mine from Perennial Obsessions also, but I feel like mine does have some webbing, I need to take a photo and double check that!! It is a lovely semp, and I'm fine to make it a NOID...we'll wait for final word! Thumbs up
Thanks Peter for your input also! I tip my hat to you.
Plants bring me peace and calm, more of what we all need Smiling
Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level Sempervivums
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valleylynn
May 6, 2014 8:12 AM CST

Moderator

I didn't get home until around 9:00 last night, we went out to dinner before Marilyn leaves today.
I will contact Cynda and we will go from there. We definitely need to get this entry fixed.
Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level Sempervivums
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valleylynn
May 6, 2014 8:14 AM CST

Moderator

Meanwhile I have deleted the photos in the database entry for Laggeri.
Name: Greg Colucci
Seattle WA (Zone 8b)
Sempervivums Sedums Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Cactus and Succulents Container Gardener Garden Ideas: Level 1
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gg5
May 6, 2014 3:42 PM CST
I went to my yard today and sure enough no webbing...I'll remove this from my list...it really is a lovely new NOID! :P Whistling
Plants bring me peace and calm, more of what we all need Smiling
Name: Greg Colucci
Seattle WA (Zone 8b)
Sempervivums Sedums Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Cactus and Succulents Container Gardener Garden Ideas: Level 1
Garden Art Birds Dog Lover Cat Lover Region: Pacific Northwest Hummingbirder
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gg5
May 6, 2014 3:50 PM CST
The plant I received from Cynda looks just like what Patty's photo shows...and to me it does look like SMG's but maybe under different lighting and different season. It's Cynda's photo on her website that doesn't look the same as these other plants, in my opinion.
@banker07 @valleylynn @goldfinch4
Peter here is a photo of my arach x Nevadense which doesn't have much webbing, and yet is considered an arachnoideum. Thumb of 2014-05-06/gg5/60d409
How do we know for sure that 'Laggeri' looks the way you suggest if you don't have a photo of it?
Do you know anyone with this plant?? I don't want to be too quick to dismiss this as her plant! Especially since I have this other arachnoideum which has far less webbing than other arachs...I'm just curious, since I'd hate to incorrectly dismiss this plant!!


Plants bring me peace and calm, more of what we all need Smiling
[Last edited by gg5 - May 6, 2014 3:59 PM (+)]
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Name: Chris
Ripon, Wisconsin
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Sages Forum moderator Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Database Moderator
Seller of Garden Stuff I sent a postcard to Randy! Sempervivums Sedums Region: Wisconsin Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle
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goldfinch4
May 6, 2014 3:51 PM CST

Moderator

I agree that they look to be the same plant Greg. (SMG & Cynda's)
Cubits Store: The Sempervivum Patch - plants, containers, accessories!
Also stop by Timber Treasures and Garden Buddies on Cubits
Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level Sempervivums
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valleylynn
May 6, 2014 7:43 PM CST

Moderator

Here is a link to a photo of it on Peter's site. http://sempervivum-liste.de/Sempervivum/arachnoideum%20ssp.%...
It is also on Horst's site.
Name: Greg Colucci
Seattle WA (Zone 8b)
Sempervivums Sedums Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Cactus and Succulents Container Gardener Garden Ideas: Level 1
Garden Art Birds Dog Lover Cat Lover Region: Pacific Northwest Hummingbirder
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gg5
May 6, 2014 8:28 PM CST
OK, thank you Lynn! I just didn't want to "give up on it" too soon! Rolling on the floor laughing
Plants bring me peace and calm, more of what we all need Smiling
Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level Sempervivums
Image
valleylynn
May 6, 2014 8:33 PM CST

Moderator

It definitely has lots of webbing.
Name: Greg Colucci
Seattle WA (Zone 8b)
Sempervivums Sedums Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Cactus and Succulents Container Gardener Garden Ideas: Level 1
Garden Art Birds Dog Lover Cat Lover Region: Pacific Northwest Hummingbirder
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gg5
May 6, 2014 8:35 PM CST
Yes for sure! But as you saw, my Nevadense doesn't which is why I was curious! Thank you Lynn! Thumbs up
Plants bring me peace and calm, more of what we all need Smiling
Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level Sempervivums
Image
valleylynn
May 6, 2014 8:41 PM CST

Moderator

Thumbs up
Name: Peter Dieckmann
Germany
Region: Europe Sempervivums Container Gardener Hibiscus Bee Lover Butterflies
Dragonflies Birds Hummingbirder Frogs and Toads Dog Lover Cat Lover
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banker07
May 7, 2014 12:30 AM CST
gg5 said:
Peter here is a photo of my arach x Nevadense which doesn't have much webbing, and yet is considered an arachnoideum.


Greg, if you cross a arachnoideum with any other taxon it's possible that some of the seedlings have no web;

but Laggeri isn't a cross - it's a clean arachnoideum;

S. nevadense is an old name and it now is called S. minutum;
http://www.catalogueoflife.org/col/details/species/id/167293...

on our homepage we have an entry S. arachnoideum x S. minutum;
http://www.sempervivum-liste.de/Sempervivum/arachnoideum%20x...
you can see that there is one summer-photo with web and one without; that's because it's a cross and the result isn't consistent;

Peter
[url=www.sempervivum-liste.de]www.sempervivum-liste.de[/url]
[url=www.hauswurze.de]www.hauswurze.de[/url]
[Last edited by banker07 - May 7, 2014 12:32 AM (+)]
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