Tropicals forum: Parlor palm (Chamaedorea elegans) seeds, male vs. female

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Name: Tiffany
Opp, AL (Zone 8b)
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purpleinopp
Feb 10, 2015 9:56 AM CST
Though they bloom like crazy, this is the first time my trees have done this. IDK if it happened outside, or from a couple half-hearted, sporadic attempts of visiting the various trees and rubbing their flowers to try to transfer pollen. I still can't tell which are male or female, except this one with the ripe seeds is obviously a lady! Any tips on that?

Do they look ripe? I don't want them to fall off & be lost.
Thumb of 2015-02-10/purpleinopp/a7be8f

๐Ÿ‘€๐Ÿ˜๐Ÿ˜‚ - SMILE! -โ˜บ๐Ÿ˜Žโ˜ปโ˜ฎ๐Ÿ‘ŒโœŒโˆžโ˜ฏ๐Ÿฃ๐Ÿฆ๐Ÿ”๐Ÿ๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿพ
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Name: Anne
Summerville, SC (Zone 8a)
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Xeramtheum
Feb 10, 2015 12:27 PM CST
You might put some panty hose around them to catch them as they fall.
"Don't judge your day by the harvest you reap, but by the seeds you plant."

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Name: Elaine
South Sarasota, Florida (Zone 9b)
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dyzzypyxxy
Feb 15, 2015 8:11 PM CST
Pretty, Tiffany! I have no idea how to tell which is which, except now that you know this one is female, you can compare next summer if you remember. Write on a leaf with an indelible marker? They usually do look different.
Elaine

"Success is stumbling from failure to failure with no loss of enthusiasm." โ€“Winston Churchill
Name: Tiffany
Opp, AL (Zone 8b)
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purpleinopp
Feb 16, 2015 11:58 AM CST
TY for the replies!

http://www.palmpedia.net/wiki/Chamaedorea_elegans
Found that informative link. Obviously I've not been looking closely enough, often enough. I think I would be able to see the difference though the pics at the link are enlarged macros. I'll definitely make some indicator for the one I know is a girl.
๐Ÿ‘€๐Ÿ˜๐Ÿ˜‚ - SMILE! -โ˜บ๐Ÿ˜Žโ˜ปโ˜ฎ๐Ÿ‘ŒโœŒโˆžโ˜ฏ๐Ÿฃ๐Ÿฆ๐Ÿ”๐Ÿ๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿพ
๐Ÿ€๐Ÿ‘’โ˜€๐Ÿ„๐Ÿ๐ŸŒฑ๐ŸŒฟ๐ŸŒด๐ŸŽ„๐Ÿ‘ฃ๐ŸŒต๐ŸŒทโš˜๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒป๐ŸŒฝ๐Ÿก๐Ÿƒ๐Ÿ‚๐ŸŒพ๐ŸŒฟ๐Ÿโฆโง ๐Ÿƒ๐Ÿ๐Ÿ‚๐ŸŒพ๐ŸŒป๐ŸŒบ๐ŸŒธ๐ŸŒผ๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒณ๐ŸŒฒ
โ˜•๐Ÿ‘“ The only way to succeed is to try.
Lakeland Florida (Zone 9a)
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cycadjungle
Feb 17, 2015 10:21 PM CST
With many Chamaedoreas the female spathes are held upright and at the same time, the males hang down instead. Chamaedorea elegans is not as obvious. The females are still a bit more upright than the males, but the males shoot off more to the side instead of hanging down. When they have fresh flowers is when you need to look close. Male flowers are clustered thicker on each racille and if you look close at each flower bump, the male will have what looks like multiple flower parts holding pollen on each bump. Females are more like a single hole in the middle of the bump which is where the pollen falls into. When the flowers are fresh and producing pollen, it is obvious.
I love Chamaedoreas! I used to have breeding colonies of 40 different species back when there were less than 90 species named. One BIG secret that may help. If you plant fresh seeds right away, they sprout within a month or so. Get seeds that are even a month old, it can take 18 months for them to start sprouting, then they come up like grass seed. BTW, when they are black and fat, they are ready to pick and plant. ( just below the surface in a good water retentive medium)
Name: Tiffany
Opp, AL (Zone 8b)
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purpleinopp
Feb 18, 2015 8:44 AM CST
TYVM!

