Roses forum: Roses aren't growing.

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Name: Meredith
New Hampshire (Zone 5b)
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Meredith79
Jul 10, 2014 8:39 AM CST
This spring I noticed a few of my roses had something scratch the bark off the canes. It looked like lots of lines down the canes. The roses this happened to had barely anything left alive. pretty much a single cane remained on each of them, that weren't completely dead. They were very slow to start growing and even until this day they appear stunted. One is Folklore and it usually gets very tall. It is only about a foot high with 3 small canes and managed 3 small blooms. I also have Tahiatin Sunset but this one appears to be sizing up some at this point. It isn't any where near as big as usual though. The worst is Freisinger Morgenrote Aka: Sunrise, it is about 3" tall with a little bud. The leaves also look stunted like they just aren't growing the right size. These roses were all very vigorous last year. Can anyone give me a suggestion as to what may help. I made sure to fertilize. I used Rose Tone. I also run a soaker hose for them when we have no natural rainfall for a while. I am concerned since if I lose these three that will be 7 roses I've lost since planting in 2009 and 2010. I am afraid I have brought a disease in and won't be able to grow roses anymore.
Name: Toni
Denver Metro (Zone 5a)
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Skiekitty
Jul 10, 2014 10:39 AM CST
Well, are you feeding them? Roses are very hungry plants and like to be fed lots. Mine usually get blood.. from my legs. LOLLL no, seriously though, they *are* heavy feeders. Can you post pictures? A lot can be determined by looking at the leaves. Also, what zone are you in? And losing only 7 roses is a miracle.. I wish I lost only 7 roses this winter. I think I lost probably closer to 40-50 roses.
Roses are one of my passions! Just opened, my Etsy shop (to fund my rose hobby)! http://www.etsy.com/shop/TweetsnTreats
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
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zuzu
Jul 10, 2014 12:18 PM CST

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Meredith, tell us more. Your location might help in diagnosing this problem. So would some photos of the damage. Are the lines on the canes vertical or horizontal? Where did you buy the roses? Are they grafted or own-root? Are you in an area troubled by gophers, rabbits, or deer? Has it been unusually hot in your location this year?

Incidentally, I googled "rose cane damage" to see whether I could find anything that met your description, and the images included one of Axl Rose walking with a cane. Hilarious!
Name: Meredith
New Hampshire (Zone 5b)
Region: New Hampshire Cat Lover Butterflies Hummingbirder Keeper of Poultry Roses
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Meredith79
Jul 10, 2014 12:27 PM CST
Skiekitty said:Well, are you feeding them? Roses are very hungry plants and like to be fed lots. Mine usually get blood.. from my legs. LOLLL no, seriously though, they *are* heavy feeders. Can you post pictures? A lot can be determined by looking at the leaves. Also, what zone are you in? And losing only 7 roses is a miracle.. I wish I lost only 7 roses this winter. I think I lost probably closer to 40-50 roses.

This year I exclusively used Rose Tone, in past years I used Bayer systemic rose and flower care which is supposed to prevent black spot, insect damage and fertilize, along with Rose Tone. I want to stop using it due to it's bad rap for hurting bee populations. I have stuff I can use on stand by if I see problems. So far I haven't had black spot this year. The JBs are just starting now. So my roses will be looking bad for the next few weeks.
I should have mentioned I only have 8 spots for roses. So I planted 8 over a 2 year period so my ratio is high don't you think?



Name: Meredith
New Hampshire (Zone 5b)
Region: New Hampshire Cat Lover Butterflies Hummingbirder Keeper of Poultry Roses
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Meredith79
Jul 10, 2014 12:33 PM CST
zuzu said:Meredith, tell us more. Your location might help in diagnosing this problem. So would some photos of the damage. Are the lines on the canes vertical or horizontal? Where did you buy the roses? Are they grafted or own-root? Are you in an area troubled by gophers, rabbits, or deer? Has it been unusually hot in your location this year?

Incidentally, I googled "rose cane damage" to see whether I could find anything that met your description, and the images included one of Axl Rose walking with a cane. Hilarious!


Sorry I forgot my location doesn't show here. I am in southeastern NH. I get cold winters. Last winter was exceptionally long and lots of snow cover. So apparently something was enjoying the rose canes as a snack under the snow. I also did a google search and found something about voles, which is possible. My kitty has brought me many little things that are similar looking to them and he wouldn't be able to catch them under the snow.
The damage was vertical and it reminded me of perfect scratches about the size I'd imagine a mouses teeth. I may have a pic. I am going to search after I post this.

