Plant Database forum: Iris database - Bernice Miller

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Name: woofie
NE WA (Zone 5a)
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woofie
Oct 5, 2014 11:19 AM CST
A recent request from a new member got me poking around in the Iris database and I noticed a couple of things.
One, there appears to be a duplicate entry, but I'm not sure which spelling is correct:

Thumb of 2014-10-05/woofie/b8e2a5

And, some of the irises hybridized by Bernice Miller are listed under B. Miller and some are listed as Bernice Miller. If you search for B. Miller, you get 47 entries. If you search for Bernice Miller, you get only 17. Shouldn't this be consistent? One or the other?
Confidence is that feeling you have right before you do something really stupid.
Name: Kent Pfeiffer
Southeast Nebraska (Zone 5b)
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator Plant Identifier Region: Nebraska Forum moderator
Garden Sages Garden Ideas: Master Level Irises Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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KentPfeiffer
Oct 5, 2014 12:04 PM CST

Plants Admin

Jeptha's Daughter was registered by B. Miller in 1974, although apparently never introduced. Jephtha's Daughter was registered and introduced by B. Miller in 1986. They are different irises. Why Mrs. Miller chose to introduce one with a slightly different name rather than reassign the name from the earlier iris which wasn't introduced, I couldn't say. She presumably had a good reason, though.

As I mentioned in the other thread, AIS currently includes the hybridizer's full name in the registry, but prior to the 1990's (or so, I'm not sure exactly when it changed) they only included the initial of the hybridizer's first name. Since the Hybridizer field in the Iris Database was filled with information directly from the register, that's how they are displayed. @dave fixed quite of few of those for us, but not all by any means. If you asked him to change all of the B. Miller entries to Bernice Miller, I'm sure he would. Of course, you'd want to be certain that all of the B. Miller entries are, in fact, Bernice Miller's irises (they probably are, AIS was careful about not using the same abbreviation for different people).
Name: woofie
NE WA (Zone 5a)
Charter ATP Member Garden Procrastinator Greenhouse Dragonflies Plays in the sandbox I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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woofie
Oct 5, 2014 12:24 PM CST
Ah, thanks for that clarification, Kent, on the two seemingly duplicate entries.

Another thing that I find confusing is that the AIS listing I looked at showed the B. Miller entries we have as Bernice Miller:
http://wiki.irises.org/bin/view/Main/Bio/HybridizerMillerBer...
But none of the irises we have listed under Bernice Miller are in that list. Is there another list somewhere that I'm not finding?
Confidence is that feeling you have right before you do something really stupid.
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses
Clematis Irises Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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zuzu
Oct 5, 2014 12:26 PM CST

Plants Admin

Won't you find all of them if you just search for "Miller," Woofie? I do that when I'm searching for Austin roses because I can't always remember the full name used for registration purposes.
Name: woofie
NE WA (Zone 5a)
Charter ATP Member Garden Procrastinator Greenhouse Dragonflies Plays in the sandbox I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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woofie
Oct 5, 2014 12:32 PM CST
Well, yes, you would find all of them, along with a "few" others. Hilarious!

Confidence is that feeling you have right before you do something really stupid.
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses
Clematis Irises Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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zuzu
Oct 5, 2014 12:37 PM CST

Plants Admin

Oh, right. I find 346 results for Miller. That isn't a good solution at all. *Blush*
Name: Kent Pfeiffer
Southeast Nebraska (Zone 5b)
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator Plant Identifier Region: Nebraska Forum moderator
Garden Sages Garden Ideas: Master Level Irises Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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KentPfeiffer
Oct 5, 2014 1:26 PM CST

Plants Admin

woofie said:Ah, thanks for that clarification, Kent, on the two seemingly duplicate entries.

Another thing that I find confusing is that the AIS listing I looked at showed the B. Miller entries we have as Bernice Miller:
http://wiki.irises.org/bin/view/Main/Bio/HybridizerMillerBer...
But none of the irises we have listed under Bernice Miller are in that list. Is there another list somewhere that I'm not finding?