I think I took a pic of male flowers a couple weeks ago, but it's fuzzy. They have since fallen off, but I know which tree it is. 2 more racilles (TY for the word) are forming on it, I'll pay closer attention & try to get a clear pic when the flowers are open.
Thumb of 2015-02-18/purpleinopp/d52533



๐Ÿ‘€๐Ÿ˜๐Ÿ˜‚ - SMILE! -โ˜บ๐Ÿ˜Žโ˜ปโ˜ฎ๐Ÿ‘ŒโœŒโˆžโ˜ฏ๐Ÿฃ๐Ÿฆ๐Ÿ”๐Ÿ๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿพ
๐Ÿ€๐Ÿ‘’โ˜€๐Ÿ„๐Ÿ๐ŸŒฑ๐ŸŒฟ๐ŸŒด๐ŸŽ„๐Ÿ‘ฃ๐ŸŒต๐ŸŒทโš˜๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒป๐ŸŒฝ๐Ÿก๐Ÿƒ๐Ÿ‚๐ŸŒพ๐ŸŒฟ๐Ÿโฆโง ๐Ÿƒ๐Ÿ๐Ÿ‚๐ŸŒพ๐ŸŒป๐ŸŒบ๐ŸŒธ๐ŸŒผ๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒณ๐ŸŒฒ
โ˜•๐Ÿ‘“ The only way to succeed is to try.
Name: Cheryl
Kingwood, Texas (Zone 9a)
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ShadyGreenThumb
Feb 18, 2015 2:31 PM CST
My palm does this. I am going to go see if it is male of female. Thanks for that information. @cycadjungle. Some of the berries have planted themselves in the soil around the mother plant. I have lots of little babies in there, and now more berries. Makes for a lush pot of palms but one day, they will have to be divided and potted up.
Life is short, Break the rules, Forgive quickly, Kiss slowly, Love Truly, Laugh
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Name: Tiffany
Opp, AL (Zone 8b)
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purpleinopp
Feb 18, 2015 2:55 PM CST
Do you have more than 1 tree, Cheryl?
๐Ÿ‘€๐Ÿ˜๐Ÿ˜‚ - SMILE! -โ˜บ๐Ÿ˜Žโ˜ปโ˜ฎ๐Ÿ‘ŒโœŒโˆžโ˜ฏ๐Ÿฃ๐Ÿฆ๐Ÿ”๐Ÿ๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿพ
๐Ÿ€๐Ÿ‘’โ˜€๐Ÿ„๐Ÿ๐ŸŒฑ๐ŸŒฟ๐ŸŒด๐ŸŽ„๐Ÿ‘ฃ๐ŸŒต๐ŸŒทโš˜๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒป๐ŸŒฝ๐Ÿก๐Ÿƒ๐Ÿ‚๐ŸŒพ๐ŸŒฟ๐Ÿโฆโง ๐Ÿƒ๐Ÿ๐Ÿ‚๐ŸŒพ๐ŸŒป๐ŸŒบ๐ŸŒธ๐ŸŒผ๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒณ๐ŸŒฒ
โ˜•๐Ÿ‘“ The only way to succeed is to try.
Lakeland Florida (Zone 9a)
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cycadjungle
Feb 18, 2015 7:03 PM CST
The above pic looks like a male to me. The flowers are arranged in a less uniform manner compared to females. Many Chamaedoreas are obvious because the females only produce a single spike and the males are branched, but this species is not the case.
Name: Cheryl
Kingwood, Texas (Zone 9a)
Region: Texas Greenhouse Composter Plant Identifier Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Amaryllis
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ShadyGreenThumb
Feb 18, 2015 9:09 PM CST
purpleinopp said:Do you have more than 1 tree, Cheryl?


I have several palms but I don't know if they are of the same variety? But there are numerous seedlings from the one palm. Is that what you're asking?

Life is short, Break the rules, Forgive quickly, Kiss slowly, Love Truly, Laugh
uncontrollably, And never regret anything that made you Smile.
Name: Tiffany
Opp, AL (Zone 8b)
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purpleinopp
Feb 19, 2015 8:30 AM CST
Cycadjungle, TY. Just to make sure, you mean the pic from Feb 18, 2015 8:44 AM CST?

