Daylilies forum: june seedlings

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Name: Michele
Cantonment, FL zone 8b
Seller of Garden Stuff Region: United States of America Pollen collector Dragonflies I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Region: Florida
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tink3472
Jun 6, 2014 3:19 PM CST
chalyse said:Really awesome ruffles/teeth on Lillian's First Bite x Dr. Stump! They seem especially well formed and held. Is the 18M = 18 inches?

So, are scapes the big factor in culling 99% (too short, too bendy, etc.) when so many of the flowers are delightful?


I'll answer part of this for Fred Whistling The 18M means it is an 18 month old seedling


Now for us here (Fred will have to answer for himself) Yes the scapes are the big factor in culling 99% of the seedlings. When a person does over a 1000 seedlings a year you cannot keep every pretty face just because it is pretty. Now keep in mind a lot of those will be lookalikes or just plain ugly or the bloom may open at the tip before the bud is ready to bloom and when it does bloom it will be splotchy or the blooms hang and don't open properly so even if it has a good scape it may have to go as well. The ugly or plain part won't necessarily keep it from being kept but the other issues will.

If the bloom doesn't fit the scape height, say a 6" bloom on an 18" scape or even a 24" scape it will go. We prefer 28" or taller for large flowers. Now if the bloom is a small or mini that is different and you want a shorter scape but it must have shorter foliage to match or the blooms will be down in the foliage. A too thin scape even if nicely branched will not hold a 10" spider/UF, it will flop. If it has just two branches and a few buds then it will not stay even if it is beautiful. That's just a few reason.
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Name: Natalie
North Central Idaho (Zone 7a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Dog Lover Daylilies Irises Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Hummingbirder
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Natalie
Jun 6, 2014 10:08 PM CST
Gleni said:Send them to me and I will compost them for you, Fred Angel .

I've got a nice compost bin in Idaho, too. Whistling Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing

I honestly can't imagine anyone tossing a seedling into a compost bin! Especially those of you who make amazing seedlings! I know it has to have more than a pretty face, but I've had trouble getting even that right! Hilarious!
Natalie
Name: Tina
Where the desert meets the sea (Zone 9b)
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chalyse
Jun 6, 2014 10:38 PM CST
Thanks so much for the helpful explanations! And, finally I can see what is meant by blasting scapes ( Thank You! Thank You! Thank You! ) ... I think that must be what happened to my otherwise strapping and healthy looking scape that tossed its own buds (self-composting because I watered it too much?! Blinking ). Note to self!

Some scapes seem to stay upright to 45-degrees or less (basically upright, between the 12 and 2 of a clock face) and I don't get concerned until they are closer to hitting the 90-degrees-from-upright mark (3 o'clock or lower). Is that about right? Or, is anything more than a tiny bit off upright a source for endless future difficulties in offspring? That would truly narrow my breeding cultivars down, though I'm certainly wanting to find reliable tools to figuratively 'build the house" with, so your generosity in sharing further details is very much appreciated. Floppers ... I have been sorely tempted to look the other way when all else is a rare find ... but ... may be time for me to face that more squarely now. Thumbs up ... Crying Crying Crying ... Rolling on the floor laughing

Getting to the level where I can see seeds turn into seedlings in under a year is still a pipe dream, so it is very encouraging to hear others doing it! You guys are awesome.
Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of old; seek what those of old sought. — Basho

Daylilies that thrive? click here! Thumbs up
[Last edited by chalyse - Jun 6, 2014 10:51 PM (+)]
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Name: Hans K.
Germany - Wiesbaden (Zone 8a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1
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Heart2Heart
Jun 7, 2014 3:37 AM CST
http://garden.org/thread/view_...

Lyle, I like the seedlings SPACECOAST IRISH ILLUMINATION X FLORENCE DENNY. Just a few days ago I plant smal seedlings from the same cross in potts. Your pix give me hope for same nice plants. Did you get the seed also from Mark B.?
When I saw this crossroads at the lilyauktion, in my fantasy saw the result like your second picture. I also got seedlings from seeds It´s A Miracle x Florence Danny - same seller.
In my hope to get flowers like your first pic.