In the iris wiki, there's no good way to generate a list based on a set of parameters. For example, you can't easily search for "Tall Bearded Irises that won the Award of Merit in 1976". It just isn't set up for that sort of thing. In the iris wiki, you would have to create lists like that manually.

My guess, when they were creating a list of Mrs. Miller's irises, they went to the iris registry, which is also online (requires a subscription) and has some limited ability to search by parameters (including search by hybridizer), and searched for "B. Miller" because most of her irises were introduced back in the 70's and 80's. But, they forgot to also search for Bernice Miller and missed her later introductions. Just a guess Shrug!

Name: woofie
NE WA (Zone 5a)
Charter ATP Member Garden Procrastinator Greenhouse Dragonflies Plays in the sandbox I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
The WITWIT Badge I helped plan and beta test the plant database. Dog Lover Enjoys or suffers cold winters Container Gardener Seed Starter
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woofie
Oct 5, 2014 2:08 PM CST
That would explain it.
So, it seems to me that if we are certain that all the irises in our database attributed to either B. Miller or Bernice Miller are all the same hybridizer, something should be done to make sure that they all come up in a search for that hybridizer. Would it be possible to include both forms of the name, so that a search on either form would bring them all up? Or am I fussing over a non-issue?
Confidence is that feeling you have right before you do something really stupid.
Name: Kent Pfeiffer
Southeast Nebraska (Zone 5b)
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator Plant Identifier Region: Nebraska Forum moderator
Garden Sages Garden Ideas: Master Level Irises Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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KentPfeiffer
Oct 5, 2014 2:26 PM CST

Plants Admin

woofie said:That would explain it.
So, it seems to me that if we are certain that all the irises in our database attributed to either B. Miller or Bernice Miller are all the same hybridizer, something should be done to make sure that they all come up in a search for that hybridizer. Would it be possible to include both forms of the name, so that a search on either form would bring them all up? Or am I fussing over a non-issue?


It's easy enough to change B. Miller to Bernice Miller, anybody (including you Smiling ) can make those changes. Although, as I said, Dave could do it all at once. I can't imagine why we would want both to list both B. Miller and Bernice Miller in the hybridizer field, though.

Name: woofie
NE WA (Zone 5a)
Charter ATP Member Garden Procrastinator Greenhouse Dragonflies Plays in the sandbox I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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woofie
Oct 5, 2014 2:59 PM CST
Yes, I know I could make those changes, but I have no idea which form would be preferable. I only brought it up because apparently Bernice Miller or B. Miller was the hybridizer for 64 irises, but depending on how you enter her name in the search field, you get either 47 or 17. Perhaps this question would be better raised in the Iris forum.
Confidence is that feeling you have right before you do something really stupid.
Name: Kent Pfeiffer
Southeast Nebraska (Zone 5b)
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator Plant Identifier Region: Nebraska Forum moderator
Garden Sages Garden Ideas: Master Level Irises Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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KentPfeiffer
Oct 5, 2014 3:26 PM CST

Plants Admin

As I said, we've fixed quite a few of the names in the Hybridizer field so that the hybridizer's name is written out in full. It' s mostly been done for some really well known hybridizers (all the Keppel iris now say "Keith Keppel" instead of some saying "K. Keppel" and some saying "Keith Keppel", all of the Ghio iris say "Joseph Ghio" instead of being split between "J. Ghio", "Joe Ghio", and "Joseph Ghio", etc.). We did that to make database searches work better.

Why haven't we fixed Mrs. Miller's? Simply because there are a few thousand others things that need to be done with the Iris Database that have been a higher priority to this point. If it's an important issue to you, there's certainly nothing stopping you from fixing it, or asking Dave to fix them all at once whenever he has the time. Smiling
Name: woofie
NE WA (Zone 5a)
Charter ATP Member Garden Procrastinator Greenhouse Dragonflies Plays in the sandbox I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
The WITWIT Badge I helped plan and beta test the plant database. Dog Lover Enjoys or suffers cold winters Container Gardener Seed Starter
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woofie
Oct 5, 2014 3:42 PM CST
No criticism intended. It's just something I came across and wondered about. Since there are 47 entries that would need to be changed if it's best to use the hybridizer's complete name, that would probably be easier for @dave to take care of? I simply wasn't sure of the more accepted format and didn't want to make a mess that someone would have to clean up later. Smiling
Confidence is that feeling you have right before you do something really stupid.
Name: Kent Pfeiffer
Southeast Nebraska (Zone 5b)
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator Plant Identifier Region: Nebraska Forum moderator
Garden Sages Garden Ideas: Master Level Irises Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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KentPfeiffer
Oct 5, 2014 4:19 PM CST

