Site Talk forum: separate database entries for tet conversions?

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South San Francisco Bay Area (Zone 9b)
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Polymerous
Jun 11, 2014 5:16 PM CST
I just obtained a tetraploid conversion of the diploid daylily 'Brocaded Gown'. I already have the diploid 'Brocaded Gown' in my plant list, and I was going to add the tetraploid converted plant to my list, but there does not seem to be a separate entry or mechanism to do that.

Just an observation...

Tetraploid conversions aren't widely commercially available (I got this from the Lily Auction) and may not be stable (I'll find out, I guess). Clearly you don't want to have to duplicate ALL of the diploid entries for their potential tetraploid counterparts, but is there/will there be some way of adding the occasional tet conversion to the database?
The current avatar image is that of a volunteer daylily seedling showing cristation.
Name: Dave Whitinger
Jacksonville, Texas (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Region: Texas Master Gardener: Texas Permaculture Raises cows I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Beekeeper Garden Sages Avid Green Pages Reviewer Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
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dave
Jun 11, 2014 5:19 PM CST

Garden.org Admin

I don't know what our long term decision should be on that, but as it pertains to your plant list, just add the plant to the list and put "Tet conversion" (or what have you) in the comments section for that plant in your list. It'll then show that detail on the right side when you're looking at your list.
Name: Tina
Where the desert meets the sea (Zone 9b)
Daylilies Cactus and Succulents Container Gardener Dog Lover Birds Enjoys or suffers hot summers
Garden Ideas: Level 2
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chalyse
Jun 11, 2014 9:38 PM CST
Would it possible to add a cultivar to our lists twice, so that one entry's notes would be for the tet, and the other for the dip, when both are in the same garden? Like some kind of check-box option in addition to "want" "have" "used to have" that would just be an internal list duplication to show both with separate note-boxes in our printable garden lists?

I know it may not be a possibility - just asking...
Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of old; seek what those of old sought. — Basho

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Name: Deb
Pacific Northwest (Zone 8b)
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Bonehead
Jun 12, 2014 6:40 AM CST
This could also be useful for NOID entries. I have several Japanese maples that I don't know the cultivar for (and likely never will) - it would be nice to list them separately in My List, attach a photo and make notes for each.

Perhaps when the database notes 'already in your list' there could be an option to add it as a duplicate?
I want to live in a world where the chicken can cross the road without its motives being questioned.
[Last edited by Bonehead - Jun 12, 2014 6:43 AM (+)]
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Name: Dave Whitinger
Jacksonville, Texas (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Region: Texas Master Gardener: Texas Permaculture Raises cows I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Beekeeper Garden Sages Avid Green Pages Reviewer Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
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dave
Jun 12, 2014 7:04 AM CST

Garden.org Admin

The DB used to allow you to add the same plant twice, but it actually created a lot of problems and I disabled that functionality...
Name: Tina
Where the desert meets the sea (Zone 9b)
Daylilies Cactus and Succulents Container Gardener Dog Lover Birds Enjoys or suffers hot summers
Garden Ideas: Level 2
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chalyse
Jun 12, 2014 7:48 AM CST
I know I was relieved when duplication was disabled, since I have many lists and it was easy to forget I'd saved a cultivar before. I had to do a lot of deleting from forgetful, repeat "adding" of the same plant.So, that was a great improvement.

But, to try and understand the process more clearly ... I'm guessing you are letting us know that the program that saves a DB entry to our list/s cannot determine if we already have the plant saved and, if so, alert and offer an override option to allow it to show up more than once in the list/s?

The unintentional duplication function was truly hard for those, like me, who forget what is in various lists. And, overriding saved me a lot of clean-up. It's just that now it's _so_ nice and tidy that I'm actually using it as my primary source for tracking cultivars. It beats having to mess with excel or other DB programs, and printing it works to use the lists as a guide to work in the garden. For that reason, I began to wonder if I could somehow get an option back, by prompting from the DB when an entry already exists in my lists, but to have a second (or third, etc) duplicate allowed, with the ability to add different info in the notes section. In that way lots of natural and wanted duplications would be possible (different fans of same cultivar from different sources, unregistered tet conversions, even notes tracking individual seedling offspring until they are far enough along to have their own entry, and so on).

