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Name: Kate
S Wales UK (Zone 9a)
Region: Wales Region: United Kingdom Cat Lover Sempervivums Cactus and Succulents Container Gardener
Region: Europe Butterflies Roses
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Eviesmummy
Feb 16, 2015 12:27 PM CST
I left it 2 days too late when I brought my Aloe polyphylla's inside last autumn, they caught the first frost, which affected the bottom most leaves.
I was just removing them ready to back outside in a few weeks time and I found this little surprise! I've never heard of polyphylla sending out offsets, maybe this isn't a true plant? I started it from seed 2 or 3 years ago.
Thumb of 2015-02-16/Eviesmummy/60cf56

This one is a seedling from the same time, but it's always had a flatter appearance.
Thumb of 2015-02-16/Eviesmummy/f4b85b

Also both plants, but especially the second have a slightly lighter coloration near the crown, and are beginning to feel soft. Could this be from under watering? They've been in my front porch since November, and I've probably neglected them a bit
Kate UK
Name: Hetty
Sunny Naples, Florida (Zone 10a)
Plumerias Photo Contest Winner: 2015 Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator Region: Florida Cat Lover Garden Sages Cactus and Succulents Tropicals
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Dutchlady1
Feb 16, 2015 1:07 PM CST
That is a nice surprise. Maybe @Stush2019 can offer some insight?
Name: Kate
Holmes Beach, FL (Zone 10a)
Not all those who wander are lost.
Bromeliad Cactus and Succulents Orchids Foliage Fan Organic Gardener Plant and/or Seed Trader
Region: Florida Tropicals Xeriscape
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karmatree
Feb 16, 2015 4:29 PM CST
The soft and flat appearance may be from lack of light...i.e., the leaves are trying to expose as much surface area to light as possible. The polyphylla will grow a tight spiral if given enough light. They get snowed on and all kinds of abuse during the winter...and prefer more moisture than typical aloes...My polyphylla is very happy with the ~6 hours of morning to midday sun, then relief all afternoon in bright light. I also planted it in the pot at an angle so water never sits in the rosette (this is how they often grow in situ) and planted it in a mix of coir, lava rock, pumice, gritty sand, and keep the mix moist, not soggy, and never completely dry.

As far as the offset, I simply have no clue!!! The top photo doesn't really look like the polyphylla I've seen/have, but the second photo sure does.

Here's a photo of mine when I got it in November...not the best looking plant but not terrible either...



And here it is at the end of January, looking better in the above mentioned conditions. Tighter rosette, much nicer color.





"A garden isn't meant to be useful. It's for joy." - Rumer Godden
Name: Hetty
Sunny Naples, Florida (Zone 10a)
Plumerias Photo Contest Winner: 2015 Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator Region: Florida Cat Lover Garden Sages Cactus and Succulents Tropicals
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Dutchlady1
Feb 16, 2015 7:10 PM CST
Interesting about planting at an angle. I may tilt mine...
Name: Kate
Holmes Beach, FL (Zone 10a)
Not all those who wander are lost.
Bromeliad Cactus and Succulents Orchids Foliage Fan Organic Gardener Plant and/or Seed Trader
Region: Florida Tropicals Xeriscape
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karmatree
Feb 17, 2015 7:26 AM CST
Regarding the clone/seed question
From Ecotree.net , who I find trustworthy for A poly info:

"Cross pollination produces seed which are heterozygous and variable in performance. Hybrid vigor of the F1 generation is very important to the continuance of the population of A.p. plants in their natural habitat and to assure the survival of the gene pool of plants cultivated in botanic gardens worldwide. The production of tissue clones will not produce the hybrids necessary for continuation of this species. I am pessimistic that the plant will continue in its natural habitat because the cross pollinator Malachite Sunbird was also rare back in 1977 when I surveyed the populations of A.p. Cloned plants are exact genetic copies and are all susceptible to the same set of cultural maladies which plague horticulturists worldwide; pests and pathogens that can kill your prized plant overnight. I suspect tissue cloned plants have slower growth and development in their early stages compared to hybrids. "

This care sheet is technical, but FASCINATING. Did you know A. Polys are Rightys and Leftys (i.e. some swirl left, some right), and can change their spiral pattern to accommodate the sun exposure? This is worth the read, I promise.

http://www.ecotree.net/Care&Cultivation.pdf

Here is a pic of an A Poly covered in snow. This grower has been marvelously successful and has museum quality specimens, and lives in the UK.

