Daylilies forum: Where do I buy Rust Spray?

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Name: Jon Whitinger
Jacksonville, TX (Zone 8a)
Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle Hybridizer Garden Photography Daylilies Region: Texas Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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jon
Mar 17, 2015 3:56 PM CST

Plants Admin

I recently noticed that I have gotten some rust in my daylily garden, and I want to know where I could buy some spray to control it. I read that Propiconazole is a good way to control it, but I want to know where I can buy it. Thank You!
Name: Kim W
Md (Zone 6a)
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kimkats
Mar 17, 2015 6:38 PM CST
Jon I found it listed on Amazon http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004GTOHZU/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pd_nS_ttl... I'm sure there are other places too, Maybe someone else will chime in.
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Name: Jon Whitinger
Jacksonville, TX (Zone 8a)
Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle Hybridizer Garden Photography Daylilies Region: Texas Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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jon
Mar 17, 2015 7:03 PM CST

Plants Admin

Thanks, I saw that several people said that they mixed it with Mancozeb. Has anybody tried this, and had it worked?
Name: Larry
Augusta, GA area (Zone 8a)
Daylilies Hybridizer
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LarryW
Mar 17, 2015 9:42 PM CST
Hello Jon, Yes, I have used these fungicides mixed together. The reason for this is to kill all that you contact with the contact fungicide and kill the remaining spores with the systemic. Unfortunately, that does not happen and some spores seem to get by and repopulate. You can also use chlorthalonil as a contact fungicide if you can't find Mancozeb.

In case you are not aware, fungicide resistance is a continuing problem with systemic fungicides, and certain fungicides are more susceptible than others. There is a group called FRAC (Fungicide Resistance Action Committee) that publishes a list of fungicides divided into groups by their FRAC code. Each FRAC grouping specifies the mode of action by which the fungicide works and FRAC recommends that no systemic fungicide is used spraying-after-spraying. Instead, they recommend that the mode of action of the systemic fungicide be changed every spraying to minimize fungicide resistance.

You can find a FRAC code list by searching for it on the internet. A new one is put out each year. You can also find items that explaining it better than I have.

For your immediate needs: Mancozeb if Group M5 Chlorthalonil is Group M3

Propiconazole is Group 3 Myclobutanil is another systemic from Group 3 that is available is most big box stores and has activity against daylily rust. However, you cannot rotate it with Propiconazole since it is in the same group

One option is Thiophanate-methly which is in Group 1. Its not cheap, but its not awful. The branded product in Cleary 3336, but there are generics if you look for them.

Only one other group comes to mind that has action against daylily rust and that is Group 11 which includes several "strobulin" or "strobin" chemicals. There are two that seem to work best against daylily rust - Azoxystrobin and Pyraoclostrobin. All of the chemicals in this group are extremely expensive and they are also highly risky for developing resistance. Let's hope that you do not have to resort to them!

There is a lot of information on the internet about daylily rust if you are willing to sift through it all. There is a lot of old material from the early 2000's, some of which has been expanded on. you might wish to look at the Daylily Rust Pages which you can find at:

http://www.ncf.ca/~ah748/rust.html

Sue Bergeron (a member here at ATP) has compiled a lot of information there which cuts out most of the duplication you will find on the internet.

Good luck!
Larry
Name: Mike
Hazel Crest, IL (Zone 5b)
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Hazelcrestmikeb
Mar 17, 2015 10:42 PM CST
Jon, @Tink3472 would also be a good source for info on this subject in addition to Larry's suggestions. Hope she have time in her busy schedule to chime in.
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Name: Jon Whitinger
Jacksonville, TX (Zone 8a)
Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle Hybridizer Garden Photography Daylilies Region: Texas Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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jon
Mar 18, 2015 6:47 AM CST

Plants Admin

I have asked her and she said that she used Propiconazole and Headline.
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
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sooby
Mar 18, 2015 6:47 AM CST
Quoting from Toxicity of Fungicides to Urediniospores of Six Rust Fungi That Occur on Ornamental Crops (one of which was daylily rust):

"The strobilurin (azoxystrobin and trifloxystrobin), broad-spectrum protectant (chlorothalonil and mancozeb), and inorganic copper (copper sulfate pentahydrate) fungicides were fungicidal to urediniospores of the six rust fungi. However, the benzimidazole (thiophanate-methyl), dicarboximide (iprodione), hydroxyanilide (fenhexamid), and demethylation-inhibiting (myclobutanil, propiconazole, triadimefon, and triflumizole) fungicides were only fungistatic to rust urediniospores.