Plants Admin

That would actually be a good project for someone. The iris wiki has a comprehensive list of hybridizers with their full names. It wouldn't be difficult to create a list that included the full names and any variations in how they are currently listed in the database. If it was done in the right format, I'd imagine Dave could fix them all relatively easily at that point. Creating the list would be tedious (there has to be 500 names, give or take), but it wouldn't be hard.
Name: woofie
NE WA (Zone 5a)
Charter ATP Member Garden Procrastinator Greenhouse Dragonflies Plays in the sandbox I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
The WITWIT Badge I helped plan and beta test the plant database. Dog Lover Enjoys or suffers cold winters Container Gardener Seed Starter
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woofie
Oct 7, 2014 4:46 PM CST
What an easy (albeit boring) way to gather acorns. Almost as tedious as picking them up off the ground. Hilarious!
Confidence is that feeling you have right before you do something really stupid.
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses
Clematis Irises Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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zuzu
Oct 7, 2014 4:47 PM CST

Plants Admin

You're doing great! These will be far more useful than any you'd pick up off the ground.
Long Island, NY (Zone 6b)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
MargieNY
Oct 29, 2014 6:38 PM CST
I went to the irisregister and there were two entries, it says:
Jephtha's Daughter B. Miller 1974
Stock destroyed
Name released 1986
Jephtha's Daughter B. Miller 1974 and than a description of the iris
The names were spelled the same.
Now, to make a long story short, I was on ebay a few years ago where I came across a listing that stated the seller was the granddaughter of Bernice Miller and she was selling some of her grandmother's irises from her grandmother's garden. I contacted the seller and asked if she knew the names of the pictured irises. She did not know but was in the process of trying to track down all of her grandmother's irises. I supplied her with a list and after much research the list grew. I ran into the same problem when viewing the AIS list - B. Miller and Bernice Miller. I assumed they were the same hybridizer for a few reasons. First, it seems she named all the irises using a biblical theme, second she introduced many through Cape Iris owned by Dave Niswonger, Commanche Acres and Garden of the Enchanted Rainbow (which was probably her garden). And many of her irises were rebloomers. Bernice's granddaughter bought irises from know reputable iris suppliers in attempt to match up (id) those irises with her original irises. They were grown side by side. She spoke with and wrote to many iris hybridizers and iris gardens. Dave Niswonger supplied her with several of Bernice's irises. Through researching with the help of several fine people I found a few articles Bernice had written and shared them with her. After Bernice became older and disabled Dave Niswonger introduced a few of Bernice's Irises. And it is my understanding Richard Richard's introduced Bernice's Legacy. Here's a iris list to the best of my knowledge hybridized by Bernice Miller. Abigail Provides 1981, Adam's Fall 1972, Altar of Fires 1990, Angelic Wings 1991, Bathsheba Comes 1989, Bernice's Legacy intro by Richard Richard's, Born Again 1972, Canaan Land 1977, Celestial Delight 1971, Celestial Happiness 1989, Celestial Sunshine 1989, introduced as Heavenly Sunshine, Cloudcaps of Galilee, Cool Siloam 1980, Coronation of David intro by Niswonger 2001, Creation Twilight 1992, Deborah Dances introduced by Dave Niswonger 2001, Dorcas Lives Again 1984, Elect Lady 1989 (photo hort.net iris photo May 2003), Eve's Temptation 1972, Fires of Gehenna 1972, Gideon Victorious, Glowing Seraphin 1987, Goliath Challenged 1978, Heavenly Largesse 1969, Heaven's Bounty 1982, Heaven's Charm 1970, Jael's Conquest 1986, Jasper's Wall 1974, Jephtha's Daughter, Jubilant Psalm 1975, Leah Traded 1990, Martha of Bethany 1981, Mother Eve Smiles 1991, Mt. Sinai Aflame 1992, My Friend Jonathan intro by Dave Niswonger 1996, Original Sin 1978, Other Mary 1987, Pharaoh's Dream 1978, Priscilla of Corinth 1996, Purple of Tyre 1986, Radiant Angel 1988, Rahabo of Jericho 1978, Rainbow's Promised 1871, Rebecca Betrothed 1977, Resurrection Story 1973, Ruth of Moab 1972, Salome Dancing 1973, Samaritan Child 1986, Samaritan Woman 1973, Sarah's Laugh 1988, Second Coming 1978, Sheba's Queen, Sister Miriam Sings 1996, Sunrise in Eden 1992, Tamar's Pledge 1978, Time of snow 1987, True and Faithful 1984, Uriah the Hittie 1978, Waters of Miraba 1991, Wedding of Cana intro by Dave Niswonger 2001, Widow of Nain 1986, Wily Delilah 1976, Witch of Endor 1977.
OK, here's the most amazing thing that happened back in 2012 while trying to help Bernice's granddaughter. I only had one of Bernice's irises named Mt. Sinai Aflame. I took a picture of it, submitted it to the AIS Photo 2012 contest and the photo was not a winner. However, it was selected to be in the AIS 2014 calendar. Thanks to Bernice's loving devoted grandchild "Bernice's Legacy" lives on.