Do you have more pix/informations (flowersize,...) of this cross?

han
[Last edited by Heart2Heart - Jun 7, 2014 4:19 AM (+)]
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Name: Fred Manning
Lillian Alabama

Charter ATP Member Region: Gulf Coast I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Seller of Garden Stuff Dog Lover Region: United States of America
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spunky1
Jun 7, 2014 5:27 AM CST
Thanks Michele, that about sums up the scape information.

I do sell some of the better two and three year old seedlings on the lily auction every year so there's a few that want be destroyed.

This had the first bloom on it yesterday
HB20-13 COFFEE TO GO X WILD DREAMS 18M 2.75"
Thumb of 2014-06-07/spunky1/c4ba00
Also had the first to blooms yesterday
HB30-13 LILLIAN'S LYING EYES X BUTTERFLY COVE) X BLUE EDEN 18M 4.50"
Thumb of 2014-06-07/spunky1/9ce051
SIB TO THE ABOVE I HAD POSTED EARLIER
Thumb of 2014-06-07/spunky1/08c343

Name: Betty
Bakersfield, CA
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Betja
Jun 7, 2014 5:32 AM CST
WOW! Those are the ones I want, Fred!!! At some point I must get your COFFEE TO GO X WILD DREAMS for my mini project, so you simply have to introduce it, OK? And that third one is to die for, although they're all wonderful!

Betty
Name: Glen Ingram
Macleay Is, Qld, Australia (Zone 12a)
(Lee Reinke X Rose F Kennedy) X Unk
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Gleni
Jun 7, 2014 7:20 AM CST
I just love them!! The second is quite splendid.
The problem is that when you are young your life it is ruined by your parents. When you are older it is ruined by your children.
Name: Tina
Where the desert meets the sea (Zone 9b)
Daylilies Container Gardener Dog Lover Birds Enjoys or suffers hot summers Garden Ideas: Level 2
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chalyse
Jun 7, 2014 10:30 AM CST
Michele's explanation about your notation helped me to see that you may be tracking bloom size with the age of seedlings, as an important pairing of data. Do you find a lot of difference over time, or distinct changes as plants mature? Since I don't see a lot of flower-size changes in registered cultivars that I grow (unless they are moved to areas that get different amounts of sun and heat) I'm guessing it may means that hybridizers could be culling those that do not stay consistently within a more stable ratio of circumference?

Perhaps that is how and why some unregistered seedlings are included in future crosses, to stabilize their bloom size while passing along their own flower color/pattern characteristics. Makes me wish that hybridizers would use the old-school way of recording registered seedlings used in a cultivar, noting the seedling parents in parentheses rather than just stating "sdlg" so that the genetic history can be preserved ... but, perhaps I am misunderstanding the way that such crosses were encoded in decades past...

Now that pod season is developing, I'm eager to prepare for getting seedlings started. I don't suppose anyone is interested in refreshing our memories of when it seems best to pluck pods and how they best get themselves ready and set for the seed starting season? Whistling
Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of old; seek what those of old sought. — Basho

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[Last edited by chalyse - Jun 7, 2014 10:34 AM (+)]
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Name: Michele
Cantonment, FL zone 8b
Seller of Garden Stuff Region: United States of America Pollen collector Dragonflies I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Region: Florida
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tink3472
Jun 7, 2014 12:03 PM CST
chalyse said:
Now that pod season is developing, I'm eager to prepare for getting seedlings started. I don't suppose anyone is interested in refreshing our memories of when it seems best to pluck pods and how they best get themselves ready and set for the seed starting season? Whistling


There is no set time to pluck pods, each is different. It takes anywhere from 30-60 days (I have had some take longer) for a pod to ripen and I find some depends on weather, temps, etc. My daylilies that were more shaded last year took longer to ripen than the ones that got more sun. What I do is after about 30 days or so I will go around and start gently squeezing the top of the pods to see if I get a crack. If they crack then they are usually ready and can be plucked. Since I use colored paper clips or wires to mark crosses I have no idea when they were pollinated so this is the best way I find to do it. Some who use tags that you write on to mark the cross on the pollinated flower will record the date it was pollinated. This info can be used to get an idea of when they will be ready or to start checking them.
Most of the time the pods that are ready for me will have some slight browning on them but not always. You can always wait until the pods open by themselves but you there is the possibility of seeds dropping out. I check them everyday once I start because one day they may be green with just a tad of brown and don't seem ready and the very next day the top of the pod will be open.