I got some pictures of the roses now. That fence is 4' tall to give you an idea.
Folklore
Thumb of 2014-07-10/Meredith79/195143
Folklore Closer
Thumb of 2014-07-10/Meredith79/2e8530
Sunrise
Thumb of 2014-07-10/Meredith79/a3b298
Name: Meredith
New Hampshire (Zone 5b)
Region: New Hampshire Cat Lover Butterflies Hummingbirder Keeper of Poultry Roses
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Meredith79
Jul 10, 2014 12:41 PM CST
I had to look up about the sources. I think Folklore is grafted, I got it from Pickering Nurseries in 2010.
Sunrise ~ I am pretty sure is own root, it is also from Pickering in 2010.
Come to think of it a rose I lost the year before was also from Pickering. Victor Borge. I really loved that one but I can't find it anywhere now. :(

I also lost Portlandia from Heirloom Roses (own root) this past winter. But it was in a different spot and it never gre very well for me so I am not as surprised.
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
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zuzu
Jul 10, 2014 1:09 PM CST

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The loss of Portlandia doesn't surprise me. I bought mine from Roseland after seeing that Heirloom's Portlandia plants were never viable.

Pickering didn't sell any own-root roses until last year, so all of your Pickering roses are grafted. They should grow well in your zone. Sunrise, in particular, should be at least 6 feet tall after four years. Maybe it was stunted by the container. It's not a rose I would ever grow in a container. It's huge.

The cold winter may be the reason for your small leaves and blooms. The roses may be taking longer than usual to awake from dormancy.

It's also possible that you overfertilized. Roses exhibiting any signs of stress should not be fertilized. Overfertilization could cause cane striations and various other problems.

I'm in a completely different location from you, but that kind of damage on my roses would make me suspect underwatering (they might need more water than they're getting) and damage from underground creatures. I have gophers, and before I started planting in gopher-proof cages, the nibbling at the roots would create one-cane rose bushes, stunted growth, and worse. Voles could be an even bigger problem because they cause damage above and below the ground. They eat the roots and gnaw at the above-ground portion of plants.
Name: Toni
Denver Metro (Zone 5a)
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Skiekitty
Jul 10, 2014 1:20 PM CST
Zuzu - if you look at the 2nd picture, you can see yellowing on the leaves.. iron deficiency? They look fine to me as far as height & width if she had major winterkill. Look at my own roses... most of them should be 2-5' tall at their age in ground but I'm lucky to see 18inch to 2' most years because they get killed to the ground EVERY year. And I get huge leaves every year.. cold has nothing to do with leaf size IMO & IME. The NE part of the country has been hit with a long cold season this year and it's probably just going to be a bad growth year this year.

Meredith - Provided that your climate is similar to mine (extreme cold in the winter for a while), but you have snow-cover, your roses look just fine. But the scratches on the canes.. bunnies? I know the @chelle had bunny damage to her roses before.. (The thread "Rabbit damage" in Roses forum). Everything loves to eat roses.
Roses are one of my passions! Just opened, my Etsy shop (to fund my rose hobby)! http://www.etsy.com/shop/TweetsnTreats
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
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zuzu
Jul 10, 2014 1:37 PM CST

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Toni, many of your roses aren't meant to grow in your zone, so it's to your credit that they even stay alive. In Meredith's case, she's even having trouble with Sunrise. She says it's 3 inches tall! It's a climber that typically reaches 8-10 feet, and I made allowances for her climate when I said it should be at least 6 feet tall after four years. It's a hardy Kordes climber and it shouldn't die back to the ground every year. Tabby grew a tall one in Denver. She's not active here anymore, but I'm sure she'd say hers didn't die back to the ground each year.

The yellowing of the leaves could mean a deficiency of some kind, but it also could be from too much fertilizer and not enough water.
Name: Toni
Denver Metro (Zone 5a)
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Skiekitty
Jul 10, 2014 2:28 PM CST
yikes. I thought I had it bad.

Thumb of 2014-07-10/Skiekitty/10c95c

My Portlandia is about 14" tall this year. I didn't even know it was where it was until I saw it bloom 2 days ago!
Rose (Rosa 'Portlandia')

My Tahitian Sunset didn't even survive my summer last year, let alone my winter...
Rose (Rosa 'Tahitian Sunset')

I've been thinking about getting a Folklore.. but I'd have to order it as I've never seen it locally.
Rose (Rosa 'Folklore')

My largest roses I have this year are my Oshun, which is about 4' tall by now, both Orchid Masterpiece (one is about 3', the other is about 4' but that one had a lot more mulch protection), Austrian Copper is about 6-6.5' long (never dies to the ground), and Theresa Bugnet, which is over 6'x6' (taller than me & wider than me), but she sits right against the house, so she gets LOTS of protection from the wind & snow.. where she's at NEVER gets a lot of snow.. only 2 times since I've bought the house have I seen more than 6" of snow in that area, and that's because we got a blizzard that snowed for over 2 days straight. Had drifts over 3' in some parts of the yard. Sheila's Perfume, one of my biggest roses last year, is barely about 12", Melody Perfume is probably 2.5' right now.. heck, I had completely forgotten that I had a Sunstruck until I saw the blooms buried in the vinca!! I think my bushiest roses I have right now are Ruby Voodoo (I *love* that rose), Julia Child, Scentimental (of course), Firefighter, & Lavender ... lavender.. oh fudge.. what is it called.. lavender something or another. Ruby Voodoo is probably about 2' around & 3' tall, Julia Child is probably 2' around and about 18" tall, Firefighter is probably 2' around & 18" tall... but, as I said before, considering everything was dead to the ground, not too bad considering only 2 months of growth (last snow was after Mother's Day). My pathetics, this year, are Star of the Nile (about 10" tall and a bloom the size of a half-dollar), Oranges & Lemons (about 8" tall, no blooms), Ink Spots (about 6" tall), Fragrant Plum (about 2-3" tall)... heck, I have probably 15 roses that are less than a foot tall right now. I need to feed them again.. may do that tomorrow afternoon if it doesn't rain today.

