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Name: Sherry
Northern California
Sunset Zone 17
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Region: Pacific Northwest Seed Starter Region: California Plant Identifier
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wcgypsy
Oct 2, 2014 7:33 AM CST
It was mentioned to me yesterday that one should not be growing GMO ornamentals as this is killing the bees...this was told to me secondhand and specifically referring to salvia elegans "Pineapple Sage". I had not thought about the possibility of a problem with GMO ornamentals.....

Anyone knowledgable about this? I'd appreciate any info....
TIA
I could be wrong...
and.....
"maybe I should have kept my mouth shut....."
springfield MO area (Zone 6a)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Identifier
Frillylily
Oct 2, 2014 10:07 AM CST
Have not heard much about GMO ornamentals. I guess I just thought of that as mostly grain or other food crops. What would be the purpose of GMO ornamentals really? I guess I need enlightened too.
Name: Sherry
Northern California
Sunset Zone 17
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Region: Pacific Northwest Seed Starter Region: California Plant Identifier
Image
wcgypsy
Oct 2, 2014 10:27 AM CST
I was hoping someone would know a quick answer...lol..because the searching I've done so far gets me nowhere. All that I'm finding is genetic engineering for certain ornamentals such as roses and carnations. My first thought upon hearing this about the GMO idea was "no...."...then I thought that there certainly may well be things going on that I don't know about. I've mainly thought only about the food crops and the Round-Up issues and I do't spray with anything or use any types of chemicals, so the idea that there may be issues with ornamentals threw me. Thanks for your input....
I could be wrong...
and.....
"maybe I should have kept my mouth shut....."
Name: Catmint/Robin
Maryland (Zone 7a)
Region: Mid-Atlantic Butterflies Forum moderator Native Plants and Wildflowers Bee Lover Echinacea
Region: Maryland Garden Photography Cottage Gardener Garden Ideas: Master Level Celebrating Gardening: 2015 The WITWIT Badge
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Catmint20906
Oct 2, 2014 5:43 PM CST
It sounds to me like it's maybe a conflation of two ideas--one, the idea of the genetic engineering which goes into any plant/ cultivar that humans have a hand in generating; and two, all the pesticides that many plants in big box stores and even some nurseries are drenched in before they're sold, so the plants are actually harmful to the pollinators that land on them.

I think the first is not harmful to pollinators, but I've heard some reports that cultivars may not always attract and provide nectar for pollinators as well as the straight species does, especially when it comes to natives.

The second practice is definitely harmful to pollinators, but is unrelated to the issue of whether a human was involved in creating a plant or cultivar.

