Permaculture forum: Tropical Permaculture.

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Name: Dave Paul
Puna, HI (Zone 10b)
Live in a rainforest, get wet feet.
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Metrosideros
Mar 12, 2015 9:11 PM CST
Are there resources here for tropical permaculture?

Charter ATP Member
hazelnut
Mar 13, 2015 9:52 AM CST
Hi Metrosideros! There are a lot of permaculture projects going on in tropical areas. And of course the permaculture forest design is based on the layered tropical forest. As for access to permaculture projects in tropical places I would try permaculturenews.org, and search for the area that you're interested in. I ran across this documentary:

http://www.permaculture.co.uk/videos/tropical-permaculture-d...

India was one of the first areas where permaculture was introduced by founder Bill Mollison.

http://permacultureindia.org/permaculture-in-india/



[Last edited by hazelnut - Mar 13, 2015 9:59 AM (+)]
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Name: Dave Paul
Puna, HI (Zone 10b)
Live in a rainforest, get wet feet.
Plant Identifier
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Metrosideros
Mar 13, 2015 11:20 AM CST
Thanks Hazel,

Bill Mollison is well known in Puna.

I was wondering what might be on ATP.

Aloha

Charter ATP Member
hazelnut
Mar 13, 2015 11:31 AM CST
You are welcome to tell us what you are up to. Not many of us have tropical situations, but a lot of tropical solutions apply to gardening in the temperate zone.

Name: Dave Whitinger
Jacksonville, Texas (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Region: Texas Master Gardener: Texas Permaculture Raises cows I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Beekeeper Garden Sages Avid Green Pages Reviewer Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
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dave
Mar 13, 2015 11:33 AM CST

Garden.org Admin

I agree

Tropical, sub-tropical, southern, northern, all climates are welcome to be discusses in the permaculture forum here.
Name: Dave Paul
Puna, HI (Zone 10b)
Live in a rainforest, get wet feet.
Plant Identifier
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Metrosideros
Mar 13, 2015 12:03 PM CST
Here we had an influx of hippies pushing all types of weed legumes for several years, as a background for a permaculture gardens. I was among a few (very few) that argued that the new permaculture, using weeds, was not anything as wise as the old Hawaiian horticulture method.

Most of the hippie permaculture promoters have left the Island, including those who managed to teach classes at the community college (HCC).
Since the recent hurricane and more recent windstorms, where huge falling Albizzia trees wrecked Puna, the weed promoters have completely silenced.

The tried and true Hawaiian method (2000 years +) relied on foresting an area, dropping the trees, growing crops, then reforesting. Kukui, Aleurites mollucana was a major player in the Hawaiian food garden.
A taro patch was commonly grown for a few years, then covered with a thick mulch of Kukui leaves, left fallow for a year, then replanted again.

There were more Hawaiians living in the Islands in precontact times than there are people here today, and there were no grocery stores.
The old timers recollect on the fact that in past times, there was no money, but everyone had lots of food.
Name: Dave Whitinger
Jacksonville, Texas (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Region: Texas Master Gardener: Texas Permaculture Raises cows I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Beekeeper Garden Sages Avid Green Pages Reviewer Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
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dave
Mar 13, 2015 12:04 PM CST

Garden.org Admin

Sounds like you have a lot to bring to the permaculture conversation! Thumbs up
Name: Dave Paul
Puna, HI (Zone 10b)
Live in a rainforest, get wet feet.
Plant Identifier
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Metrosideros
Mar 13, 2015 12:12 PM CST
The Hawaiians lived in a village as a group. They did not have the postage stamp type properties that we have today.

Instead of planting a food tree in their backyard, they planted food forests to be used by the entire community. Everyone worked together. If one did good, all did good.
Name: Dave Paul
Puna, HI (Zone 10b)
Live in a rainforest, get wet feet.
Plant Identifier
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Metrosideros
Mar 13, 2015 12:21 PM CST
Thanks Dave,

Maybe a discussion about traditional methods versus modern would be a good topic.

The "new" (choke) "Korean Natural Farming" method is what everyone used to do before chemistry. Folks knew how to mulch, and how to shit in the woods.
Name: Dave Whitinger
Jacksonville, Texas (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Region: Texas Master Gardener: Texas Permaculture Raises cows I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Beekeeper Garden Sages Avid Green Pages Reviewer Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
Image
dave
Mar 13, 2015 1:12 PM CST

Garden.org Admin

Sounds good.

Let's steer clear of using vulgar words though. We're all professional people here. Smiling
Name: Dave Paul
Puna, HI (Zone 10b)
Live in a rainforest, get wet feet.
Plant Identifier
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Metrosideros
Mar 13, 2015 1:22 PM CST
Excuse me Dave,

Guess that should be manure in the woods.