I think Meredith's roses look wonderful considering her environment!!! I'm betting that it's just going to be a very short season for her, just like it is going to be for me. I know that this month & next month are going to be it, then everything will wind down in Sept and call it quits in October. I'm almost 3/4 of the way through the first flush.. I don't know if the weather will hold long enough to have a 2nd flush this year.
Roses are one of my passions! Just opened, my Etsy shop (to fund my rose hobby)! http://www.etsy.com/shop/TweetsnTreats
Name: Meredith
New Hampshire (Zone 5b)
Region: New Hampshire Cat Lover Butterflies Hummingbirder Keeper of Poultry Roses
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Meredith79
Jul 11, 2014 7:48 AM CST
It was funny about Sunrise, I must have sunk it in the ground in a pot with the intention to later remove it as long as I liked it in that spot. However I forgot, because when I was digging it up I was wondering what I was hitting! It did cross my mind that being in a pot wasn't the best thing. However it had grown huge at one point. It was taller than my fence and I pruned it or it would have kept going most likely.

It had been a hot and dry spring, so that could have been a factor. I fertilized once with Rose Tone according to the package directions. I wasn't watering until we had longer than a week with no rain. Just for comparison, my Mardi Gras is taller than the 4' fence and was blooming like crazy. IT is 2 roses down from the other two I had problems with. They all are on the same soaker hose have the same growing conditions. That rose has been my best performer out of all the ones I've tried so far.

I do believe it may be underground problems. I saw a groundhog hanging around at one point.

The thing that worried me was the way the leaves looked like Skykittie noticed. They definitely look deficient. I was worried it was a virus, since the other roses I have being treated the same are doing fine.

On that map I am way down in the right corner right on the border where it is green (6a). I am to the right of Nashua.
Name: Meredith
New Hampshire (Zone 5b)
Region: New Hampshire Cat Lover Butterflies Hummingbirder Keeper of Poultry Roses
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Meredith79
Jul 11, 2014 7:55 AM CST
Here is Mardi Gras, blooms are winding down now and I'll be waiting for a second flush. BUt you can see how much better it is doing.
Thumb of 2014-07-11/Meredith79/924a38

Name: Cindi
Wichita, Kansas (Zone 7a)
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CindiKS
Jul 11, 2014 9:32 AM CST
If you dug up one of the stunted ones to take a look at the condition of the roots, it might give you some answers. Damaged roots combined with hot and dry conditions would give you yellow leaves.
Rabbits are horribly destructive to my roses, but they don't leave scratch lines. They just do major pruning.
I get lines on the canes in exceptionally dry winters. The trees show this same symptom, along with sun scorch.
If it were my rose, I think I would dig it up, pot it in a 5 gallon pot in the best potting soil I had, and put it in a protected spot just to see if it improves. It would have to be brought into the garage for the winter if it were in a pot, though.
Your Mardi Gras is beautiful! That one is kind of tender in my garden for some reason. That makes me think it's not a climate problem in your situation. The weather could have compounded a root issue on the affected plants, though.

I wonder if you found some predator urine from a zoo and applied it in late fall if that would keep critters away? Some of our nurseries sell fox urine (it's dehydrated, looks like a powder) but I have read that waste from the big cats keeps critters away. Don't know how long it lasts but it might be worth looking into.
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Name: Toni
Denver Metro (Zone 5a)
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.
Charter ATP Member Irises Salvias Xeriscape Birds I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Procrastinator The WITWIT Badge Region: Colorado Enjoys or suffers cold winters Cat Lover
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Skiekitty
Jul 11, 2014 11:17 AM CST
as I mentioned in my post, I have some exceedingly small roses this year. I *think* this is my other Star of the Nile. This is a bad photo (took it as I was leaving for the dr's office this morning with my phone) so I'll try to get a better picture tonight. But, as you can kinda see, it's a microscopic plant! I think it's about 3" tall with a bud on it! This is an own root from RU.

Thumb of 2014-07-11/Skiekitty/c8f35d

Roses are one of my passions! Just opened, my Etsy shop (to fund my rose hobby)! http://www.etsy.com/shop/TweetsnTreats
Name: Meredith
New Hampshire (Zone 5b)
Region: New Hampshire Cat Lover Butterflies Hummingbirder Keeper of Poultry Roses
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Meredith79
Jul 11, 2014 5:59 PM CST
Thanks Cindi! I'll have to pop it out of the pot to know for sure, but it definitely had a crazy tap root. I had a hard time digging it up because of it. The pot it was in is probably close to a 5 gallon. I think your suggestion is a good idea!

Skiekitty, that is pretty much what sunrise is like. It is killing me because I can't find a picture of Sunrise, but I know I had one of it when it was at it's best.

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