The full article is here: http://apsjournals.apsnet.org/doi/abs/10.1094/PD-89-0255

"Fungicidal" means they killed the spores, "fungistatic" means those fungicides inhibited the spores but didn't completely kill them.

There's a Daylily Journal article by Dr. Patricia Crooks Henley on controlling daylily rust that may help, it's available from the AHS as a PDF here:
http://www.daylilies.org/RustReportFromPatHenleyFall08DJ.pdf

In the article she suggests that Compass is the most economical strobilurin fungicide for a smaller area. Compass is trifloxystrobin, considered fungicidal in the research above.

As Larry said, because of the higher potential for resistance with the systemics, you should also use, or rotate with, a contact fungicide. The contact fungicides kill external spores but won't do anything to the fungal body itself that is inside the leaves, that's what the systemics are for. Dr. Henley's article should give you some ideas. (Thanks for posting the link to my site, Larry).

An interesting study found that a single soil drench of the strobilurin azoxystrobin was effective for quite a long time: "One early-season drench of azoxystrobin at 0.12 g a.i‥/plant provided season-long reduction in disease incidence and disease progress that was comparable with foliar sprays with azoxystrobin or chlorothalonil applied at 14-day intervals. That one's here:
http://apsjournals.apsnet.org/doi/abs/10.1094/PDIS-12-12-112...

All the above are also linked to from my daylily rust info pages that Larry mentioned above.
[Last edited by sooby - Mar 18, 2015 6:49 AM (+)]
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Name: James
South Bend, IN (Zone 5b)
Hostas Enjoys or suffers cold winters Birds Seed Starter Annuals Region: Indiana
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JWWC
Mar 18, 2015 12:19 PM CST
The thread "I think I have rust." in Daylilies forum

There is good info in that thread. Domyownpestcontrol is a good source, as is Tampa Agricultural Products. I've ordered from both with no issues at all.
Name: Jon Whitinger
Jacksonville, TX (Zone 8a)
Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle Hybridizer Garden Photography Daylilies Region: Texas Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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jon
Mar 19, 2015 3:12 PM CST

Plants Admin

Thank you all for the answers. I think I will try the one that @kimkats posted, and if it doesn't work then I will try something else.
[Last edited by jon - Mar 19, 2015 3:13 PM (+)]
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Name: Pat
Near McIntosh, Florida (Zone 9a)
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Xenacrockett
Mar 22, 2015 6:37 PM CST

I'm having good luck with Green Magic cleaner mixed 4 oz to a gallon of water.

Have no desire to climb into a haz mat suit here in Florida.

Also breeding for rust resistant plants.
Name: John
Marion County, Florida (Zone 9a)
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farawayfarmer
Mar 23, 2015 8:00 AM CST
Xenacrockett said:
I'm having good luck with Green Magic cleaner mixed 4 oz to a gallon of water.

Have no desire to climb into a haz mat suit here in Florida.

Also breeding for rust resistant plants.


Can you be a little more specific - that is about the product and where to find it.
I googled green magic cleaner and all I found it an automotive product.

Thanks
John
Name: Juli
(Zone 5b)
Region: United States of America Charter ATP Member Cottage Gardener Daylilies Garden Photography Enjoys or suffers cold winters
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daylily
Mar 23, 2015 9:12 AM CST
John,
I've never used Green Magic, but I remember it being discussed before. So I did a search for Green Magic within the daylily forum.

You might find this helpful….

The thread "Rust prevention methods, please?" in Daylilies forum
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Region: Alabama Composter Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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Seedfork
Mar 23, 2015 9:58 AM CST
Xenacrockett,
Please keep us posted throughout the year on how this Green Magic is working. I am skeptical, but hopeful also.

" This stuff also seems to sort out leaf streak before it shows since after a spraying those streaked leaves will show when they didn't prior."

The skeptical part of me says, Is it promoting leaf streak? The hopeful side says it is sorting it out.