Thumb of 2014-10-30/MargieNY/b75356

Name: woofie
NE WA (Zone 5a)
Charter ATP Member Garden Procrastinator Greenhouse Dragonflies Plays in the sandbox I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
The WITWIT Badge I helped plan and beta test the plant database. Dog Lover Enjoys or suffers cold winters Container Gardener Seed Starter
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woofie
Oct 29, 2014 7:57 PM CST
Hi Margie! The reason this came up at all is that Bernice's granddaughter posted here asking for help with her grandmother's introductions. There is a thread here that she started: The thread "Seeking Bernice Miller Iris Introductions" in Irises forum

She might enjoy hearing from you. Smiling
Confidence is that feeling you have right before you do something really stupid.
Long Island, NY (Zone 6b)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
MargieNY
Oct 29, 2014 8:51 PM CST
Ha, ha - she still at it! Like I said she is a very dedicated. I did email her earlier today. Woofie, thanks for providing the thread.
Name: Gerie Biffle
Killen, AL (Zone 7a)
Tall Bearded Iris by Bernice Miller
Image
Gerie
Oct 30, 2014 10:40 AM CST
Thank You! I just read this thread. I am "blown away" by the effort ATP members have put into my project. THANK YOU SO MUCH, to all of you. I'm still overwhelmed by it all and can only process and keep up with a fraction of it. If I don't give credit where it is due, have repetitive request and questions, or just plain stupid question...please forgive me. Maybe in a year or so I will have a little "grasp" on it all. I tip my hat to you. Feel free to re-point out things to me that I may have missed.
~Gerie, Killen, AL
Bernice Miller's Grandaughter
On a mission to recollect Grandmother's iris introductions
Name: Gerie Biffle
Killen, AL (Zone 7a)
Tall Bearded Iris by Bernice Miller
Image
Gerie
Oct 30, 2014 10:48 AM CST
Oh, and thank you so much, Margie, for the compliments you posted about my efforts. I DEFFINATELY COULD NOT BE DOING THIS WITHOUT YOU!!!! You gave me my start, and a BIG one, at that! I must also give credit to my parents for their support. They live just across the pasture, gave us the land that we farm, constantly mentor us, and it's a cinch for Dad to create garden spots with his tiller attachment for his tractor. Thanks to my husband and boys for being patient with me and not abandoning or committing me when I obsess.
~Gerie, Killen, AL
Bernice Miller's Grandaughter
On a mission to recollect Grandmother's iris introductions

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