Thumb of 2015-02-17/karmatree/427b6d

"A garden isn't meant to be useful. It's for joy." - Rumer Godden
Name: Kate
Holmes Beach, FL (Zone 10a)
Not all those who wander are lost.
Bromeliad Cactus and Succulents Orchids Foliage Fan Organic Gardener Plant and/or Seed Trader
Region: Florida Tropicals Xeriscape
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karmatree
Feb 17, 2015 7:43 AM CST
Also, I learned the tilt method from an article by UC Berkeley's A poly propagators but can't find it now!!! But it makes perfect sense since this is often how they grow in situ.
"A garden isn't meant to be useful. It's for joy." - Rumer Godden
Name: Kate
S Wales UK (Zone 9a)
Region: Wales Region: United Kingdom Cat Lover Sempervivums Cactus and Succulents Container Gardener
Region: Europe Butterflies Roses
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Eviesmummy
Feb 17, 2015 9:06 AM CST
Thank you for all that wonderful information! I brought them inside this year as I lost the rest of my crop to unusually cold temps the year before. But judging by the the amount of growth last summer they'll probably be too big by next winter. The UK snow covered pictures are very reassuring as I'm in the UK too! I'll put them back outside as soon as the chance of frost has passed, I guess babying them might be doing more harm than good lol. Thanks again!
Kate UK
Name: 'CareBear'

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Region: Pennsylvania
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Stush2019
Feb 17, 2015 1:15 PM CST
Boy am I late to this posting. But since A. poly is sterile, needing a pollen parent, I guess their is opportunities for many different types showing up. As long as they get that tight spiraling that they are famous for. I got my last seed from China and showing pollen parents from some 9 different forms looks exciting to me. Already a few months old and getting many different forms. Also posted on my post A. poly. Picture again.


Thumb of 2015-02-17/Stush2019/bc9b16

Name: Kate
Holmes Beach, FL (Zone 10a)
Not all those who wander are lost.
Bromeliad Cactus and Succulents Orchids Foliage Fan Organic Gardener Plant and/or Seed Trader
Region: Florida Tropicals Xeriscape
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karmatree
Feb 17, 2015 6:07 PM CST
Alan from ecotree.net posted something on his FB page about a Chinese company selling fake Spiral Aloes...he says they even stole a picture of his propagation area off his website and used it one theirs!!! I will see if I can get the name of the company from him.

If your spiral aloes are killed in cold temps, they may not be true Aloe polyphylla....as aloe polyphylla in habitat endures very cold temps in the winter.

I don't know!!! I have sent the guy Alan an email with the info from this post asking for his opinion on all this. Keep you posted!
"A garden isn't meant to be useful. It's for joy." - Rumer Godden
Name: Kate
Holmes Beach, FL (Zone 10a)
Not all those who wander are lost.
Bromeliad Cactus and Succulents Orchids Foliage Fan Organic Gardener Plant and/or Seed Trader
Region: Florida Tropicals Xeriscape
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karmatree
Feb 18, 2015 7:30 AM CST
I also forgot to mention that I inoculate my homemade potting soils with American Hydroponics Companion Microbial Inoculant that I buy from the hydroponic shop here. I'm not sure if I'm doing right by that, doing it correctly or wasting my money but I have read several places besides Ecotree that proper soil microbes are very important to A poly.
"A garden isn't meant to be useful. It's for joy." - Rumer Godden