I could see how that kind of selective duplication might not be possible, though. That the DB is such a precise and versatile tool, surprising to me that it has already surpassed the usefulness of other programs, just leads easily to speculation about what else it might do! Thumbs up
Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of old; seek what those of old sought. — Basho

Daylilies that thrive? click here! Thumbs up
Name: Dave Whitinger
Jacksonville, Texas (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Region: Texas Master Gardener: Texas Permaculture Raises cows I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Beekeeper Garden Sages Avid Green Pages Reviewer Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
Image
dave
Jun 12, 2014 7:50 AM CST

Garden.org Admin

Allowing duplicates but giving a warning with an option to over-ride is, of course, doable but complex. I try to avoid complexity as much as possible, so I'll have to proceed cautiously with this. For now, the answer has to be no but let's hold it open as a wish-list option for the future.
Name: Tina
Where the desert meets the sea (Zone 9b)
Daylilies Cactus and Succulents Container Gardener Dog Lover Birds Enjoys or suffers hot summers
Garden Ideas: Level 2
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chalyse
Jun 12, 2014 7:59 AM CST
Drooling So awesome to have things to anticipate, to look forward to possibly seeing new things like this down the line ... and much appreciated that you'd even consider tackling that incredible level of complexity for possible use some day. Hurray!
Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of old; seek what those of old sought. — Basho

Daylilies that thrive? click here! Thumbs up
South San Francisco Bay Area (Zone 9b)
"The mountains are calling..."
Region: California Garden Photography Garden Procrastinator Daylilies Pollen collector Dog Lover
Moon Gardener Irises Heucheras Vegetable Grower Garden Ideas: Level 1 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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Polymerous
Jun 12, 2014 2:27 PM CST
The thought occurred to me, Dave (after chalyse made the suggestion of duplicates), that maybe such a feature wouldn't be too hard to implement.

As I recall, you recently made a fix/change to the code, to check for people accidentally adding duplicates to their plant lists. (Yeah, that was me... *Blush* ) Instead of automatically disallowing that option (as you do now, with a flag to the user that they already have that plant), you could instead make a modification to the code, along the lines of:

If user-has-plant = true (this is something you have already determined)
then ask-user-if-wants-dupe (this is a subroutine that pops up a box to ask the user; depending on what button/link they click, returns a value of true or false)

If user-has-plant=false OR user-wants-dupe=true
then add-plant;


My programming skills are quite rusty but it seems like something like that might work. It is then up to the user to manage their duplicate plant entries (one they can comment as a diploid, the other as a tetraploid).

This (for my taste) would be Plan B; ideally there should be a way to add Tetra (whatever) as a new plant to the database, because (apart from the ploidy) I suspect that there are probably other plant differences (flower size and scape height, at least).


The current avatar image is that of a volunteer daylily seedling showing cristation.
Name: Dave Whitinger
Jacksonville, Texas (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Region: Texas Master Gardener: Texas Permaculture Raises cows I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Beekeeper Garden Sages Avid Green Pages Reviewer Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
Image
dave
Jun 12, 2014 2:28 PM CST

Garden.org Admin

Polymerous said:then ask-user-if-wants-dupe (this is a subroutine that pops up a box to ask the user; depending on what button/link they click, returns a value of true or false)


Yes, the easy part is describing how to program it. Sticking tongue out
[Last edited by dave - Jun 12, 2014 2:30 PM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #636729 (10)
Name: Tina
Where the desert meets the sea (Zone 9b)
Daylilies Cactus and Succulents Container Gardener Dog Lover Birds Enjoys or suffers hot summers
Garden Ideas: Level 2
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chalyse
Jun 12, 2014 2:49 PM CST
It is a sweet ray of future hope Lovey dubby I imagine that we cannot add Tet. entries since that would normally come from the parent registry organization? There are getting to be so many informal Tet. conversions, though, that it does get confusing sometimes to have only the Dip. entry in our list - though, yes, noting it clearly in the notes section can keep us gardening onward, and only furtively peeking from around the corner to see if, over your shoulder, there might some day be some key-clicking going on.

Rolling on the floor laughing no pressure! Whistling sorry, sorries, oh forgive us, we just like your DB so much! Hurray!
Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of old; seek what those of old sought. — Basho

Daylilies that thrive? click here! Thumbs up
South San Francisco Bay Area (Zone 9b)
"The mountains are calling..."
Region: California Garden Photography Garden Procrastinator Daylilies Pollen collector Dog Lover
Moon Gardener Irises Heucheras Vegetable Grower Garden Ideas: Level 1 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Image
Polymerous
Jun 12, 2014 3:26 PM CST
Yes, the easy part is describing how to program it. Sticking tongue out

Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing
The current avatar image is that of a volunteer daylily seedling showing cristation.

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