Charter ATP Member
hazelnut
Mar 13, 2015 1:34 PM CST
I think we do have some Philippine posters here on ATP.
Quote: "traditional methods versus modern would be a good topic." This reminded me of one of the scenes in the first video link posted above. The cameraman is at the local cafe in Thailand--and the object is to teach locals about food forests. Then he recognizes that the cafe owner has her own food forest already producing in her yard. No lessons necessary!!

My own training is in Anthropology--focus environmental anthropology-- and of course we study a whole lot about the traditional cultures of the Pacific--especially the Trobriand Islands. But as much as I have studied traditional cultures, I don't think there is a basic study of traditional Hawaii. Poi is all I remember. I think there is one study about the effect of missionaries on traditional culture. (Not favorable).

Charter ATP Member
hazelnut
Mar 13, 2015 1:59 PM CST
Metrosideros. In the link above on tropical permaculture, they talk about planting bananas to form an interlocking web, which in turn would hold a number of other plants. Did the traditional Hawaiins have similar techniques for building food forests? Who did the work? Everybody, or mostly women.

What is "Korean natural farming" that you mentioned above. [Is that a joke?} I do watch a lot of Korean movies, and TV series. I know Koreans eat a lot of Kim Chi so they must grow a lot of cabbage.
Name: Dave Paul
Puna, HI (Zone 10b)
Live in a rainforest, get wet feet.
Plant Identifier
Image
Metrosideros
Mar 13, 2015 2:33 PM CST
Where are you based Hazel?

Most of the food that Hawaiians ate, they brought with them from the South Pacific.

The main plant staples were sweet potatoes ('uala), breadfruit ('ulu), and bananas (mai'a). Most people wanted taro (kalo), but it was not as easy to cultivate in all areas. Yams (uhi) were also cultivated for food, and during tough times ape (Alocasia) and ti (ki).
For meat, they fished, but also had pigs, chickens, dogs, and if needed, rats.

It was not as easy as going to the grocery store, but if your day is spent just taking care of yourself, farming, fishing, doing crafts, life wasn't so bad.
Name: Dave Paul
Puna, HI (Zone 10b)
Live in a rainforest, get wet feet.
Plant Identifier
Image
Metrosideros
Mar 13, 2015 2:47 PM CST
Hi Hazel,

Hawaiians planted bananas in large patches for the entire village.

Both men & women worked. The entire community would often be involved in netting fish. Men did most of the cooking. Women made kapa (fabric), often for trade.
It was the royals ('ali'i) who had a life of leisure, although King Kamehameha was renowned for working his own taro (kalo) patch.

Korean Natural Farming has been popular in the Islands as a "new" method of farming, which involves feeding plants with mulches and compost produced right on the land with nothing brought in. It is comical for the older folks, as that is what folks have been doing forever, before the chemical industry.

Charter ATP Member
hazelnut
Mar 13, 2015 7:25 PM CST
Korean Natural Farming sounds a lot like Permaculture. As I remember the Trobriand Islanders were big on yams. Their mythology featured the night life of the yam plants--the plants would rove around at night having all manner of adventures. Did the Hawaiians
do a lot of adventuring with their boats,i.e. visiting other islands, or just use them for fishing?

When I lived in Santa Barbara (on the California coast) there was a banana tree in our yard. It had a beautiful blossom, and did have one rack of bananas. The tree was about 50 ft tall--but there was only one of them. Do they normally grow in groups?

Where am I based now? Rural Alabama--zone 8. Not tropical--No citrus trees, no palm trees, but we do have camellias and azaleas.

Charter ATP Member
hazelnut
Mar 13, 2015 7:38 PM CST
There has always been speculation that prehistoric Hawaiians may have visited South America, and there is some evidence that suggests that Hawaiian visits might be more than speculation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polynesian_navigation

[Last edited by hazelnut - Mar 13, 2015 7:50 PM (+)]
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Name: Dave Paul
Puna, HI (Zone 10b)
Live in a rainforest, get wet feet.
Plant Identifier
Image
Metrosideros
Mar 14, 2015 2:35 AM CST
Thanks Hazel,

Hawaiians and all Polynesians were traders from the South Pacific, Southern Asia, and Southern America. That is how Sweet Potatoes (Ipomoea batatas) made it across the Pacific long before any Westerner showed up. The Pacific Islands did not get settled by accident. The people were looking!

Charter ATP Member
hazelnut
Mar 14, 2015 9:00 AM CST
We tend to think of Hawaii as one group of islands in the Pacific Ocean, but I can see to a Hawaiians their home is the whole Pacific Ocean. Hard for land-lubbers to understand what ocean living could be like.


Charter ATP Member
hazelnut
Mar 14, 2015 9:04 AM CST
O.K. back to specifics. Could you describe in some detail what a traditional Hawaiian village food forest would be like?
And were there any domestic animals. Well, everybody has dogs. But, pigs, sheep, goats?

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