ecoscaper
Feb 18, 2015 11:45 PM CST
Hello plant lovers: I've read the thread about Aloe polyphylla and note some sane ,cogent remarks but also some "voodoo" horticulture, which is incorrect . The snow covered A.p.photo is from Clark Brunts garden, who I sent seed to in the early 90's. Don't trust any seed from China , I have sent sent several hundred seeds to 2 individuals though in the last year. Forget about the "tilt method" quoted from UCB . The retention of water in the inner crown is not directly harmful unless there is very little UVA,UVB light in the ambient spectrum for the plant, when the Fusarium fungus will infect foliage.Foliar Fusarium is not deadly to A.p.. It will cause a purple lesion on the leaf , and can be stopped by UVA. Frost will not affect lower leaf, which are predestined for retirement. This is how dynamic A.p. is. An adult size plant of about 175 leaf , will create a new leaf in the center and this leaf will be progressively repositioned to the outside of the row it originated in by subsequent new growth, requiring about 2-3 years for it to be retired. The addition of ectophytic bacteria , such as Bacillus
subtilis and or Streptomyces lydicus, will defend your plant from the Fusarium and is the single best strategy to employ for many other ornamentals.(Actinovate). I receive photos from many hobby growers who make basic mistakes and become worried. I can diagnose maladies for you. One of the FAQs I get is about tip necrosis. To understand this phenom you must accept the ephemeral nature of the root tissue, and the effect on the leaf tip. This is all normal. In the native habitat , all adult plants had some degree of tip necrosis. If only the lowermost leaf have t.n. then don't worry if you witness new growth. If the older half of leaf have t.n. then I would advise a rehabilitation procedure: dig it up and inspect, jet wash the undercrown,remove all dead tissue
,clip roots to 6" length and replant.The plant will form roots again in 30 days. In my nursery effort I must do this several times to same plant to grow it up to saleable size. The adult plants are far more stable in time .
Name: Hetty
Sunny Naples, Florida (Zone 10a)
Plumerias Photo Contest Winner: 2015 Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator Region: Florida Cat Lover Garden Sages Cactus and Succulents Tropicals
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Dutchlady1
Feb 19, 2015 4:03 AM CST
Welcome! ecoscaper! Thanks for chiming in.
Name: Kate
Holmes Beach, FL (Zone 10a)
Not all those who wander are lost.
Bromeliad Cactus and Succulents Orchids Foliage Fan Organic Gardener Plant and/or Seed Trader
Region: Florida Tropicals Xeriscape
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karmatree
Feb 19, 2015 5:49 AM CST
Thanks Alan for joining the thread! I couldn't find any photos of true A poly seedlings on your site...do you have any you could share? I have two seedlings from 6 seeds. I acquired these seeds from someone on another gardening forum through a trade.
"A garden isn't meant to be useful. It's for joy." - Rumer Godden
Name: Hetty
Sunny Naples, Florida (Zone 10a)
Plumerias Photo Contest Winner: 2015 Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator Region: Florida Cat Lover Garden Sages Cactus and Succulents Tropicals
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Dutchlady1
Feb 19, 2015 6:13 AM CST
There are some seedling pictures, Kate. I just read through the description of when the 'twist' starts and it worries me that mine is not yet showing any sign of spiraling. My plant came (indirectly) from Alan so I do not doubt its authenticity. I will take some pictures tomorrow.
Name: Kate
S Wales UK (Zone 9a)
Region: Wales Region: United Kingdom Cat Lover Sempervivums Cactus and Succulents Container Gardener
Region: Europe Butterflies Roses
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Eviesmummy
Feb 19, 2015 11:41 AM CST
Ecoscaper thank you for all that wonderful information! I guess the bottom leaves were due to die back anyway. I had two sources of seed, some a few from eBay and a packet from a seed company (not sure which one without checking) Im not sure which source my two remaining plants came from.
Kate UK
Name: 'CareBear'