Cheryl, Cool! There has to be a pollen source (male plant) nearby for a dioceious palm to be pollinated. Either one of your trees must be a boy, or the one making seeds is a monoecious type, not C. elegans.

I'd love to see a pic of your sprouts! Did you plant the seeds on purpose, or did they just fall on their own? I pulled the seeds off of mine yesterday & sprinkled them into 2 diff pots. They had been that same dark color & same size for almost 2 mos. We'll see if anything comes up... If I can learn to recognize the male/female flowers, maybe I can get more seeds to form via manual pollination. Not that I need more palms, but it just sounds like fun to do. I'm sure they'll find a home if I am "too successful." Doubtful, seeds hate me!

๐Ÿ‘€๐Ÿ˜๐Ÿ˜‚ - SMILE! -โ˜บ๐Ÿ˜Žโ˜ปโ˜ฎ๐Ÿ‘ŒโœŒโˆžโ˜ฏ๐Ÿฃ๐Ÿฆ๐Ÿ”๐Ÿ๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿพ
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โ˜•๐Ÿ‘“ The only way to succeed is to try.
Lakeland Florida (Zone 9a)
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cycadjungle
Feb 21, 2015 10:01 PM CST
Yes I was talking about the Feb 18th pic. Plants like Chamaedorea elegans, and C. radicalis are single stemmed palms but when you buy them, they are in a cluster. The nurseries are just planting the seeds in the same pot. This means there is a very good chance that males and females are planted together, so pollination happens often. Hand pollination will certainly make more seeds than just letting it happen without your help, on average. Some Chamaedoreas rarely set seeds without help. Hand pollination will be a fun experiment. Collecting pollen is pretty easy, knowing exactly which female flowers are receptive at a given time will be trick that comes with close observance and practice. Specific flowers are receptive only a few hours on a given day, but you can see them open up, and some secrete a drop of liquid for the pollen grains to stick to.
Name: Tiffany
Opp, AL (Zone 8b)
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purpleinopp
Feb 22, 2015 11:41 AM CST
Hey, that's really cool info, TYVM! I am eager to observe & report. ;)
๐Ÿ‘€๐Ÿ˜๐Ÿ˜‚ - SMILE! -โ˜บ๐Ÿ˜Žโ˜ปโ˜ฎ๐Ÿ‘ŒโœŒโˆžโ˜ฏ๐Ÿฃ๐Ÿฆ๐Ÿ”๐Ÿ๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿพ
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โ˜•๐Ÿ‘“ The only way to succeed is to try.
Name: Dave Paul
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Metrosideros
Feb 23, 2015 7:34 PM CST
If you have F & M plants and they're flowering, they need some bugs to help fertilize.

If it's warm enough outside to place the plants out were the bugs are, and toss a few banana peels and other fruit parts on the pot, that may help you get viable seed.

A problem with them being inside and them not getting properly fertilized is that the fruiting branch may look like it has good fruit on it but often with empty or undeveloped embryo.

Giving the plant good nutrition (I think it's 2-1-3 NPK, for palms) and providing for their natural fertilization method, will help to produce good seed.


Thumb of 2015-02-24/Metrosideros/6315d0

Name: Tiffany
Opp, AL (Zone 8b)
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purpleinopp
Feb 24, 2015 9:47 AM CST
TYVM!

In the past, the flowers have usually not kept showing up after putting plants outside for summer. But for some reason, these trees have been making flowers constantly for the last 15-18 months, so they did have access to nature/critters while continuing to bloom this past summer outside. And it was the first time that I've seen the 'balls' not fall off, staying on and turning black.