If you go to Mick Morry's site he has a page on green podding http://avaloniadaylilies.com/G... that is informational.
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Name: Fred Manning
Lillian Alabama

Charter ATP Member Region: Gulf Coast I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Seller of Garden Stuff Dog Lover Region: United States of America
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spunky1
Jun 7, 2014 5:53 PM CST
The bloom size changes very little over the life of a daylily if grown with TLC. I only post the bloom size for the benefit of the ones looking at the photo, chances are it will pretty close to that size ten years from now.

There are more and more hybridizer's using (seedling x seedling) than ever before, most of them do not keep up with what they cross, I can see a lost tag ever now and then but when half of a persons introductions have no name of a pod or pollen parent or both it's not their big secret, they just don't know because they don't care. Jan Joiner did a program for one of our Regional Meetings and said she didn't have time to record such data, needless to say I buy no Joiner daylilies.
[Last edited by spunky1 - Jun 8, 2014 5:03 AM (+)]
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Name: Cynthia (Cindy)
Melvindale, Mi (Zone 5b)
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Hemlady
Jun 7, 2014 7:24 PM CST
I don't understand not keeping records. It's really not hard to do.
Lighthouse Gardens
Name: Tina
Where the desert meets the sea (Zone 9b)
Daylilies Container Gardener Dog Lover Birds Enjoys or suffers hot summers Garden Ideas: Level 2
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chalyse
Jun 7, 2014 11:14 PM CST
I am nodding ... I don't see the rhyme or reason for recording or selling daylilies without providing information about their origins, other than to assign names to them for whatever purpose, and those are obvious. I too am not willing to use lines that are consistently "sdl" "unk" in my breeding program any more as, just like in the animal husbandry world, the practice leads to some pretty unfortunate legacies. Finding those that do exhibit a clear and transparent progression through the line is so helpful to managing important decisions, when there are already so many uncertainties and pitfalls that abound. Some do strive to be good stewards while others do not. I like staying in the latter group, leaving the use of secret, glossed over, or out-of-hand information to speak for itself.

Glad to know about the size of blossoms, and yes, it is very nice to see information about dimensions, age, etc.! I appreciate finding out if what I see mightbe a diamond or a zirconium! You have some real-deal gems there.
Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of old; seek what those of old sought. — Basho

Daylilies that thrive? click here! Thumbs up
[Last edited by chalyse - Jun 8, 2014 1:51 AM (+)]
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Name: Natalie
North Central Idaho (Zone 7a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Dog Lover Daylilies Irises Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Hummingbirder
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Natalie
Jun 7, 2014 11:26 PM CST
I have one seedling that I bought that has unknown parents, and I'm going to use it. It is too beautiful not to, and everything about the plant itself is great. If it doesn't make good babies, then I'll just keep it as a garden plant. However, I normally want to know who the parents are, and I also like ones that have made nice seedlings. If the registered kids from a particular daylily don't appeal to me, I probably wouldn't buy it. I also hesitate to buy any plant that doesn't have any registered kids, but I have bought plenty of them that don't, because I love them. I really like how the database is set up now so that you can see both parents listed next to the children. Not that one daylily kid will ever look like the next, but it gives you an idea if they are capable of making a pretty face. With that said, I have never bought a new intro, and I'd be shocked if I ever did! I finally have some that were registered in this century, but most of mine are a little older. That makes it much easier to decide on which ones to buy, since you can see what they are capable of producing.
Natalie
Name: Tina
Where the desert meets the sea (Zone 9b)
Daylilies Container Gardener Dog Lover Birds Enjoys or suffers hot summers Garden Ideas: Level 2
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chalyse
Jun 7, 2014 11:34 PM CST
I hear you. Thumbs up And, when goals blossom into a hand-clasp of not just beauty, but disclosed relational information and healthy performance too, then everyone (and thing) benefits. It is a challenging road to navigate, but so sweet in its rewards and its benefits into the future. Group hug

Looking forward to those flowers that may bloom along the path tomorrow! Hurray!
Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of old; seek what those of old sought. — Basho

Daylilies that thrive? click here! Thumbs up
[Last edited by chalyse - Jun 8, 2014 1:03 AM (+)]
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Name: Michele
Cantonment, FL zone 8b
Seller of Garden Stuff Region: United States of America Pollen collector Dragonflies I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Region: Florida
Birds Butterflies Container Gardener Hummingbirder Garden Ideas: Level 2 Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle
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tink3472
Jun 8, 2014 4:57 AM CST
Hemlady said:I don't understand not keeping records. It's really not hard to do.