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Region: Pennsylvania
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Stush2019
Feb 21, 2015 1:33 PM CST
Kate,
Thanks for the update on China seeds. The ones I grew last year and gave out were of A. polyphylla as far as can be checked. I compared them to pictures of another grower Redbeard of another garden site and they were identical to his. I had hear of 4 years before seeing sprialing. I got these guys because I liked the idea of cross poly seedlings. So maybe I got dupped? Some look like the ones I had but most don't. This time of year in my basement with artificial lights they have a purplish color to them. Never noticed that before with the last poly seeds I grew.
ecoscaper,
Hello and welcome. Thanks for the information. I take it you have some kind of nursery? You seem very well informed of these aloes.
Can these guys go as low as a zone 6. I know they are the coldest hardy ones on the market. I would keep mine in pots to bring in my basement during winter. Can we name the vendor from China?
Stush
Name: Kate
Holmes Beach, FL (Zone 10a)
Not all those who wander are lost.
Bromeliad Cactus and Succulents Orchids Foliage Fan Organic Gardener Plant and/or Seed Trader
Region: Florida Tropicals Xeriscape
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karmatree
Feb 21, 2015 5:59 PM CST
Ecoscaper (Alan) did a master's thesis on aloe poly at Cal Poly. Here's the link: http://www.ecotree.net/thesis.pdf

He was diplomatic about not mentioning the name of the company on FB, BUT .....maybe he could tell us here??

I think they probably are not Aloe poly seeds. I think cross seedlings would not be representative of the species and not give you the spiral you (and all of us fans!) are seeking. Sad

I also think the time it takes to begin spiraling is relative to the conditions of cultivation. The spiral could collapse without adequate light, I think....but I'm not confident in my knowledge to say this with 100% confidence! Ask me again after I read this master's thesis! Sticking tongue out
"A garden isn't meant to be useful. It's for joy." - Rumer Godden
Name: Patti
Australian Alps (Zone 8a)
I will never act my age.
Sempervivums Keeps Horses Cactus and Succulents Region: Australia Sedums Vegetable Grower
Garden Ideas: Level 1
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Sunlover
May 17, 2015 3:10 AM CST
Just piping in to say, I have found a partner for my Aloe polyphylla! I wasn't even looking and went to the hardware store, B-lined to the succulent area (which is always sad and neglected) and I couldn't believe my eyes, there was one on sale for $5.99 (dry as a bone, with the name on it with wrong care instructions). I think it's probably only a year old, and mine is 4 yrs old so I will have to wait a while before I can cross pollinate but YAY! Hurray!

Looking forward to seeing how it grows and when it starts to spiral. My 4yo isn't spiralling yet but it looks like it's starting.
Here's the new baby.
Thumb of 2015-05-17/Sunlover/909c94

Succulent Addict
Name: Kate
Holmes Beach, FL (Zone 10a)
Not all those who wander are lost.
Bromeliad Cactus and Succulents Orchids Foliage Fan Organic Gardener Plant and/or Seed Trader
Region: Florida Tropicals Xeriscape
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karmatree
Jun 8, 2015 6:06 AM CST
OMG !!!! Green Grin! Drooling Drooling Drooling Drooling Green Grin! Green Grin! Green Grin! Hurray! Hurray! Hurray! Hurray! Hurray! Hurray!
"A garden isn't meant to be useful. It's for joy." - Rumer Godden
Name: 'CareBear'

Sempervivums Hostas Dog Lover Irises Amaryllis Cactus and Succulents
Region: Pennsylvania
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Stush2019
Jul 30, 2015 4:50 PM CST
Well it's been some time and I just transplanted my Aloe poly seedlings. I think I may have 5 or 6 true Aloe poly and the rest is excess Aloe seeds or maybe they are hybrids? You be the judge.

Thumb of 2015-07-30/Stush2019/e030a5

Then into their own pots.


Thumb of 2015-07-30/Stush2019/cd0814
There are about 8 more potted up in another container that is too small/weak to be in the open.
Stush

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