๐Ÿ‘€๐Ÿ˜๐Ÿ˜‚ - SMILE! -โ˜บ๐Ÿ˜Žโ˜ปโ˜ฎ๐Ÿ‘ŒโœŒโˆžโ˜ฏ๐Ÿฃ๐Ÿฆ๐Ÿ”๐Ÿ๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿพ
๐Ÿ€๐Ÿ‘’โ˜€๐Ÿ„๐Ÿ๐ŸŒฑ๐ŸŒฟ๐ŸŒด๐ŸŽ„๐Ÿ‘ฃ๐ŸŒต๐ŸŒทโš˜๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒป๐ŸŒฝ๐Ÿก๐Ÿƒ๐Ÿ‚๐ŸŒพ๐ŸŒฟ๐Ÿโฆโง ๐Ÿƒ๐Ÿ๐Ÿ‚๐ŸŒพ๐ŸŒป๐ŸŒบ๐ŸŒธ๐ŸŒผ๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒณ๐ŸŒฒ
โ˜•๐Ÿ‘“ The only way to succeed is to try.
Name: Tiffany
Opp, AL (Zone 8b)
Houseplants Organic Gardener Composter Region: Gulf Coast Miniature Gardening Native Plants and Wildflowers
Bulbs Foliage Fan Tropicals Butterflies Garden Sages Cactus and Succulents
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purpleinopp
Dec 13, 2015 9:17 AM CST
The supposed seeds in my original pic of this discussion turned out to be a false alarm, (I realized later, after seeing some "good" ones develop.) However, this spring, pollination definitely occurred. Plants were able to get outside in mid-March, while blooming like crazy.

The result was 7 developing seeds, first noticed in May:


Which have finally ripened and been removed. So excited!! After watching nothing happen from the blooms for over 2 decades, finally, some real seeds! These look and feel (heavy for their size) like seeds I've harvested from other palms outside, though a bit smaller.
๐Ÿ‘€๐Ÿ˜๐Ÿ˜‚ - SMILE! -โ˜บ๐Ÿ˜Žโ˜ปโ˜ฎ๐Ÿ‘ŒโœŒโˆžโ˜ฏ๐Ÿฃ๐Ÿฆ๐Ÿ”๐Ÿ๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿพ
๐Ÿ€๐Ÿ‘’โ˜€๐Ÿ„๐Ÿ๐ŸŒฑ๐ŸŒฟ๐ŸŒด๐ŸŽ„๐Ÿ‘ฃ๐ŸŒต๐ŸŒทโš˜๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒป๐ŸŒฝ๐Ÿก๐Ÿƒ๐Ÿ‚๐ŸŒพ๐ŸŒฟ๐Ÿโฆโง ๐Ÿƒ๐Ÿ๐Ÿ‚๐ŸŒพ๐ŸŒป๐ŸŒบ๐ŸŒธ๐ŸŒผ๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒณ๐ŸŒฒ
โ˜•๐Ÿ‘“ The only way to succeed is to try.
Name: Cheryl
Kingwood, Texas (Zone 9a)
Region: Texas Greenhouse Composter Plant Identifier Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Amaryllis
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ShadyGreenThumb
Dec 29, 2015 11:15 PM CST
@Tiffany
purpleinopp said:

Cheryl, Cool! There has to be a pollen source (male plant) nearby for a dioceious palm to be pollinated. Either one of your trees must be a boy, or the one making seeds is a monoecious type, not C. elegans.

I'd love to see a pic of your sprouts! Did you plant the seeds on purpose, or did they just fall on their own?



Sorry to be so late with the pic. But I just happen to be sitting near the Parlor Palm. I brought it in for the winter. And it might have just earned it's permanent spot in here! Perfect Photo Op! Notice the seeds on the upper left? I will drop them into soil just for fun. These were self-planted into the bottom of the pot.



Thumb of 2015-12-30/ShadyGreenThumb/4e3a63


Thumb of 2015-12-30/ShadyGreenThumb/92276d

Life is short, Break the rules, Forgive quickly, Kiss slowly, Love Truly, Laugh
uncontrollably, And never regret anything that made you Smile.
[Last edited by ShadyGreenThumb - Dec 29, 2015 11:20 PM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #1018178 (17)
Name: Cheryl
Kingwood, Texas (Zone 9a)
Region: Texas Greenhouse Composter Plant Identifier Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Amaryllis
Plumerias Ponds Foliage Fan Enjoys or suffers hot summers Tropicals Garden Ideas: Master Level
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ShadyGreenThumb
Dec 29, 2015 11:23 PM CST
Thumb of 2015-12-30/ShadyGreenThumb/14f09a

Life is short, Break the rules, Forgive quickly, Kiss slowly, Love Truly, Laugh
uncontrollably, And never regret anything that made you Smile.

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