I agree

But there are reasons people don't keep records and in their minds it's a good reason. Some don't really care if they know what the cross is. I had one person tell me that "what does it matter if the parentage is known, I am making the seedlings for myself so it doesn't matter". Some people just go out and grab pollen from whatever plants looks good to them at the time and that could be 1 pollen parent or 100 pollen parents and they don't keep up with what was used.

Some people are just doing more than they can handle and that is where the 'I don't have time" comes in probably. If you have say 2000 seedlings/plants you are using and you are trying to pollinate every bloom on every one of those 2000 that could be more than 10,000 blooms you are going to have to tag. Now imagine the ones who have 5000 seedlings/plants they are pollinating, that could get into the 25,000 or more to tag. Now to me that is an excess amount to try and pollinate because I have a hard time trying to get done what I have.

I try and only use a few pollen parents so it is easier to keep track of. I color code mine and use a colored paper clip to mark the bloom. What I usually do is the one pollen I plan to use most often I will not mark with anything and that means if I have unmarked pods come harvest time I know that a certain pollen was used. Yes a bee could have come in and pollinated before me but I rarely see bees on the daylilies, they would rather hangout in the weed field next door. Most of the time I am out pollinating before the anthers are open anyway so bee pods are very rare here. Or if I plan to use only one pollen on a certain daylily I won't mark it, I do keep track of it in my notes though.

I have heard other reasons too.
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Name: Cynthia (Cindy)
Melvindale, Mi (Zone 5b)
Daylilies Hybridizer Irises Butterflies Charter ATP Member Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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Hemlady
Jun 8, 2014 5:01 AM CST
I use color paperclips too Michele. I use small ones for dips and large ones for tets. If you need some really different colors of clips try Shoplet. Staples also changes colors every year. Last year I got some really neat colors.
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Name: Fred Manning
Lillian Alabama

Charter ATP Member Region: Gulf Coast I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Seller of Garden Stuff Dog Lover Region: United States of America
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spunky1
Jun 8, 2014 5:19 AM CST
I know why they do it and all the excuses for doing it but that don't make it right or make me like it any better. Lets get on to something more pleasant.
LAVENDER BUTTERFLY X LILLIAN'S VAPOR TRAIL 18M 7"
Thumb of 2014-06-08/spunky1/eccea8
SIB TO ABOVE 6"
Thumb of 2014-06-08/spunky1/e8e07f
SIB TO ABOVE 8"
Thumb of 2014-06-08/spunky1/40e1aa

Name: Michele
Cantonment, FL zone 8b
Seller of Garden Stuff Region: United States of America Pollen collector Dragonflies I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Region: Florida
Birds Butterflies Container Gardener Hummingbirder Garden Ideas: Level 2 Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle
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tink3472
Jun 8, 2014 5:59 AM CST
Hemlady said:I use color paperclips too Michele. I use small ones for dips and large ones for tets. If you need some really different colors of clips try Shoplet. Staples also changes colors every year. Last year I got some really neat colors.


I'll have to check those out as I do need different colors as I find some fade more than others and I have to replace them.
www.pensacoladaylilyclub.com
Name: Michele
Cantonment, FL zone 8b
Seller of Garden Stuff Region: United States of America Pollen collector Dragonflies I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Region: Florida
Birds Butterflies Container Gardener Hummingbirder Garden Ideas: Level 2 Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle
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tink3472
Jun 8, 2014 5:59 AM CST
spunky1 said:I know why they do it and all the excuses for doing it but that don't make it right or make me like it any better. Lets get on to something more pleasant.


I agree Thumbs up
www.pensacoladaylilyclub.com
Name: Michele
Cantonment, FL zone 8b
Seller of Garden Stuff Region: United States of America Pollen collector Dragonflies I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Region: Florida
Birds Butterflies Container Gardener Hummingbirder Garden Ideas: Level 2 Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle
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tink3472
Jun 8, 2014 6:00 AM CST
Those are very nice Fred
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