I would sure love to find a cure for leat streak, I just hate it when the foliage looks raggedy. I am buying more rust resistant varieties and hope they will also be more leaf streak resistant.
Name: pam
gainesville fl (Zone 8b)
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gardenglory
Mar 23, 2015 10:15 AM CST
I found slugs all over my daylilies this morning, Ive never had them...Oh my Blinking

Is the green magic the same as simple green I wonder.
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Region: Alabama Composter Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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Seedfork
Mar 23, 2015 11:02 AM CST
No it is different!
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
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sooby
Mar 23, 2015 11:53 AM CST
I think there is more than one cleaning product called "Green Magic". If you want to know what's in this particular one you could ask the specific seller for the MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet). As has been mentioned before, diluted dish soap was also relatively effective against daylily rust in a study: http://www.uoguelph.ca/%7Ethsiang/pubs/pdf/04daylilyrust.pdf

I don't know how the costs of supermarket dish soap versus "Green Magic" compare per treatment. In the study above the dish soap results are shown in comparison with conventional fungicides.
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Region: Alabama Composter Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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Seedfork
Mar 23, 2015 12:17 PM CST
I have had slugs and snails on my daylilies, not a lot so far, but a few early in the mornings still when I get out. I have just been spraying the ones I see and around the base of the plants with a diluted ammonia solution in a small hand sprayer 1 qt. The ratio I am using is probably 1:10, or 1:12 somewhere in that range. If they get worse I will have to buy some more Sluggo or something similar. They have done very little damage to my daylilies, but they devoured my hosta last year. So far I have seen no harm done to the plants when spraying them with this solution.
Name: Larry
Augusta, GA area (Zone 8a)
Daylilies Hybridizer
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LarryW
Mar 24, 2015 3:05 PM CST
The dishwashing liquid noted in the article Sue posted was Dawn Ultra and the work was done prior to the publication of the journal article in 2004. Proctor and Gamble still markets this product, but has reformulated it within the last 2-4 years - at least in the southeastern USA. At the time the study was done, Dawn Ultra contained an antibacterial agent, Triclosan at 0.10%. This material was the center of much controversy over the years as to whether or not it was a carcinogen. I'm not taking sides on that issue as there seems to be both scientific work and a lot of opinions/hype on both sides of the issue. In addition to dishwashing liquids, Triclosan was a common ingredient in many other products including toothpaste. Triclosan is 5-chloro-2-(2,4,dichlorophenoxy)phenol. Today, the "antibacterial" agent had been changed to methlyisothiazolinone, but there is no listing on the Dawn Untra bottle regarding the percentage in the product. This "new" material is referred to as a biocide, a preservative and an antimicrobial. While I noticed no listed concerns in a Google search regarding being a carcinogen, there are numerous references to it be being a very strong allergen. I didn't read any of the materials out there regarding tests run on the material.

The question regarding daylilies, however, is does the new antibacterial agent in Dawn have a similar effect on the rust fungus? I am neither promoting nor raising doubt about the function of this type of material in a household product. However, I would suggest that the efficacy of the reformulated Dawn Ultra in a spray program to control daylily rust is unknown at this time. While both materials are antimicrobial, we know that there are many products sold as fungicides that do not control the daylily rust fungus, so in the same manner the new dishwashing liquid additive may or may not affect the daylily rust fungus.

Larry
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
Region: Canadian Keeps Horses Dog Lover Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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sooby
Mar 24, 2015 3:32 PM CST
Rats, I just wiped some dust off my laptop and accidentally swiped the touchpad and lost what I'd typed Crying Anyway, what I was trying to say was that I'm very doubtful that the dish soap used in the study was antibacterial. There are a number of different Ultra Dawn "flavours" and not all are antibacterial. I think, but couldn't swear to it, that the "flavour" used in the study was most likely regular lemon-scented.
Name: Muata Kamdibe
Diamond Bar, California (Zone 10a)
Killing plants since 1992
Region: California Daylilies Vegetable Grower Plumerias
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Muata
Mar 24, 2015 5:09 PM CST
I've been using Green Magic that Lynn Treece makes for a couple of months now, and it works as advertised. I only had a few plants that had rust, and the best way I can describe what happened is that it dried the rust and stopped it from spreading over the entire infected leaf. As a bonus, it kills aphids. The smell reminds me of windex, but it's a lot lighter than the smell of Immunox or the Bayer 3-n-1 that I was using before. Just my experience so far ... YMMV ;)
¨You have to get up and plant the seed and see if it grows, but you can't just wait around, you have to water it and take care of it.¨ - Bootsy Collins

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