well, just my thoughts.
"One of the pleasures of being a gardener comes from the enjoyment you get looking at other people's yards”
― Thalassa Cruso
Name: Sherry
Northern California
Sunset Zone 17
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Region: Pacific Northwest Seed Starter Region: California Plant Identifier
Image
wcgypsy
Oct 2, 2014 8:00 PM CST
I agree with those thoughts, they're what I think also. I should go speak to this person directly and decide if he knows what he's talking about or is simply misinformed. I try to allow for the possiblity that someone may know something that I don't know...lol..but in this case, I believe he must be wrong.
I could be wrong...
and.....
"maybe I should have kept my mouth shut....."
Name: Catmint/Robin
Maryland (Zone 7a)
Region: Mid-Atlantic Butterflies Forum moderator Native Plants and Wildflowers Bee Lover Echinacea
Region: Maryland Garden Photography Cottage Gardener Garden Ideas: Master Level Celebrating Gardening: 2015 The WITWIT Badge
Image
Catmint20906
Oct 3, 2014 4:13 AM CST
you go, girl! Smiling Thumbs up Let us know the outcome! :-)
"One of the pleasures of being a gardener comes from the enjoyment you get looking at other people's yards”
― Thalassa Cruso
Name: Sherry
Northern California
Sunset Zone 17
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Region: Pacific Northwest Seed Starter Region: California Plant Identifier
Image
wcgypsy
Oct 3, 2014 9:04 AM CST
Well, I think that he must have been referring to sprays used on the plants being the problem rather than the GMO idea, but that this was 'lost in translation' by a second person in telling me this. However, this does bring us round to that problem...the use of pesticides on the plants while being grown for sale. Commercial nurseries, I suspect most of them, will use sprays or soil drenches on the plants in order to protect their profits...so when we bring home that plant that's for our birds, bees, butterflies, are we instead poisoning them? If a spray has been used, how long will it remain on the plant? If a drench, how long does that remain in the soil? As in the case of asclepias / milkweeds that some nurseries will at least advise you to keep away from the butterflies through the first season as it has been sprayed....? Do we need to make sure that the ornamentals we bring home have been grown organically? Or grow our own from seed or cuttings we know to be safe?
I could be wrong...
and.....
"maybe I should have kept my mouth shut....."
Name: Catmint/Robin
Maryland (Zone 7a)
Region: Mid-Atlantic Butterflies Forum moderator Native Plants and Wildflowers Bee Lover Echinacea
Region: Maryland Garden Photography Cottage Gardener Garden Ideas: Master Level Celebrating Gardening: 2015 The WITWIT Badge
Image
Catmint20906
Oct 3, 2014 6:50 PM CST
I agree this is a real problem, Sherry. I wish I knew the answer. Sad On another thread, someone was talking about how a lot of nurseries use the term 'organic' pesticide to mean something that actually kills the caterpillars trying to use a plant as a host. Sad Seeds are safe, or plants shared from other gardeners whom we know don't use pesticides. I got some milkweed from a wildlife group in a neighboring county and the Monarch cats did great on it. The BST cats also did great on my parsley, which had overwintered from last year. Last year however, the first year I had this particular parsley plant, I found no cats on it, so I suspect it had been pre-sprayed. But this year it was fine. At this point, I'll probably be adding to my pollinator plants more selectively to make sure things are safer for them.
"One of the pleasures of being a gardener comes from the enjoyment you get looking at other people's yards”
― Thalassa Cruso
Name: Sherry
Northern California
Sunset Zone 17
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Region: Pacific Northwest Seed Starter Region: California Plant Identifier
Image
wcgypsy
Oct 3, 2014 7:34 PM CST
For all of those of us who are nursery addicts, it's not good news to know what we're bringing home and I see no way around it unless more and more nuseries also go organic with ornamentals.
I could be wrong...
and.....
"maybe I should have kept my mouth shut....."
Name: Ann ~Heat zn 9, Sunset
North Fl. (Zone 8b)
Garden Sages Native Plants and Wildflowers Xeriscape Organic Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level
Butterflies Charter ATP Member Plant Identifier Region: Florida Dog Lover Birds
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flaflwrgrl
Oct 18, 2014 12:17 PM CST
I agree
I know that you have recently moved Sherry & I moved prior to you but it does make things difficult when we can't just go to the nursery or the big box store & come home with plants. What might have been a year or two for us to make a real change in our new homes as far as gardens go, will now take far longer --- 5 or 6 years probably if we have to do so much from seed. Cuttings or divisions from fellow gardeners who don't use these pesticides can help us shorten the transition time but it still will be longer than it used to take. Sighing!
BUT, in the long run, we will know we are not killing those we wish only to help.

We only have big box stores here & 1 nursery. I called that nursery & from talking with the owner I did NOT get a good feeling. He didn't even know the names of what he applies but did tell me they are systemics applied to the soil in the pots & that goes for virtually everything they grow & sell. He was incapable of understanding what I meant when I said neonicotinoids. Glare
I am a strong believer in the simple fact is that what matters in this life is how we treat others. I think that's what living is all about. Not what I've done in my life but how I've treated others.
~~ Sharon Brown ~~



Name: Sherry
Northern California
Sunset Zone 17
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Region: Pacific Northwest Seed Starter Region: California Plant Identifier
Image
wcgypsy
Oct 18, 2014 1:12 PM CST
Yes, it will take longer to get everything I want here...and I always want everything...lol..it does help that there are not a lot of nurseries to be tempted by and I've been given a lot of seeds that have already been sown and going into the ground. This property had been overgrown for a lot of years and there is a lot of native growth for the bees. I've left one long side yard strip and am creating mounds / berms in front that will have transplanted chunks of the native growth for more area for bee food.....white clover, red clover, self-heal, buttercup (ranunculus repens), persicaria, bird's foot trefoil, a certain daisy and others to create / leave 'meadows' for the birds and bees. I also have plants that I brought with me....and a friend nearby who has a 'now closed' nursery to get cuttings from.
I could be wrong...
and.....
"maybe I should have kept my mouth shut....."
Name: Ann ~Heat zn 9, Sunset
North Fl. (Zone 8b)
Garden Sages Native Plants and Wildflowers Xeriscape Organic Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level
Butterflies Charter ATP Member Plant Identifier Region: Florida Dog Lover Birds
Image
flaflwrgrl
Oct 18, 2014 1:25 PM CST
Good! Thumbs up
I am a strong believer in the simple fact is that what matters in this life is how we treat others. I think that's what living is all about. Not what I've done in my life but how I've treated others.
~~ Sharon Brown ~~



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